Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Bonkura]

Because too many people think, that it's wrong to stack more than 40% haste. But it's not. They are both viable options, if you know the differences.

Then we agree. I didn't try to make it seem like it's wrong to go higher, just trying to explain what you're exposing yourself to (even if it might not have been 100% accurate, just a few examples to point out the issue).

If anyone think it really makes a big difference what you do with your secondary stats once you start getting that high in haste you're wasting time.

[Deleted]

Fully agree Bonkura.

I think that finally we are getting to the point, where we can say, what simcraft basically shows - that all secondary stats on ilvl 570+ are almost identical in a dps value.

U can do good dps going full haste up to 50%, same with ~40% mark switch to more mastery. Even going crit instead mastery shouldn't make a big difference - especially with Thok's trinket. Bigger impact on dps will have tactic used on boss, kill time, crit luck or how many aoe classes u have.

P.S. Sorry for my bad English

[Wyrden]

Hey guys, quick question:
I'm main prot, ret offspec. Currently for ret i have the galakras trinket(flex) and the shado-pan one. it's worth to change the talisman for thok trinket(lfr)?
Thanks!

[Maegor]

Hey guys, quick question:
I'm main prot, ret offspec. Currently for ret i have the galakras trinket(flex) and the shado-pan one. it's worth to change the talisman for thok trinket(lfr)?
Thanks!

Yes, lfr thok is better than shado-pan.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

The 40% "cap" discussion has always been funny to me.

Everyone keeps going on about how we are GCD capped and how bad that makes haste. Using the example of 40% vs. 50% haste, some very simple calculations show that in a 5 min fight where you are GCD capped, you'll do 20 more abilities than the guy going for the 40% "cap". Would his 7% extra mastery damage outweigh the damage of those 20 abilities? I have a hard time believing that and until I see some pretty solid evidence to the contrary and I start losing ranks to "cappers" I'll keep on running haste.

In the end it's such a small impact that people can do whatever the hell they like, but it bugs me when that "cap" is spoken of like it's the Truth.

When we first theorized the "cap" we never said it was absolute, you can go back (prob like 50 pages or more at this point) and see us talking about it. I for one said that you'd want around 17k haste but you'd want to find your own balance, if you feel fine at 17k haste, then that's fine for you. If you gain more with 21500 haste then that's up to you, like you said the difference is (very) minimal but in my opinion in a fight with all it's random factors and such you'll never get the full benefit of going drastically above 17k haste. Not claiming it's bad to go over, but imo it's (slightly) better to go with mastery.

Also how you rank depends on how you and your raid play the encounter, being rank 1 doesn't actually matter if you're cleavefesting.

[Calimon-ZJ]

Hellreaver and Halberd of Smiting (or the isle of thunder green which recycled the polearms model) match our current heroic tier real good. Yep. That's all.

[Deleted]

WoG's dogshit :< (think it was op somewhere in Cataclysm somewhere in pvp or w-e).

Throughout Cataclysm Retribution Paladins became viable in the late seasons of arena. Mainly in the last season, season 13, they were extremly viable because of how WoG and their burst scaled with higher iLvls inside arena. Their survivability was always pretty awful but a lot of the Rets out there started to play 3xDPS in 3v3. A Word of Glory with Wings, Trinket, Zealotry (1 macro yey) etc. up could heal your partner due to Selfless Healer (it was called something else back then?) from litterally 0% to 100%. It was also due to the fact that WoG had increased critical chance if your teammate was under 35%.

Hope that clears up the confusion

P.S. Just to make sure Anaxie believe what I am saying is true, I guess I need to provide some kind of profile to show my experiences in arena: http://www.arenajunkies.com/user/234378-feliclandelo/

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@Zeranox: The reason they changed how Wings worked was because it ignored mechanics such as Shieldwall, Dispersion and such and had a large impact on PvP.

[anaxie]

lol yeah i remeber killing rogues and spriests using their cds all the time. Wings were lfun

[Deleted]

Totally fine in my opinion!

Dispersion? Np. Popping Wings.

[Padix]

So my guild is very slow with progression and I won't be seeing last wing bosses for awhile and I generally only have time for LFR outside of normal raid time. Now should I go for LFR Tier pieces to get 4pc or just get normal gear off pieces and call it a day? So far we have only killed Sha once.

