Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Floross]

Anyone have the post # where um the 4pc t16 priority list is dicussed/explained ? Or maybe if it's on EJ ? Nothing critical , obviously I'm no where near 4pc yet but I was hoping to understand why Exo is pushed so far back , given t16 2pc , and the free DS is pushed rock bottom , even with t16 4pc and DP talent picked.

[Deleted]

Hi,

Is someone able to determine the hast gear cap during the next tier (with which we are gcd capped by taking in account AoW, execution sentence or light's hammer and the 4pT16) if we assume that the mastery will have a better scalling than hast after this cap.

I saw some advise before this post and particularly Solsacra who target 37 - 40% hast but it seems me a bit vague.

I like brute data rather than approximation.

[Timmos]

Anyone have the post # where um the 4pc t16 priority list is dicussed/explained ? Or maybe if it's on EJ ? Nothing critical , obviously I'm no where near 4pc yet but I was hoping to understand why Exo is pushed so far back , given t16 2pc , and the free DS is pushed rock bottom , even with t16 4pc and DP talent picked.

I can answer why Exo is pushed back so far. We don't have the 6 second exo debeff next teir but we gain 5% buff when art of war is active on us.

[Joeseidon]

Anyone have the post # where um the 4pc t16 priority list is dicussed/explained ? Or maybe if it's on EJ ? Nothing critical , obviously I'm no where near 4pc yet but I was hoping to understand why Exo is pushed so far back , given t16 2pc , and the free DS is pushed rock bottom , even with t16 4pc and DP talent picked.

T16 2 set is on activation of Art of War so we don't actually need to cast the exo to gain a buff. Also exo will hit like a wet noodle compared to CS and Judge.

You're looking for #4215 on page 211. That's where Solsacra posted the first mention of a new rotation.

[Floross]

Thank you both , I misread the wording on the new 2PC. Exo being bottom makes a lot of sense now.

[Eon Drache]

But Ghostcrawler promised us a Pony!


See though?! Somebody gets it. That's exactly what I'm saying, why can't we just have the Ashbringer 100% of the time?

I too am happy the steps which Ret has taken and am excited to see where that furthers in the next expansion. I think that with a post/tweet we got a few months back we can expect a few bigger/dynamic changes and I don't so much mind that.

I think that Ret is one of the few specs that was built around a fundamentally broken core and they've been trying to work with it as time has gone on. Call me hopeful but I think they're onto a happy place for us.

I guess the Star Pony doesn't count then? lol The only thing I really want is a 3rd dps glyph. Or something. Atm I'm either using it for Avenging Wrath glyph or Mass Exorcism on heavy AE fights.

[Deleted]

After several tests on PTR SoO, doesnt anyone feel that T16 4set with DP is adding an insane RNG component in ret's dps, specially in aoe situations? So far ret is far from being tuned before release. All i see is patch notes where they adress dps issues of other classes (in most cases boosting their dps like crazy) while all you see with pala is how broken holy is and NO CONCERN to how rets are faring.

Last night (i could link some pharses of General HC testing) the initial aoe of the small adds on pull can either end up in 2 mill dps with a few good DP/4set procs or leave you behind at like 400k spike. I remember the days when Blizzard aborred the rng component in ret and really stated that there wont be another set bonus that added to our rng (i'm referring to LK's Divine Storm procs). But now all they seem to be doing, instead of helping our substained and aoe substained, is adding that RNG factor again.

I've been playing ret at hight standards since TBC seal swap system and to be completely fair i love it, still i am pretty annoyed at the little attention we get compared to holy spec. I feel like paladin is still regarded as healer or tank and ret is being completely neglected. A real balance of our class is way overdue. I feel like the dog scratching the developer's leg and sometimes getting a cookie just for us to stop being annoying.

What is the community's opinion? Do you like this insane RNG factor in our dps outlook for SoO?

[Alviarin]

Back at the end of Cata, I remember people being ecstatic about finally losing baseline DP in favor of some sustained DPS, because let's face it, RNG was a nightmare back then. And now, you've got people coming here and it's like "woot, DP is back in business baby, about time !". Makes you wonder ... Although maybe people are welcoming a change in their gameplay after 2 tiers.
I for sure could live without more RNG beyond the already horrible RPPM trinkets.

[Vanderhuge]

Back at the end of Cata, I remember people being ecstatic about finally losing baseline DP in favor of some sustained DPS, because let's face it, RNG was a nightmare back then. And now, you've got people coming here and it's like "woot, DP is back in business baby, about time !". Makes you wonder ... Although maybe people are welcoming a change in their gameplay after 2 tiers.
I for sure could live without more RNG beyond the already horrible RPPM trinkets.

The much improved HP generation was the change that forced this hand. Now, if we want to go back to the start of Cata before Hand of Light was implemented as a mastery...

[Jakerel]

The much improved HP generation was the change that forced this hand. Now, if we want to go back to the start of Cata before Hand of Light was implemented as a mastery...

