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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Alceus's Avatar
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    I think TESO will not have the holy trinity. Unless they screw it up so bad...
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Honestly, I'd much prefer a game that allowed you to build your own class. You get access to all the tools, but can only pick a limited toolkit. You get to customize your character completely to your playstyle.

    TSW is damn close to this (and GW2 does a decent job by giving each profession a ton of variety in what roles they can perform and how the perform them), but I haven't seen a game fully embrace it. I can understand why, it's potentially confusing as fuck and limits your potential audience to only people with a brain, but that doesn't mean I don't want to see it :P
    I suspect it's rarely done simply because such a system is notoriously difficult to balance. Unfortunately, more and more players are going the way of the 'min/max' mentality. If combination A and B is even only slightly better than A and C, then many players will just go with what is perceived to be the 'best'. It's why I'm not keen on sites like Elitist Jerks, especially when they tend to discourage people from tailoring a character build to their personal preferences and instead lure people into having the 'best' build.
    Last edited by Moonstar; 2012-07-03 at 05:06 PM.

  3. #23
    I think the main problem with many mmos is that they are sticking too close to certain formulas. That is what has brought down several because they seem all alike so people go with what has the best qualities they like in a game. The problem is so many are alike now that its hard to even justify playing one thing when there is always something similar but better right around the corner. First it was everquest then its wow and the list keeps going on and on with a new one sprouting up ever so often. The problem is they seem to generic after a while. I think the best way to make a new mmo is not to be a copy on other specs. One example is an early mmo based on the aliens series. The concept was brilliant and it seemed like it could be great but unfortunately it was in an era when technology just didnt support it. As a result the project failed miserably. Today though the idea could be done masterfully but sadly due to copywrite issues it probably could not be done. Then there is some like matrix online. The idea of being in the movie was awesome and encountering characters from the movies seemed equally awesome but sadly again engine limits and competition drove it from the market before it could fully evolve. Sadly there is a lot of ways you could improve an mmo and make it great but if you want it to be successful than you gotta make it not too generic, have an engine open for advancement, and most importantly have a considerable amount of dough to put behind it if you want the game to last longer than a year or two.

  4. #24
    Every MMO needs one overpowered class and one underpowered class, just to placate the people who like to complain.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Honestly, I'd much prefer a game that allowed you to build your own class. You get access to all the tools, but can only pick a limited toolkit. You get to customize your character completely to your playstyle.

    TSW is damn close to this (and GW2 does a decent job by giving each profession a ton of variety in what roles they can perform and how the perform them), but I haven't seen a game fully embrace it. I can understand why, it's potentially confusing as fuck and limits your potential audience to only people with a brain, but that doesn't mean I don't want to see it :P
    I agree with this. Everyone begins with a clean slate and you build your own "class" from there.

  6. #26
    the big one for me is support, some kind of buffer/debuffer type class.

  7. #27
    All of you are wrong.

    Just give them a list of skills to specialize or train, they can spend their skill credits as they see fit and be 100% customizable.

    See: Asheron's Call - the best character creation/development system of any MMO, ever, period.

    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    All of you are wrong.

    Just give them a list of skills to specialize or train, they can spend their skill credits as they see fit and be 100% customizable.

    See: Asheron's Call - the best character creation/development system of any MMO, ever, period.
    So...what a few people (including myself) have more or less outlined already?

    And lets try to be polite on the forums. Starting off a post with, "All of you are wrong" when you haven't read every post in the thread isn't a very good start.

  9. #29
    It is very hard to have organised PvE without the trinity.
    No, it isn't.

  10. #30
    I'll second the City of Heroes classes.
    Tanks were more defence than offence
    Ranged DPS had melee secondaries dps
    melee dps had defence secondaries
    Healers had DPS secondaries
    Control had healing/buffing secondaries.
    In City of Villains they mixed it up a bit.

    Tanks were more damage than defence.
    ranged DPS had healing or buffing secondaries.
    Healing had DPS secondaries.
    Control had DPS secondaries
    Melee DPS had assasination secondaries (like invisibility, cc, armor debuffs)

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Honestly, I'd much prefer a game that allowed you to build your own class. You get access to all the tools, but can only pick a limited toolkit. You get to customize your character completely to your playstyle.