[epicasta]

So my guild is very slow with progression and I won't be seeing last wing bosses for awhile and I generally only have time for LFR outside of normal raid time. Now should I go for LFR Tier pieces to get 4pc or just get normal gear off pieces and call it a day? So far we have only killed Sha once.

run the LFR for the 4pc. the bonus is worth it. Also you can try to run Flex with your guild if they are having problems on normals

[Deleted]

So my guild is very slow with progression and I won't be seeing last wing bosses for awhile and I generally only have time for LFR outside of normal raid time. Now should I go for LFR Tier pieces to get 4pc or just get normal gear off pieces and call it a day? So far we have only killed Sha once.

Do you have the ToT 4set? Do you have the option to do SoO Flex?

[Padix]

Do you have the ToT 4set? Do you have the option to do SoO Flex?

I don't have ToT 4set as I came back to raiding right before 5.4. I don't have much time to run flex and our RL wants to push normals instead of doing flex.

[Maegor]

I'd get oQueue and run flex on your own if you can if your raid group doesn't want to do it with you.

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I'd also add that if your group is having trouble with normal, then flex is a great place to practice strats since all the mechanics are there, it's just more forgiving.

[Deleted]

I don't have ToT 4set as I came back to raiding right before 5.4. I don't have much time to run flex and our RL wants to push normals instead of doing flex.

Aye, definitely get some openraid flex going or something. 4set will be a nice boost for you, especially on fights later on such as Galakras, spoils, Dark Shamans, Garrosh, etc...

Other than that, just echoing what Maegor is saying

[Padix]

I'd get oQueue and run flex on your own if you can if your raid group doesn't want to do it with you.

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I'd also add that if your group is having trouble with normal, then flex is a great place to practice strats since all the mechanics are there, it's just more forgiving.

I have oQueue but a lot of the groups I see on there require a certain gear score or previous achieves in that flex wing, I'm just about at the Ilvl req that they always ask for. Plus I only get time to play when the wife works, so I'm busy playing catch up also with LFR on non raid night. Aside from trying to get flex, I take it that I should get my gloves, shoulders and helm from LFR and not bother with normal off piece items for those slots till I get the normal tier then correct?

[Rooskie1993]

Quick question:

What haste % or haste rating should I be switching to mastery over haste?

[Deleted]

Two quick questions that applies to the last tier(just came back from inactivity, made the switch to my ret, 519 ilvl).

With the t15 2pc if I get two back-to-back Exo procs do I space them out(to effectively increase the length of the debuff) or cast Exo right away and clip the debuff? Keep in mind my ilvl is only 519 so Exo haven't went further down the prioritylist like many of you with higher ilvl.

Second question, if I get an Exo proc and end up at 5 hp when I cast it. Do I try to get two TV's inside the debuff even though some of my HP-generators might be off cooldown(effectively ignoring them to get two TV's inside the debuff).

Disclaimer: My english isn't the best and I still have a Warrior mentality regarding the second question because it feels similar to colossus smash sort of.

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What haste % or haste rating should I be switching to mastery over haste?

From my understanding after reading the last like hundred pages I think many paladins make the switch at 40%.

[Deleted]

I don't have ToT 4set as I came back to raiding right before 5.4. I don't have much time to run flex and our RL wants to push normals instead of doing flex.

If you're on EU and Horde, let me know and I will get you in for our alt group that does flex. 3 hours or so for a full clear.

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Quick question:

What haste % or haste rating should I be switching to mastery over haste?

At around 39-41% and 570 iLvl you should begin to see very similar results with haste, crit and mastery. That means you simply go for the higher ilvl items and try to reforge into the 3rd stat you are missing on a certain piece. It's retarded to do sims on it all the time, even I went crazy.

[Maegor]

I have oQueue but a lot of the groups I see on there require a certain gear score or previous achieves in that flex wing, I'm just about at the Ilvl req that they always ask for. Plus I only get time to play when the wife works, so I'm busy playing catch up also with LFR on non raid night. Aside from trying to get flex, I take it that I should get my gloves, shoulders and helm from LFR and not bother with normal off piece items for those slots till I get the normal tier then correct?

Yes, get your 4pc, prioritize even lfr pieces for your 4pc over normal offset pieces. After you get your 4pc you can put whatever offtier piece in the 5th slot you want. Also, don't be worried about starting your own oq group. The time required to assemble a group will usually be less than the 30min it takes to q for lfr. Also helps if you can schedule an off time with some guild members so that you'll have a partial group and won't need a ton of fill ins.

Please note that the 14 man flex group is the biggest bunch of bullshit that has ever been taken up by the community. There are 2 fights in the entire tier where having more people above a certain amount is detrimental (and barely even then). As long as you aren't getting a shitty dps, then adding somebody will always make it easier in flex.