dps help please :D

[nghtmr]

i have been unholy for about a month now and my dps went up from when i was frost, but i still think i could do way better dps. i just don't know what i'm doing wrong. If you could give me some pointers or even criticism, it would be very helpful.

Here is a WoL link http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=8242&e=8558 (it's from a failed attempt at H ultra because we were 22manning it) and an armory link http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...riene/advanced.

[Vereesa]

One thing that caught my eye was your Gargoyle's DPS. Are you sure you're using it with RotFC and a Potion up? Also, your Gurthalak didn't proc which can add a few thousand effective DPS depending on the number of procs.

Other than that, though, nothing else really stood out when I quickly glanced over the log. Your DT uptime also seems okay.

As for your gear: Make sure you always use all 3 of your Chimera's Eyes. Your reforging does seem a bit off, so I'd suggest using Wowreforge or another similar application to sort it out.

[Varyk]

Your disease uptime is a lot lower than it should be (98% at least), you didn't use a potion. you aren't using AMS to fill RP enough. even if you're taking a hour of twilight u can use it in between.

are u reapplying your diseases after your procs are all up? (Plague Strike/Frost Fever first, then Outbreak when your stuff is proc'd) they will do more damage this way.

are you using DnD? (it doesn't hit Ultraxion)

the only reason I ask is our attempt was a whole minute shorter and we had the same number of Scourge Strikes. I only have .11% more haste than you, which isn't the difference.

here is a log from a kill last week for you to compare http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...?s=4078&e=4335

I'm BiS so my dmg will obv be much higher, but the other numbers (percentages and uptimes) are still comparable.

[nghtmr]

One thing that caught my eye was your Gargoyle's DPS. Are you sure you're using it with RotFC and a Potion up? Also, your Gurthalak didn't proc which can add a few thousand effective DPS depending on the number of procs.

As for your gear: Make sure you always use all 3 of your Chimera's Eyes.

i was using gargoyle with UF and heroism at the start of the fight and then again after it came back up off cd around HoT 5

my guild stands all the back where the crystals spawn so gurth procing won't happen i don't think because we stand so far back

i just got tier shoulders and vp helm tuesday night around 4am which was after that raid and my other shoulders had a chim in it and i was going to replace a 40str for it. just forgot

Your disease uptime is a lot lower than it should be (98% at least), you didn't use a potion. you aren't using AMS to fill RP enough. even if you're taking a hour of twilight u can use it in between.

are u reapplying your diseases after your procs are all up? (Plague Strike/Frost Fever first, then Outbreak when your stuff is proc'd) they will do more damage this way.

are you using DnD? (it doesn't hit Ultraxion)

the only reason I ask is our attempt was a whole minute shorter and we had the same number of Scourge Strikes. I only have .11% more haste than you, which isn't the difference.

i know i didn't use a potion i had 5 left and i should of used it with hero... or with the 2nd gargoyle i'm taking 2 HoT's 2 and 5 but i can see where i have 3entire HoT's where i could use ams for more rp

i was starting with outbreak at the beginning of the fight just because i can outbreak fester twice SS twice and have the rp for gargoyle before the mage pops hero which i think affects gargoyle. i do use outbreak later on in the fight to reapply dieases but i can't really tell atm if my proc's are proc'd because unless i stare at my buff's it would be impossible. i'll make a powa for most of them and put them near the 4p set bonus one i made when i was frost.

i was not using DnD at all, it might be because i can't find a spot to use blood tap just because it ruins both blood/frost runes coming up at the same time so i can just fester asap instead of waiting

thank you for the tips if anyone has anything more to say that they can see it would be very helpful

[Vereesa]

i was using gargoyle with UF and heroism at the start of the fight and then again after it came back up off cd around HoT 5

Good that you mentioned it, I completely forgot to check that. Never overlap Hero/BL with UF unless you're certain you can't get the full benefit out of both (i.e the encounter lasting less than 70 seconds) or if using UF later (after Hero) means you won't get a second one.

my guild stands all the back where the crystals spawn so gurth procing won't happen i don't think because we stand so far back

I can understand that the healers'd want to stay near them, but standing so far back hurts many classes' DPS quite heavily. (Gurths not proccing, Searing Totems failing, Combat Rogues' Killing Spree being borderline unusable, all casters having a travel time of over 9000 minutes etc.)