    TSW is damn close to this (and GW2 does a decent job by giving each profession a ton of variety in what roles they can perform and how the perform them), but I haven't seen a game fully embrace it. I can understand why, it's potentially confusing as fuck and limits your potential audience to only people with a brain, but that doesn't mean I don't want to see it :P
    That's too good to imagine But with all the power of GW2 I must give TSW the cool factor here. You really can just make the class yourself. Definitelly something to push further in MMO genre. That being said well varied classes can do.

    Main point is instead of having 5 different mage specs the game should have battle mage, spellsword, techmage, illusionist and normal mage spec; figurativelly speaking.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeina View Post
    Every MMO needs one overpowered class and one underpowered class, just to placate the people who like to complain.
    The real trick is creating an MMo where no matter what class you play your class is underpowered and every other class is too powerful, its hard to bottle what Games Workshop miniatures games have accomplished naturally.

  13. #33
    There is no definite class(s) that has to be in a MMORPG to make it successful. The three main arc types (known as the holy trinity) should be Present- Tank /Damage dealers / healing. There are many reasons why The trinity is a must, but mostly because its easier to balance around and build content around. Now for me personally, I'd like to see another MMO that pulled off the Class(job)/Sub Class (job) roll as well as FFXI did. Tanks were tanks with some control or damage abilites depending on what Tank you chose, healers had decent heals with lots of control and some damage, Damage dealers did damage with some control and some healing. Your main Class (job) really determined your role, and sub Class (job) gave you some extra abilities to help what your main did best.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichy View Post
    There is no definite class(s) that has to be in a MMORPG to make it successful. The three main arc types (known as the holy trinity) should be Present- Tank /Damage dealers / healing. There are many reasons why The trinity is a must, but mostly because its easier to balance around and build content around. Now for me personally, I'd like to see another MMO that pulled off the Class(job)/Sub Class (job) roll as well as FFXI did. Tanks were tanks with some control or damage abilites depending on what Tank you chose, healers had decent heals with lots of control and some damage, Damage dealers did damage with some control and some healing. Your main Class (job) really determined your role, and sub Class (job) gave you some extra abilities to help what your main did best.
    All I see is image of a gamer shooting his ... and under the picture holy trinity. Tanking damage is fun ... everyone should get a chance to be the one targeted by mobs. Healing is fun if you don't do it 24/7 ... it feels good to be able to throw a heal or two for your group. And damage, everything is better with damage. The roles of healing, taking damage, doing damage are essential ... distributing roles exclusively to party members is contraproductive.
    Last edited by Repefe; 2012-07-03 at 07:47 PM.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  15. #35
    Meant to quote someone but too lazy to look who it was.

    I dont care how good any game is aslong as I can play a roguelike character.

    That is my point of view.

    Exchange roguelike with any other type of character that has been mentioned in this thread and you have the bigger chunk of MMO players and thats why MMOs with too much freedom fail. Freedom in games is nice and all but it'll end up as a chore more often than not. You need predetermined roles in MMOs and give players an idea what they are capable of doing. Giving players options is important to create good gameflow but too many options will confuse the majority of the players.
    ~

  16. #36
    a warrior/tank - always nerfed with each expansion and hated by the devs
    a ranged dps/wizard - always FOTM, always loved by devs and given the most op tools and sync with other classes
    <insert random other classes>

  17. #37
    Mechagnome Deathray's Avatar
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    Every MMO needs an equivalent to WoW's Warrior, Hunter, Mage, and Priest.
    And then you can add other classes like Shaman, Warlock, etc.
    Sweeter than yo mama's apple pie.

  18. #38
    Strong, fast and smart. These three descriptors are like the red, yellow and blue of the class system. Mix them however suits your game so you have a wide variety of colors

  19. #39
    Stood in the Fire Evisiling's Avatar
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    Summoner! and I don't mean a Warlock summoning different minions and Mages summoning water elementals, I mean a class that can summon big bad ass Aeon, Guardian Force like creatures from Final Fantasy to fight for you, i'd pretty much like to see every class from Final Fantasy V in an MMO, Berserker/Geomancer/Lancer/Bard etc.

  20. #40
    something that throws lightning or fireballs.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

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