MMO-Champion Ultimate Showdown Rnd. 2 Match 8: Ganon vs. Dr. Manhattan

[Duruka]

He could create an exact physical duplicate of Link, (he would even have the knowledge to do so, as he would be able to see Ganon's entire life, past, present and future, just by looking at him) but one could argue that the Link he creates would lack the same (or any) soul as the original. Do any of the Zelda games specifically mention that characters have souls?

Doctor Manhattan could even turn himself into Link, even copying his mannerisms exactly.

I don't think that would work. Link is so special because he's blessed by the goddesses. I suppose he could just create exact copies of the goddesses too, but I'm not sure if they'd have the same powers.

[Caiada]

I don't think that would work. Link is so special because he's blessed by the goddesses. I suppose he could just create exact copies of the goddesses too, but I'm not sure if they'd have the same powers.

Given that Manhattan wouldn't know the first thing about magic, it's safe to assume that no, he would not be able to make an effective Link for this scenario.

[OrcsRLame]

Given that Manhattan wouldn't know the first thing about magic, it's safe to assume that no, he would not be able to make an effective Link for this scenario.

I agree with you, but there's one problem with that line of reasoning. Doctor Manhattan has extreme potential for growth. It's likely that just looking at a magical being would give him full understanding of magic, as he would then know what to look for. Then it's just a simple matter of looking through all of time and space until he learns everything.

The question then becomes, is understanding enough? He would still just have his genius intellect and his manipulation of physical matter. In some settings that's not enough to perform magic. I suppose it would then depend on if magic is classified as an unknown science with its own rules, or if it comes from the soul.

I'm over thinking this shit. I need sleep.

[Lysah]

Yes, he is. It's kind of the point.

That's just what he wants you to think!

You lack vision my friend.

[zorg]

Only the chosen hero can wield the Master Sword.

Who says he has to wield it?, simply teleport gannon and impale him upon the sword would suffice.

[Letmesleep]

Who says he has to wield it?, simply teleport ganon and impale him upon the sword would suffice.

Works for me. I've seen Watchmen...Dr. Manhattan is essentially God. Ganon doesn't get to escape on a magical sword technicality.

[Byniri]

The big problem with these threads is that most of the universes these characters take place in are totally different.

What if characters were stronger/weaker in other universes?

[Sam the Wiser]

I have a feeling Dr. Manhattan going to get all the way to end just cause he can blow people up.

[dokilar]

at this late stage of the game dr. manhattan is prolly the only one who could give goku/gohan a run for their money

[Letmesleep]

at this late stage of the game dr. manhattan is prolly the only one who could give goku/gohan a run for their money

It'll definitely come down to Manhattan vs Goku. I've yet to hear a real way to kill Manhattan, but I'm sure Goku will still win somehow just because he's so freaking powerful. I'd probably still vote for Manhattan unless there's something I haven't thought of, which is probable.

[OrcsRLame]

It'll definitely come down to Manhattan vs Goku. I've yet to hear a real way to kill Manhattan, but I'm sure Goku will still win somehow just because he's so freaking powerful. I'd probably still vote for Manhattan unless there's something I haven't thought of, which is probable.

Destroying Doctor Manhattan's soul would kill him. Just like how Superman killed Darkseid in Final Crisis vol 7. And considering Goku can shatter dimensions, kill gods, destroy the universe, and resist the Black Star Dragon Balls, I just don't see soul destruction as something that's out of his reach.

[Letmesleep]

Destroying Doctor Manhattan's soul would kill him. Just like how Superman killed Darkseid in Final Crisis vol 7. And considering Goku can shatter dimensions, kill gods, destroy the universe, and resist the Black Star Dragon Balls, I just don't see soul destruction as something that's out of his reach.

I hear you on shattering dimensions, which is kind of an abstract thing to be able to destroy, but most of the gods and stuff had mortal forms didn't they? I haven't seen all of GT (currently watching it on nicktoons). A soul is invisible, where as all the things you mentioned that Goku can destroy all have corporeal forms or actual mass. You can't really destroy a soul without destroying a body, and Manhattan can't really be destroyed. How would he pull that off?

[OrcsRLame]

I hear you on shattering dimensions, which is kind of an abstract thing to be able to destroy, but most of the gods and stuff had mortal forms didn't they? I haven't seen all of GT (currently watching it on nicktoons). A soul is invisible, where as all the things you mentioned that Goku can destroy all have corporeal forms or actual mass. You can't really destroy a soul without destroying a body, and Manhattan can't really be destroyed. How would he pull that off?

