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  1. #381
    Sometimes, halo pulls aggro on mobs it hits the farthest, but doesn't do damage to them. I guessed it's that.
    But I also do hope it hits faster and as hard at 30 as at 25 yards.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarqa View Post
    Halo isn't hitting newly spawned mobs like other AoE spells are. I stopped using it as a spell to quickly tag a bunch of mobs for dailies. Maybe this has been fixed?
    Depending on the situation, that's not "fixable". Halo isn't dynamic, it takes a snapshot of everyone who is within 30 yards of you and the damage they will receive is set at the time it is cast. No mobs can "outrun" the ring or be damaged by "joining" it. Having halo calculate who is in the circumference as it grows... that is a little crazy. As a developer I can tell you it would require really complex code to the point of not being worth it. That being said, maybe you don't see halo tagging newly spawned mobs after you cast it, it is really not supposed to, and I honestly doubt that will ever change. Even if they make that change, I would not like it at all. I remember plenty of raiding situations when I cast halo at the perfect range but the boss ends up moving (second boss in Heart of Fear is a good example). I still end up getting the full hit, and I like that.

    The word "responsive" is so vague, really hard to speculate. I like the spell the way it is, I hope they don't change how it works right now. I really hope the "responsive" means it will grow faster, I'm fine with that. Any other change I can think of scares me a little bit. We'll have to wait and see.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by andremello View Post
    Having halo calculate who is in the circumference as it grows... that is a little crazy. As a developer I can tell you it would require really complex code to the point of not being worth it.
    Really? Why? You'd just do the current calcs, but refresh every second (or some similar time interval). Not really any more complex than the current code. It would load up the server though, so it's possible they don't want to do it for that reason.

  4. #384
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    The only way to do it would be to make it so that each time Halo hits an additional person it heals for a reduced amount. Ie.

    Person 1: 100%
    Person 2: 80%
    Person 3: 60%
    Person 4: 40%
    Person 5: 20%
    Person 6-100: 20%

    The problem with this logic is that it doesn't follow the Halo design at all, assuming it ignores the priest in this calculation - say it hits the first person at 5 yards, the second at 10 - by the time it reached apex it would be terrible.

    With that said, Andremello I'm almost certain your wrong about the idea of Halo taking a snapshot on use about who is inside and outside Halo range, I haven't tested explicitly for this - but my rogue arena partner had me test repeatedly with him about how Halo mechanics work so he can avoid them in stealth. The damage is definitely delayed until the wave actually reaches you, and doesn't hit you if you see it coming and run out - which goes contrary to your suggestion. I have not tested it in reverse, but I highly doubt a rogue stealthing toward you at 30+ yards can walk directly over the wave and take no damage because they were not inside the snapshot, I can test that later though just to be sure.
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  5. #385
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    Hmmm, I've used Halo on things that ran completely out of range before it got to them yet they still took damage like they were in the spot where I cast it.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferin View Post
    Really? Why? You'd just do the current calcs, but refresh every second (or some similar time interval). Not really any more complex than the current code. It would load up the server though, so it's possible they don't want to do it for that reason.
    This is simple, the complicated code comes when there are targets that could potentially get in the ring as it expands. And yeah, it would create a heavy load on the server, because making it refresh every second, literally, isn't good enough to qualify as making it "responsive". So when we are talking miliseconds, every mob around/within the ring, yeah, it could create a unnecessary burden to the server.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    With that said, Andremello I'm almost certain your wrong about the idea of Halo taking a snapshot on use about who is inside and outside Halo range, I haven't tested explicitly for this - but my rogue arena partner had me test repeatedly with him about how Halo mechanics work so he can avoid them in stealth. The damage is definitely delayed until the wave actually reaches you, and doesn't hit you if you see it coming and run out - which goes contrary to your suggestion. I have not tested it in reverse, but I highly doubt a rogue stealthing toward you at 30+ yards can walk directly over the wave and take no damage because they were not inside the snapshot, I can test that later though just to be sure.
    The second boss in Heart of Fear has a shadowstep ability that leaves a dot. I've cast Halo at the correct range and he shadowstepped to me a couple of miliseconds after and I still got the full amount. I don't know if the damage was immediate or if it was delayed, I just know from looking at the combat log. I've also noticed it during Will of the Emperor; Rages getting in my ring and not getting hit, Strenghts moving from the perfect range but being hit by the full amount, etc.
    Last edited by andremello; 2012-11-06 at 06:34 PM.

