MMO-Champion Ultimate Showdown Rnd. 2 Match 8: Ganon vs. Dr. Manhattan

[Powerogue]

assuming it's to the DEATH, Ganon obviously wins. We must have beaten up that guy a hundred times now, he just gets back up. Can't kill the unkillable.

Dr. Manhattan is more powerful, obviously, but at this point he could atomize Ganon and we'd still just see him get back up dramatically just off-screen and teleport off.

[Byniri]

I'm assuming that Dr Manhattan could just change reality to make himself able to kill Ganon. He would predetermine all of Ganon's attacks.

I don't see any way that Ganon wins. Heck, I don't see anyway that ANYONE can beat Dr Manhattan. He can manipulate matter an everything that exists. If he wanted, be could probably annihilate Ganon completely in a heartbeat, screw prophecies.

[Jim the mage]

Well Demise's hate can never die so even if Manhattan did somehow defeat Ganondorf, he would still live in one form or another but seeing Manhattan is also god-like I can honestly say this would be a stalemate.

[Boogums]

You don't need to "harm" Ganon. All you need to do is deconstruct him on a molecular level.

[Caiada]

Well Demise's hate can never die so even if Manhattan did somehow defeat Ganondorf, he would still live in one form or another but seeing Manhattan is also god-like I can honestly say this would be a stalemate.

I'm going to propose a hypothetical situation only slightly based in reality that I think explains why this logic is bad.

We have two characters. Kyubey, the immortal space-cat thing from that anime I don't watch. Can't die but doesn't seem incredibly powerful on the scale of Sauron or a DBZ guy or whatever. The other character is Iron Man, with the Space Gem. I'm pretty sure with that Gem he can move anything he wants into any configuration he wants.

Kyubey can't do anything to Iron Man, feasibly. He's a walking god of defense. Iron Man can't kill Kyubey because it's immortal. How do you resolve this?

Iron Man seals Kyubey in a block of incredibly dense matter hundreds of miles thick. Just leaves it there for all the time. But Kyubey doesn't die! Too bad, it can't reasonably fight anything, ever again. Iron Man wins.

Substitute names where appropriate, and I think my point's pretty clear.

[OrcsRLame]

I'm assuming that Dr Manhattan could just change reality to make himself able to kill Ganon. He would predetermine all of Ganon's attacks.

I don't see any way that Ganon wins. Heck, I don't see anyway that ANYONE can beat Dr Manhattan. He can manipulate matter an everything that exists. If he wanted, be could probably annihilate Ganon completely in a heartbeat, screw prophecies.

Doctor Manhattan can't change reality, he can only manipulate molecules. I do agree though that there's no way Ganon can win.

[Jim the mage]

I'm going to propose a hypothetical situation only slightly based in reality that I think explains why this logic is bad.

We have two characters. Kyubey, the immortal space-cat thing from that anime I don't watch. Can't die but doesn't seem incredibly powerful on the scale of Sauron or a DBZ guy or whatever. The other character is Iron Man, with the Space Gem. I'm pretty sure with that Gem he can move anything he wants into any configuration he wants.

Kyubey can't do anything to Iron Man, feasibly. He's a walking god of defense. Iron Man can't kill Kyubey because it's immortal. How do you resolve this?

Iron Man seals Kyubey in a block of incredibly dense matter hundreds of miles thick. Just leaves it there for all the time. But Kyubey doesn't die! Too bad, it can't reasonably fight anything, ever again. Iron Man wins.

Substitute names where appropriate, and I think my point's pretty clear.

Basically you're saying this just comes down to which character is more over powered?

[Nadev]

Basically you're saying this just comes down to which character is more over powered?

I think he's arguing that one of the characters can't win or lose; just removed from the fight.

[Caiada]

Basically you're saying this just comes down to which character is more over powered?

Contrary to popular opinion, no.

This kind of oversimplification is exactly why I don't bother with these threads most of the time.

[Byniri]

Not sure how Ganon is getting this many votes. Lotta Zelda fans here?

[Deleted]

Not sure how Ganon is getting this many votes. Lotta Zelda fans here?

Wow. Dr. Manhattan fanvboy much?

