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  1. #281
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'll post the notes here as well just for the sake of completeness:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    - Prayer of Healing and Prayer of Mending now provide 25% more healing when cast by Holy and Discipline Priests.
    - Battle Fatigue properly reduces the effects of Sacred Shield in PvP.
    - Archangel now affects Spirit Shell properly.
    - Void Shift can now only work on other players.
    - Cascade now deals 25% more damage or healing.
    - Mind Sear now deals 25% more damage.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/7207170
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  2. #282
    - Archangel now affects Spirit Shell properly.

    ....hot.
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  3. #283
    With the change to Cascade I guess it will be better than Halo on multiple add fights? Due to the shortened cooldown. I've done it on the testdummies and Halo did 134K dps and Cascade 132K, both had 4 hits (sweet spot also for Halo) - considering Cascade has a 15 second cooldown it will win on DPS now?

    Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm so bad when it comes to mathematics :/. Anyone that is actually good can shed some light on this? Or they both pretty much equal, due to Halo able to help out on healing also?
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  4. #284
    I don't understand the Void Shift change. Was it some sort of exploit?
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  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by andremello View Post
    I don't understand the Void Shift change. Was it some sort of exploit?
    It was (is still for me) possible to use Void Shift on combat pets such as Shadowfiend, Mindbender, Psyfiend, and Void Tendril. Very useful in PvP for obvious reasons, during soloing, as well as in raid to get yourself topped off quickly. I'm using this feature on a daily basis and have made various macros for it.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    It was (is still for me) possible to use Void Shift on combat pets such as Shadowfiend, Mindbender, Psyfiend, and Void Tendril. Very useful in PvP for obvious reasons, during soloing, as well as in raid to get yourself topped off quickly. I'm using this feature on a daily basis and have made various macros for it.
    A-ha, I see.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by andremello View Post
    A-ha, I see.


    See also e.g. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...yshift-FTW-lol
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  8. #288
    Kind of new here, more of a lurker then a poster

    When is it ideal to clip mind flay? I've been trying for after the 2nd tick, and usually only on a dot refresh, rather then a MB or a MSp. What are the current thoughts on this?

  9. #289
    The Patient Nymie's Avatar
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    Is there any possibility of adding suggestions for NONEPIC gems? I get that we are talking about once we are rolling in full tier, but until then I am seeing about 20 different suggestions- from expertise to gemming every socket pure haste to traditional int int/haste int/spirit- and would like to hear from the number crunchers. The list is great for once epic gems are plentiful but at the moment it doesn't help anyone. Thanks for any input!

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  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcloud View Post
    Kind of new here, more of a lurker then a poster :)

    When is it ideal to clip mind flay? I've been trying for after the 2nd tick, and usually only on a dot refresh, rather then a MB or a MSp. What are the current thoughts on this?
    Always clip for MB or SW:D - you need to generate orbs as fast as possible. Clipping for dots I'm not so sure on.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferin View Post
    Always clip for MB or SW - you need to generate orbs as fast as possible. Clipping for dots I'm not so sure on.
    I guess what I'm asking is if it's better to clip or let dots fall off. I miss-typed and meant I do clip for MB and SW, but not much else.

  12. #292
    The Patient
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    I think it would be great if this guide went into more details about spec choices related to specific raid encounters
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  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcloud View Post
    I guess what I'm asking is if it's better to clip or let dots fall off. I miss-typed and meant I do clip for MB and SW:D, but not much else.
    I let dots drop if MB or SW:D is up if that's what you're asking.

  14. #294
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    Well, 1% haste is 425 haste rating, so 8085 - 425 is 7660. So that explains where that number is showing up from - its just someone doing quick napkin math. But actually, haste is multiplicative - so it should be slightly lower than 7660: 7585 should do it. Not sure where 7890 came from but definitely wrong, that's only 195 haste rating which is about half a percent.

    I can't think how someone would get 7890 though.
    I'm sorry I have to do this again, but the correct number for goblins is 7584, for the same reason as above. The goblin haste is worth more than 425 rating because it's multiplied with the 5% haste and the haste from gear, not added.
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  15. #295
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aica View Post
    I'm sorry I have to do this again, but the correct number for goblins is 7584, for the same reason as above. The goblin haste is worth more than 425 rating because it's multiplied with the 5% haste and the haste from gear, not added.
    I said that right in the quoted bit?