[nghtmr]

Good that you mentioned it, I completely forgot to check that. Never overlap Hero/BL with UF unless you're certain you can't get the full benefit out of both (i.e the encounter lasting sell than 70 seconds) or if using UF later (after Hero) means you won't get a second one.

I can understand that the healers'd want to stay near them, but standing so far back hurts many classes' DPS quite heavily. (Gurths not proccing, Searing Totems failing, Combat Rogues' Killing Spree being borderline unusable, all casters having a travel time of over 9000 minutes etc.)

i never knew that hmm alright that'll increase my dps abit not using UF with hero. i think with the time we had 5:16 i should be able to use it a 2nd time with gargoyle still

as for the dps lost we don't have combat rogues or enhancement shamans idk if it hurts ele shamans that much but we only have the one and he was healing that WoL link i posted. i'll ask if we could stand alittle bit closer for tonight

[vortextk]

If you start with bloodlust, use frenzy right after the first hour hits. It is a dps "increase" to use both over using only one, but it is also an increase to use them separately over together because you just get rune capped and waste resources.

Are you using AMZ for your group's soak? AMZ+AMS do not work together so don't save ams for hour of twilights if you have to amz your group anyway. You should have AMS nearly on cooldown. With it glyphed and correct timing, you can soak 2 regular blasts from ultraxion in one cast. What this means, is 2 full bars of runic power. Now you could be at like 30 runic power when you first use it, and only get off like 2 death coils or something by the time he casts again(on the same ams) and fills you again. That's not actually 220 useable runic power(and logs show way more, think of it as overhealing), but a lot in any case, and even if you only get 1 blast is completely worth it. Absolutely use it every time you need resources. It is extremely powerful to either keep your rotation going in a slow period, getting your ghoul to instant stacks or getting a gargoyle out.

You were one of the last people to die on ultraxion so you had basically 100% uptime during that 5:17 wipe. I have a log from like 2 months ago, 5:16 heroic, we had the same number of fading lights. You had 96 scourge strikes, 66 death coils, 26 festering strikes. I had 111 scourge strikes, 97 death coils, 33 festering strikes. Either too slow to react and use abilities or problems with regen from lack of death coils. Your unholy blight uptime, dot from death coil, is usually going to be a little lower than other diseases but yours is by a larger margin than I expect. Not that it's much dps, it's very weak, but it looks like you don't death coil enough. Maybe that's from not using AMS/arcane torrent so you don't have nearly as much runic power, or you save too much and for too long while the ghoul is transformed to get him stacks back. Though when faced with tons of runes/runic power, scourge strike does much more damage and is a higher priority than DC if you're not trying to transform the ghoul(and even if you are, honestly, if it's like 6 runes/capped power because of greatluck and ams).

I think you need to work on using ams offensively. I have as much runic power gained in logs from just that morchok kill(2 uses, 2 black bloods) as you did that entire log. Again, it's like over healing so when it says 600 runic power gained that's counting all the crap you got past cap(which is the majority of it), but it still means you never use it.

Remember arcane torrent is 15 more runic power if you need it and you have none in that ultraxion kill, or anything that I'm looking at.

Morchok - AMZ crystal if you have to run to it, AMS at 2 stacks of black blood debuff, and you never run out or should drop to very low health unless you start quite low already.
Yorsahj - AMS yellow and/or red phases.
Zonozz - AMS ball hits and black phases. AMZ ball hits(not paired with ams)
Hagara - AMZ isn't great here because it is all short bursts of damage instead of one big explosion but you can use if you're getting lanced in melee, if you stack up on ice phase, killing the lightning add while you're still stationary or when you're in position to link chains. AMS is also used on cooldown for all of those things.
Ultraxion - AMZ as I said only on some kind of soak and ams basically on cooldown.
Blackhorn - AMZ onslaughts and ams basically everything else.
Spine - AMZ explosions, ams rolls/before explosions.
Madness - AMZ bolt(slightly helpful on blisterings too), ams basically the entire damn fight for crazy runic power.