[OrcsRLame]

Wow. Dr. Manhattan fanvboy much?

He didn't seem like a fanboy to me, just confused. And confusion at Ganon getting votes against Doctor Manhattan is understandable. Doctor Manhattan is extremely powerful, and Ganon has never fought anything even close to his level of power. I mean, besides being almost impossible to kill, the guy could make a galaxy and throw it at you with a thought. Add to that that most people actually think even more highly of him than he deserves, (as many people think he can change reality, time travel, and has no weaknesses) and it's understandable that there's some confusion about him only being about 10 votes ahead of a relatively weak video game character.

And we do have a lot of Zelda fans here, a LOT. Personally, I am also a Zelda fan, and I dislike Watchmen, but I won't vote for something that I think would lose.

[Enstorged]

I dont see how manhattan could lose against ANYTHING..
MAYBE you can't kill Ganon without this so called master sword.. but then again.. did he ever fight anything else than Link !?
Lore is Lore.. i get it.. but when some1 created Ganon i'm sure they didn't consider him fighting something as powerful as manhattan..
if you guys RLY INSIST that he needs the master sword... then it's a draw i guess.. or well Dr. manhattan COULD just like teleport ganon X amounts of trillion miles away and he would win on a technicalityi guess... i dont know much about manhattan other than what i saw in the watchmen movie... but i think that was enough to clearify that he CAN'T die.. and i can't rly think of anything more powerful than him.. maybe there is something more powerful or at equal power.. but that just means it's an instant Draw cuz he cant freekin die!

[Lysah]

Not sure how Ganon is getting this many votes. Lotta Zelda fans here?

D.M. - wannabe deity who might have a lot of power, for sure, but still has a start and therefore an end
Ganon - actual deity who for all we know literally cannot be stopped

[Caiada]

D.M. - wannabe deity who might have a lot of power, for sure, but still has a start and therefore an end
Ganon - actual deity who for all we know literally cannot be stopped

Calling Dr. Manhattan a wannabe deity is... I won't bother.

Ganon's stopped for extended periods all the time.

[OrcsRLame]

I dont see how manhattan could lose against ANYTHING..
MAYBE you can't kill Ganon without this so called master sword.. but then again.. did he ever fight anything else than Link !?
Lore is Lore.. i get it.. but when some1 created Ganon i'm sure they didn't consider him fighting something as powerful as manhattan..
if you guys RLY INSIST that he needs the master sword... then it's a draw i guess.. or well Dr. manhattan COULD just like teleport ganon X amounts of trillion miles away and he would win on a technicalityi guess... i dont know much about manhattan other than what i saw in the watchmen movie... but i think that was enough to clearify that he CAN'T die.. and i can't rly think of anything more powerful than him.. maybe there is something more powerful or at equal power.. but that just means it's an instant Draw cuz he cant freekin die!

Well, as I've said countless times throughout these threads, (and I'm sure the people that have been here for every thread are getting sick of it by now) Doctor Manhattan is powerful, but he's not unbeatable. He's actually not even the strongest being in DC. Doctor Manhattan just happens to come from a franchise that's pretty much built on being overpowered. Darkseid and Superman could both take him for sure. Note Darkseid's powers. http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Uxas_%28New_Earth%29#Powers All of Doctor Manhattan's powers are just a sub power for Darkseid's main power.

[Lysah]

Ganon's stopped for extended periods all the time.

Is he?

Or is that what Ganon wants us to think?

[Tyratops]

Could Dr. Manhatten not create the chosen hero to wield the master sword? to then defeat Ganon.

[OrcsRLame]

Could Dr. Manhatten not create the chosen hero to wield the master sword? to then defeat Ganon.

He could create an exact physical duplicate of Link, (he would even have the knowledge to do so, as he would be able to see Ganon's entire life, past, present and future, just by looking at him) but one could argue that the Link he creates would lack the same (or any) soul as the original. Do any of the Zelda games specifically mention that characters have souls?

Doctor Manhattan could even turn himself into Link, even copying his mannerisms exactly.

[Caiada]

Is he?

Or is that what Ganon wants us to think?

Yes, he is. It's kind of the point.