I'm guessing Goku could shoot a huge energy wave in his general direction, collapsing the dimension and destroying all matter in the universe if necessary. Spoiler for the end of GT, Goku absorbs the Dragon Balls at the end of the series, and as we see in the TV special, A Hero's Legacy, he seems to have unlimited usage of them. So that could help with locking down Doctor Manhattan. And since Doctor Manhattan's abilities, even his ability to replicate himself, are all based on matter manipulation, that would shut him down nicely.

Also, Doctor Manhattan's body can totally be destroyed, he's just never run into anything with the power to do so. He has the classic DC invulnerability super power. Same shit that Superman, Darkseid, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, and countless other DC superheroes have. Doctor Manhattan just seems really OP because Watchmen takes place in a DC universe with no other superheroes, and the greater cosmic entities generally keep to themselves. If Doctor Manhattan is ever written into New Earth continuity though he will very quickly find himself outmatched by a great many things, Superman included.

Really, when you break it down, Doctor Manhattan is just a 12th level intellect with invulnerability and matter manipulation. And DC has this sort of unwritten rule where Class 100+ cosmic entities with the super strength power cancel out each others invulnerability powers.

[Darth-Piekus]

It's a very hard decision. Both seem equal. I though have chosen Ganondorf cause I really dont know much about Dr. Manhattan.

[OrcsRLame]

It's a very hard decision. Both seem equal. I though have chosen Ganondorf cause I really dont know much about Dr. Manhattan.

His powers are actually fairly simple. Basically, he can do anything with physical matter that you can possibly imagine, and he can see through space and time.

[Letmesleep]

I'm guessing Goku could shoot a huge energy wave in his general direction, collapsing the dimension and destroying all matter in the universe if necessary. Spoiler for the end of GT, Goku absorbs the Dragon Balls at the end of the series, and as we see in the TV special, A Hero's Legacy, he seems to have unlimited usage of them. So that could help with locking down Doctor Manhattan. And since Doctor Manhattan's abilities, even his ability to replicate himself, are all based on matter manipulation, that would shut him down nicely.

Also, Doctor Manhattan's body can totally be destroyed, he's just never run into anything with the power to do so. He has the classic DC invulnerability super power. Same shit that Superman, Darkseid, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, and countless other DC superheroes have. Doctor Manhattan just seems really OP because Watchmen takes place in a DC universe with no other superheroes, and the greater cosmic entities generally keep to themselves. If Doctor Manhattan is ever written into New Earth continuity though he will very quickly find himself outmatched by a great many things, Superman included.

Really, when you break it down, Doctor Manhattan is just a 12th level intellect with invulnerability and matter manipulation. And DC has this sort of unwritten rule where Class 100+ cosmic entities with the super strength power cancel out each others invulnerability powers.

Hmm, well you seem to know more about it than I do, so I'm going to concede the win to Goku. Yeah if Goku can just destroy all the matter around Manhattan, he has nothing to manipulate. Manhattan seemed more powerful due to his ability to create, but that's not what this competition is about; it's about what a character can destroy. Goku is OP xD On a side note, I didn't know Manhunter was invulnerable.

[OrcsRLame]

Hmm, well you seem to know more about it than I do, so I'm going to concede the win to Goku. Yeah if Goku can just destroy all the matter around Manhattan, he has nothing to manipulate. Manhattan seemed more powerful due to his ability to create, but that's not what this competition is about; it's about what a character can destroy. Goku is OP xD On a side note, I didn't know Manhunter was invulnerable.

Uh, thanks, I think.

Yeah though, all the main members of the JLA are invulnerable, except for Wonder Woman and Batman. And even then, Wonder Woman can only be easily damaged by piercing objects, and her bracers are more invulnerable than Superman, so that counts for something.

[Letmesleep]

Uh, thanks, I think.

Yeah though, all the main members of the JLA are invulnerable, except for Wonder Woman and Batman. And even then, Wonder Woman can only be easily damaged by piercing objects, and her bracers are more invulnerable than Superman, so that counts for something.

Wait, Flash isn't invulnerable though right? And Green Lantern is? And Hawkgirl? Maybe I don't know which are the main members of JL.

Batman rocks though. He'd freaking own Goku with like...wits...and stuff....IT COULD HAPPEN.

[OrcsRLame]

Wait, Flash isn't invulnerable though right? And Green Lantern is? And Hawkgirl? Maybe I don't know which are the main members of JL.

Batman rocks though. He'd freaking own Goku with like...wits...and stuff....IT COULD HAPPEN.

I always forget about Flash, maybe because he got vaporized by the Anti-Monitor. Green Lantern is invulnerable as long as he's got his energy field up. Hawkgirl is only a main member in some continuities. She's generally considered to be a side character.

[Pendulous]

Dr. Manhattan wins, new ones up in a bit.