Let's just keep going through logs. You didn't blood boil on yorsahj or apparently drop death and decay often. That is crazy. My old log has over 800 ticks of DnD(my highest damage dealt), you have a little over 250. I also did almost 2mill damage with blood boil as well and over 3mil between our 2 main dots. That's in a group that killed it over a minute quicker and had way more people over 50k and some over 60k compared to yours, so much more aoe competition BUT at a lower nerf rate so the mobs did have more health for us to do that. In a 25man I'd also replace glyph of death coil with death and decay, in 10man I wouldn't bother. I always switch to oozes, but I keep the pet on passive and just have a hotkey to have him start on yorsahj at the beginning of the fight. I never take him off and when I run to oozes I go 1-2seconds later so they've already moved out of their spawn points a bit, otherwise the ghoul could despawn when you get too far out there.

Zonozz is normal so hard to talk about it, but again you never used ams and your unholy blight uptime was low. Morchok you died and I'm not terribly great at looking at the history stuff so I can't tell what happened, already very low and you died when he used vortex to suck everyone up? I do see atleast one ams use when you got hit by a crystal. It's a much bigger gain to leave your pet on the boss and run to the crystal so healers don't hate you(and probably drop amz so they like you instead) and save AMS for black blood phases rather than sit on boss and ams. A few seconds away from him that you can easily death coil/drop dnd down (try to use as many runes as possible before running from him, yorsahj, hard mode zonozz etc and death coil as you run) versus much longer of being at range where you have to position yourself in a right spot to be able to throw them out during black blood phase.

[nghtmr]

Morchok you died and I'm not terribly great at looking at the history stuff so I can't tell what happened, already very low and you died when he used vortex to suck everyone up? I do see atleast one ams use when you got hit by a crystal. It's a much bigger gain to leave your pet on the boss and run to the crystal so healers don't hate you(and probably drop amz so they like you instead) and save AMS for black blood phases rather than sit on boss and ams. A few seconds away from him that you can easily death coil/drop dnd down (try to use as many runes as possible before running from him, yorsahj, hard mode zonozz etc and death coil as you run) versus much longer of being at range where you have to position yourself in a right spot to be able to throw them out during black blood phase.

Are you using AMZ for your group's soak? AMZ+AMS do not work together so don't save ams for hour of twilights if you have to amz your group anyway.

i died on morchok because one of the ranged wasn't in a crystal and i was taking crystals without getting the extra heals for it. it wasn't the crystal that killed me it was a tick from something because i was at like 10khp getting ticked for 4k

i was wondering about blood boil for yor i kept seeing top unholy dk's using it but what am i suppose to do with frost runes if i use blood boil?

also note im a night elf not a blood elf so i don't have arcane torrent, which right there is a dps lost but i don't have the money to switch races and even i did i wouldn't really want to.

as for using AMZ i do use amz for my HoT's but im also in a group with a tank who uses 4p set bonus

[vortextk]

Lol I couldn't see a face on your armor and thought blood elf instinctively without looking, just looked that way with armor. My bad. If you're using AMZ for hour of twilights you should be using AMS like 5 or 6 times that fight but overall it has low usage, remember it's not just defensive, it is a 45s dps cooldown as unholy. If ranged isn't going to crystals, you go, drop amz at it, and save AMS for black blood. Yeah you can't help dying that time maybe but using ams for the crystal and running out for the entire black blood phase is a more massive dps loss than running to a crystal once or twice inbetween.

