EU rules - selling accounts is LEGAL (and other digital sales must be resaleable)

[Tomana]

Could anyone in here actually provide some sources for their reasoning where licence isn't an account? Honestly I don't know a single case where you'd have a downloaded game and didn't use an account to play it.

For starters, the notion of account isn't in the laws, while the notion of license is.
Also, remember that the ruling of EU was for Oracle vs UsedSoft and was about re-selling programs, not games, where this separation is much more clear.

[Deleted]

Could anyone in here actually provide some sources for their reasoning where licence isn't an account? Honestly I don't know a single case where you'd have a downloaded game and didn't use an account to play it.

It's really only old games, pre-2007 where 1 CD key could be used by as many different computers as it liked, but only 1 person could use that same key at once, if a 2nd person tried to login to a game with a key that is been used to play the game, would give an error message telling you the key is already in use.

---------- Post added 2012-07-03 at 04:32 PM ----------

You bought licenses for game and expansions, by this law you can now sell them without characters (chars are blizz property).
So basically if you stopped playing and you found someone who wants to play, you can sell them your cd-keys and blizz should comply by removing if from your acc and adding to a new one.

No they can't. The CD key, like any item on your character is part of the account.

[Todgruppe]

For starters, the notion of account isn't in the laws, while the notion of license is.
Also, remember that the ruling of EU was for Oracle vs UsedSoft and was about re-selling programs, not games, where this separation is much more clear.

No, it's about software, which includes well EVERYTHING.

[Tomana]

No they can't. The CD key, like any item on your character is part of the account.

I'm pretty sure that when I created my wow account in Dec 2006, I had to enter a CD key in it.
So that could mean that under current legislation you could possibly do the following:

- Ask blizzard to remove your WoW CD-key(s) from your B.Net account (this does not render the account inoperable as you can have other games on it)
- Sell the CDs and the keys to another person
- The buyer then attaches those to his own B.net account

---------- Post added 2012-07-03 at 05:35 PM ----------

No, it's about software, which includes well EVERYTHING.

Please show me a legal text mentioning the concept of account. I'm pretty sure the notion does not even exist in copyright/IP law.

[Collegeguy]

You bought licenses for game and expansions, by this law you can now sell them without characters (chars are blizz property).
So basically if you stopped playing and you found someone who wants to play, you can sell them your cd-keys and blizz should comply by removing if from your acc and adding to a new one.
This is mostly targeted at reselling games like Battlefield or Diablo3.

Blizz doesn't have to comply to foreign laws either. This changes nothing.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure that when I created my wow account in Dec 2006, I had to enter a CD key in it.
So that could mean that under current legislation you could possibly do the following:

- Ask blizzard to remove your WoW CD-key(s) from your B.Net account (this does not render the account inoperable as you can have other games on it)
- Sell the CDs and the keys to another person
- The buyer then attaches those to his own B.net account[COLOR="red"]

All I say is good luck with that. You bought the rights to gain access to a certain game/expansion. The CD key, along with ANYTHING attached or on that account belongs to blizzard. Just because a new law came out, giving you the right to sell a "license" of a game, doesn't mean you can just go around selling other peoples property for the fun of it.

[Tastyfish]

Expect a lot of noise on this from EA, Microsoft, Activision and others. They will find a loophole. They always do.

If Microsoft gets angry Military contracts go unfilled, people get worried, things change.

[ComputerNerd]

According to the terms of use, we are paying for the service not the account itself.
Therefore we have nothing to sell.
The account is a perk associated with the service, and not the product we are paying for in the first place.

[Deleted]

i am actually wondering how this would influence the income of publishers and their funds to make new games. Cause with this they will earn less money from their games. Imo buying 2nd hand games is as bad as pirating.

[Deleted]

According to the terms of use, we are paying for the service not the account itself.
Therefore we have nothing to sell.
The account is a perk associated with the service, and not the product we are paying for in the first place.

I was trying to find a way to express this. You did it perfectly. Pretty much end of the discussion here.

[Tomana]

i am actually wondering how this would influence the income of publishers and their funds to make new games. Cause with this they will earn less money from their games. Imo buying 2nd hand games is as bad as pirating.

They will move to sub-based services (and a lot already are).
As for buying 2nd hand games (games, not accounts ), it should imo be allowed.