    I only showed the 8085 - 425 = 7660 bit at the start to show where people are getting that number and why it's not correct.

    Edit: Oh unless your saying 7585 versus 7584, but that doesn't really matter - and its safer to round up than to truncate with something like this.
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  16. #296
    Stat weights change significantly after our haste break point of 8085 (24.98%). Here's something twintop put together showing how it can change PP values: http://warcraft.twintop-tahoe.com/?p=344

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  17. #297
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burchoid View Post
    Stat weights change significantly after our haste break point of 8085 (24.98%). Here's something twintop put together showing how it can change PP values: http://warcraft.twintop-tahoe.com/?p=344
    Right, I'm never quite sure how to handle that though - in reality stat weights shift constantly based on your gear, your talent points, your glyphs, your reforges and gems - the big important one is getting to that haste plateau which is constant to us all. My goal with this guide isn't to step on Twintop's toes - he already provides excellent and more in-depth analysis, so the niche my guide fills is providing the quick and simple answers.

    In effect, my guide is a Shadow FAQ - but for anyone reading Twintop (or simming their toons gear after getting an upgrade to find out what they should reforge/regem to based on their specific stat weights) - my guide isn't designed to help them up their dps (and myself included): that's intentional. We field thousands of questions like "what talents should I take?", "what spells do I use?", "why is my dps so low?", "what race is best for dps?" - rather than giving an essay for every new thread, we can just link novices here - and I think it works pretty well

    Edit: But what I mean is, if I start posting too much math people get angry and/or the intended audience stops reading - and any stat weights I post are going to be wrong (because they move constantly) - so posting them for people who don't really understand what makes stat weights shift is just going to confuse people I think.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-10-15 at 05:16 AM.
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  18. #298
    Stat weights only change as you reach hit cap and the haste breakpoint, and I think its worth knowing about both

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  19. #299
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    I said that right in the quoted bit?

    I only showed the 8085 - 425 = 7660 bit at the start to show where people are getting that number and why it's not correct.

    Edit: Oh unless your saying 7585 versus 7584, but that doesn't really matter - and its safer to round up than to truncate with something like this.
    No, you're right and I replied to you without fully reading your post. Sorry about that.

    It's still 7584, though.

    (1.24974/1.05/1.01 - 1) * 425 * 100 = 7583.87. Rounding up gives you 7584.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-15 at 10:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    Right, I'm never quite sure how to handle that though - in reality stat weights shift constantly based on your gear, your talent points, your glyphs, your reforges and gems - the big important one is getting to that haste plateau which is constant to us all. My goal with this guide isn't to step on Twintop's toes - he already provides excellent and more in-depth analysis, so the niche my guide fills is providing the quick and simple answers.

    In effect, my guide is a Shadow FAQ - but for anyone reading Twintop (or simming their toons gear after getting an upgrade to find out what they should reforge/regem to based on their specific stat weights) - my guide isn't designed to help them up their dps (and myself included): that's intentional. We field thousands of questions like "what talents should I take?", "what spells do I use?", "why is my dps so low?", "what race is best for dps?" - rather than giving an essay for every new thread, we can just link novices here - and I think it works pretty well

    Edit: But what I mean is, if I start posting too much math people get angry and/or the intended audience stops reading - and any stat weights I post are going to be wrong (because they move constantly) - so posting them for people who don't really understand what makes stat weights shift is just going to confuse people I think.
    I think the best way to say this is: Below the hit cap: Hit > Haste > Crit > Mastery, above the hit cap: Haste > Hit = Crit > Mastery (hit's reforge potential is equal to crit's). If you can reach 8085 haste rating by gemming haste over intellect, do it. Once you pass 8085 haste rating, start switching the haste gems back into int gems, as long as you stay above 8085.
    Last edited by Aica; 2012-10-15 at 08:09 PM.
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  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Aica View Post
    I think the best way to say this is: Below the hit cap: Hit > Haste > Crit > Mastery, above the hit cap: Haste > Hit = Crit > Mastery (hit's reforge potential is equal to crit's). If you can reach 8085 haste rating by gemming haste over intellect, do it. Once you pass 8085 haste rating, start switching the haste gems back into hit gems, as long as you stay above 8085.
    I am confused by your last two sentences. Did you mean to say "once you pass 8085 haste rating, start switching haste gems back into int gems"? Because I don't think dropping under hit cap to reach 8085 would be a good thing.

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