Not to mention the current Divine Purpose, and the old Cata DP are nothing alike. It's why I don't get people argued about having the current DP made baseline earlier in the expac, and something put in to replace it. The current model of it would of just been a little bit of a boost, they easily could of reduced the proc chance to compensate for the potential OP-ness of it.

And don't even get me started on the joke that was pre-HoL.

[Deleted]

Not to mention the current Divine Purpose, and the old Cata DP are nothing alike. It's why I don't get people argued about having the current DP made baseline earlier in the expac, and something put in to replace it. The current model of it would of just been a little bit of a boost, they easily could of reduced the proc chance to compensate for the potential OP-ness of it.

And don't even get me started on the joke that was pre-HoL.

My memory has even deleted what mastery did at that time where we focused haste. Duh those dark times...

[Deleted]

My memory has even deleted what mastery did at that time where we focused haste. Duh those dark times...

allow me to refresh it: Back then, only CS generated HP. DP back then was a 40% chance on using any main combat move excluding CS to generate an extra HP. our mastery was a chance to trigger our current DP effect. the problem was that due to the randomness of the DP proc, the holy power was often wasted, especially because of a delayed trigger bug. and the mastery proc was unreliable and wasn't actually free damage, but was in the place of a normal move. and SoB only reduced CS CD.

and we didn't stack haste back then, but crit. we used haste during the 4.0 transition, because we could get enough for a 3 second CS during that irrelevant window. but after that, we stacked crit, then haste and ignored mastery. actually, I believe crit and haste were about equal, so we chose whatever we preferred.

fortunately, Blizzard listened to our complaints, gave us a different mastery and redesigned DP to incorporate our old mastery. we started stacking mastery, then crit and ignored haste.

[Vanderhuge]

I just remember hitting Twilight Highlands and thinking it was one of the worst soloing experiences I had seen in the game since Vanilla. Going from 60 to 4% crit and near 4.5 second CS was absolutely brutal, on top of the fact that the mobs were hitting hard enough to force you into using WoG. IIRC, Supplication wasn't quite a thing either, and other classes blew us away in self-healing at the time (Recoup, Victory Rush, Death Strike, etc). It was kind of like running around fighting things with a pool noodle where the only amount of help you were getting was from drinking the chlorinated pool water.

[Deleted]

I remember not being able to solo the Anzu dungeon as a fresh 85 with full 463-459 gear, whereas I cleared it fingers in hte nose while being 80 and mildly Icc geared... (251-264, and 200 trinkets)....

Good times !

[Juicy]

I guess the Star Pony doesn't count then? lol The only thing I really want is a 3rd dps glyph. Or something. Atm I'm either using it for Avenging Wrath glyph or Mass Exorcism on heavy AE fights.

Glyph of Avenging Wrath procs RPPM stuff so it isnt really that bad. :P

[Deleted]

I remember not being able to solo the Anzu dungeon as a fresh 85 with full 463-459 gear, whereas I cleared it fingers in hte nose while being 80 and mildly Icc geared... (251-264, and 200 trinkets)....

Good times !

and meanwhile, DK's were soloing ICC bosses at 85, and ICC10 bosses till enrage at 80... And still they wonder why we call them OP. le sigh.

at least they fixed how broken we were before they even released new content. our most glaring issues were fixed in 4.0.6, so we were at least decent when they released the Zuls.

but I remember playing prot almost exclusively because ret was just awful. I didn't even start to level my ret until they fixed it. and that's coming from someone who mained a paladin from the first sub day until the cata prepatch. Really, I leveled my shaman first, got disgusted at my low performance, switched to my DK and pulled 20% higher DPS with 20% lower itemlevel.

anyway, enough about that. I'm more interested to hear why Krekko thinks our core is fundamentally broken. I think ret is just fine. We might not be topping the meters at the moment, but a competent ret is competitive in any composition without big complications. Our companions may be comparatively better, but we compensate for that by complementing our compeers.

Bet you never saw so many words starting with comp- in 2 sentences

[Kragshot]

"actually, I believe crit and haste were about equal, so we chose whatever we preferred."

Pretty much; you could stack crit or haste and get equal or near equal results. And those "near equal results" were pretty crappy as compared to everyone else. Our guild's top ranked paladin changed toons and never looked back. I've stayed with the class out of a sense of stubborness...but I digress.

The haste build tended to work better on static tank 'n spank fights, while the critical build did well on moving fights as the higher chance for criticals made up for the loss of dps from moving.

[anaxie]

Glyph of Avenging Wrath procs RPPM stuff so it isnt really that bad. :P

it does? i didn't know that

[Deleted]

it does? i didn't know that

sounds logical though. RPPM triggers of every health changing event, whether it's on you or someone else. I think RPPM also triggers from lifetap, cauterize ticks and other self health changing events.

[Neldarie]

Close but no. AW glyph + hot casted via Eternal Flame both proc Dancing Steel tho.