---------- Post added 2012-07-03 at 05:48 PM ----------

I was trying to find a way to express this. You did it perfectly. Pretty much end of the discussion here.

You pay for the service, yeah, but the CD and its key is something separate. So technically, and assuming the EU ruling makes it somehow into the national laws, it could be allowed to re-sell CD keys one day

[Todgruppe]

According to the terms of use, we are paying for the service not the account itself.
Therefore we have nothing to sell.
The account is a perk associated with the service, and not the product we are paying for in the first place.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the ToU are illegal in the EU. You can't sell a product AND then tell them how they have to use it (which is much more reasonable).

Please show me a legal text mentioning the concept of account. I'm pretty sure the notion does not even exist in copyright/IP law.

Wasn't why I quoted, you said programs. The law targets software, which includes everything stored electronically.

i am actually wondering how this would influence the income of publishers and their funds to make new games. Cause with this they will earn less money from their games. Imo buying 2nd hand games is as bad as pirating.

Publishers don't make games, they are outdated pieces of crap carried over from the Movie/Music industry. They..... wait for it.... publish the game, they don't make anything. They also, in some cases, are do marketing. But yeah fuck publishers.

[Tanthalus]

as some one said on another forum:

I don't think this would have much affect on a game like World of Warcraft, since a subscription to an online service is different from a copy of a game. However, it might affect questions like this one:http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2009/0...-is-troubling/

[Deleted]

You pay for the service, yeah, but the CD and its key is something separate. So technically, and assuming the EU ruling makes it somehow into the national laws, it could be allowed to re-sell CD keys one day

Apart from been wrong, let me describe a scenario to you

Customer wants to sell his Cataclysm CD key, but the customer is level 85, with full DS HC gear. This means blizzard will have to find a way to individually downgrade the account, give him the appropriate gear, remove everything linked to cata from his account. This is a lot of work and one, which blizzard will not be doing, and like someone previously stated, Blizzard is a US company, this law only applies to companies that are based solely in the EU.

The CD key is linked to an account owned by Blizzard, therefore the CD key becomes property of Blizzards, They don't have to do anything in accordance to this law.

[Gamdwelf]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the ToU are illegal in the EU. You can't sell a product AND then tell them how they have to use it (which is much more reasonable).



Wasn't why I quoted, you said programs. The law targets software, which includes everything stored electronically.



Publishers don't make games, they are outdated pieces of crap carried over from the Movie/Music industry. They..... wait for it.... publish the game, they don't make anything. They also, in some cases, are do marketing. But yeah fuck publishers.

Well they are selling you a product, the discs that the game came on, and you can do whatever you want with it.

"your" account is a service and they can tell you how you get to use that rental service basically.

[Tanthalus]

.This is a lot of work and one, which blizzard will not be doing, and like someone previously stated, Blizzard is a US company, this law only applies to companies that are based solely in the EU.

doesnt work like that - you have an office in the EU = you are bound by there laws.

[GrahamC]

As always with the internet, lots of opinion (as expressed here in good faith) that means squat. This will have to be proven by a test case. In the Eu at least even the EULAs used could be challenged under fair contract laws.

[Tomana]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the ToU are illegal in the EU.

It's an incredibly complicated question, and most lawyers I dealt with on the subject (because this topic has a direct relationship with my work) have different views on the matter. However, they all agree that the "basic" parts of an EULA (e.g. the fact that you don't own anything) are not in contradiction with local IP legislation and are valid. This, however, with a bemol that we're talking about industrial stuff here, where you actually sign a contract before buying the boxes, so the interpretation for a guy buying a game may be different again.

Wasn't why I quoted, you said programs. The law targets software, which includes everything stored electronically.

Intellectual property and licenses is not just about programs and software.

[Nuckels]

Even if it is legal to sell your account details, its also legal for blizzard to kill the account for w/e reason they wish, so this entire "possible" legalisation changes nothing.

[Todgruppe]

Well they are selling you a product, the discs that the game came on, and you can do whatever you want with it.

"your" account is a service and they can tell you how you get to use that rental service basically.

I'm aware about WoW, but what about SC2 or D3, if you link it to your b.net, I don't know if you can then split it off.

Hopefully, this is the start of something wonderful, destruction of DRM, but I doubt. Here's to hoping though.