Frost runes, if you have NOTHING and I mean NOTHING else to do, blood tap, blood boil, DnD, scourge strike, transform, cooldowns, outbreak, horn of winter etc, then use icy touch. Icy touch does pathetic damage and is fairly terrible but if you're just completely out of resources like that, you need something(runic power from touch). That said, it should be very very rare and when you see those oozes hit and black is one of them, you want to 2x festering strike if possible so that you have 4 death runes for blood boil spam and hold off on using them(only scourge strike if you have unholy runes otherwise it'll eat at your death runes which you're saving) until the majority of adds get to you for pesti+blood boil spam. If you have yellow+black, use your first DnD maybe a bit early(as they're spawning rather than when like half are already inside) so you can drop your second and get a majority of the ticks off on the new set of adds. Also do a normal rotation and let dots tick when very few adds are left, even on yellow/black(2 sets of adds), so you can make sure diseases are rolling properly on yorsahj again and you have more death runes for blood boil spam if it's coming.


Like I said, what I see is lack of attacks which could be a myriad of things you're doing, lack of AMS use, low death coil use(and all three of these are tied together) and then just some fight mechanic changes like harder aoe on yorsahj.

Technically one of your gems could be haste/str instead of mastery/str, but whatever that's inconsequential and you could use the ghoul minor glyph where if you heal it(it can't be at full health) you get 20runic power back from death coil. Worthless outside of like, special phases on hagara, waiting for adds on blackhorn or after trash before a boss conserving power stacks. Not really an infight mechanic most of the time. Character looks built and spec'd just fine, I'd practice more with the spec and be more aware of fight mechanics. Should you use ams now or save it, get ready for heavy aoe by hoarding death runes for blood boil or continue normal rotation, that kind of stuff.

[nghtmr]

yea normally we have enough ranged for crystals it was just that one time where someone wasn't moving into them and i died because of it.

as for yor i really wasn't sure how to use blood boil but that really explained it thank you it will help so much for next week and i know i can replace that mastery/str gem and i should considering how mastery is for unholy right now

before now i never really thought of ams as a dps cd either i knew it gave RP back but i never used it as a dps cd. my dps will go up because of it. i get to test all these tips in 45minutes woo

also you said on morchok 2stacks for black blood is it 2 or 3? i heard somewhere else to use it at 3 i just never tried ive done it on normal but never for heroic mode

[vortextk]

2 or 3 is probably fine. I use it at 2 personally. I didn't do it on heroic either at first, but it works out the same as long as you're healed up before it starts. With the huge debuff it's not really required to stay in to actually down it before enrage or anything, however if you just want to do more dps personally just make sure you've got health and it's not really any different than normal. If you're worried you can IBF one and health stone the other or something.

When you find yourself overflowing with runic power with ams, don't just keep casting death coils and sit at 6 runes. Morchok is a really good example. Since you stop dpsing when he sucks you up, your runes are just regenerating so you'll most likely have them all when you get back on him. After you hit AMS you'll instantly go to 110 runic power and keep going back to 110 until it breaks/wears off, but that doesn't mean you should only use death coils. Festering is important to keep diseases going if you have to get rid of your frost/blood runes of course, and scourge strike hits much harder than death coil so you always want to go to runes first in that kind of situation. Just basic dk stuff, you always want runes recharging, even moreso when you're about to throw 2-3 deathcoils in a row since you'll have a high chance of getting regen and you don't want that wasted while being rune capped.

[nghtmr]

it just seemed like more work for the healers which is why i haven't tried it yet.

[vortextk]

it just seemed like more work for the healers which is why i haven't tried it yet.

Technically, yes, they have to heal you two or three more times than if you ran out. The damage built up on you is very slow however and frankly pretty minute. It also is in 2 "waves", some damage before ams, the rest after it wears off, and that entire time there isn't much more damage going out than another dk or rogue or something sitting in black blood using a cooldown as well. By all means run out if the entire raid is at half health and healers are grumbling about mana, but the damage is fairly pathetic for like a 25% dps increase or something if you stay in for both of them. Make a judgment call or let people know beforehand, it's pretty standard especially for an unholy dk.

[nghtmr]

everyone in my guild's raid runs out for black blood

i honestly can't tell anything about healers they have there own channel they talk in about mana issues with the tanks and officers in it

[vortextk]

Right, not everyone has a cooldown that can go through it. You do though. Your call.