  7. #387
    I've cast halo on things running at me and done damage as though they are at the range when it's cast - there's definitely a snapshot going on. The actual damage is delayed but the amount is calculated when you push the button.

    And accounting for targets running into a ring isn't complicated - detecting target in circle (strictly cylinder since halo hits above and below you to some extent) is a very straightforward check. Server load is the issue I suspect, or just that it fit easier with the way all other spells work.

  8. #388
    thanks a lot, helped me very much!

  9. #389
    Hey Thanks alot for this guide, I just offspec shadow but have been trying to get a better feel for things. I was wondering about a few things if I was doing them correctly; I guess just the basic priority rotation.. If you are in a situation where you have 2 orbs + shadow word death to generate the 3rd, are you supposed to swd -> DP3 -> swd? And if you were to say, proc divine insight as you swd and generate a 3rd orb, are you supposed to death (generate 3rd orb, proc DI) -> dp3 -> death ->mb .. basically does swd (not generating orb) or divine insight proc MB change their priority order?

  10. #390
    You are correct.

    Basically the SWD that provides you with an orb has a higher priority then one without, and without it actually drops down below both a DP3 and a MB. So say if you used SWD then DP3 and MB came off CD normally without an instant proc, you would still cast it first before you cast the second SWD.

    Anyone doing any work on where the changes to the DMC will put it in terms of the BiS list? Saving up now to get one, but it seems like it may not be as high up there anymore, and I want to see where it falls on the list now before I buy it.

  11. #391
    Field Marshal Leelloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damerflinn View Post

    Anyone doing any work on where the changes to the DMC will put it in terms of the BiS list? Saving up now to get one, but it seems like it may not be as high up there anymore, and I want to see where it falls on the list now before I buy it.
    Even with the nerfs comming in it's still a really viable trinket, you should definately get it since its better than any "Dungeon" heroic trinket you can get, aswel as better than most from normal modes, its also very cheap atm.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 08:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Docta View Post
    Hey Thanks alot for this guide, I just offspec shadow but have been trying to get a better feel for things. I was wondering about a few things if I was doing them correctly; I guess just the basic priority rotation.. If you are in a situation where you have 2 orbs + shadow word death to generate the 3rd, are you supposed to swd -> DP3 -> swd? And if you were to say, proc divine insight as you swd and generate a 3rd orb, are you supposed to death (generate 3rd orb, proc DI) -> dp3 -> death ->mb .. basically does swd (not generating orb) or divine insight proc MB change their priority order?
    Well there is 2 ways to counter this, both ways are viable and both ways delays the next shadoworbs by 1-2 GCDs.
    You can either do SW.D>SW.D>DP>Mindblast (Making mindblast being delayed for using the extra SW.D, but it makes SW.D come of cooldown faster thus faster shadoworbs.
    Or you can SW.D > DP. > Mindblast > SW.D, (Making the next SW.D's being delayed for using that mindblast) but making Mindblast come of cooldown faster.

    Both ways are equal in DPS.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Damerflinn View Post
    You are correct.

    Basically the SWD that provides you with an orb has a higher priority then one without, and without it actually drops down below both a DP3 and a MB. So say if you used SWD then DP3 and MB came off CD normally without an instant proc, you would still cast it first before you cast the second SWD.

    Anyone doing any work on where the changes to the DMC will put it in terms of the BiS list? Saving up now to get one, but it seems like it may not be as high up there anymore, and I want to see where it falls on the list now before I buy it.
    There isn't a nerf. The values being shown on the trinket that MMO datamined are values for the proc if it were scaled down to 463 (Challenge Modes). The default data being displayed changed because of 5.1 item upgrades.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Damerflinn View Post
    Anyone doing any work on where the changes to the DMC will put it in terms of the BiS list? Saving up now to get one, but it seems like it may not be as high up there anymore, and I want to see where it falls on the list now before I buy it.
    It was not nerfed. The lower values are from the 463 version of the trinkets, due to Challenge mode scaling. See GC twitter and wowhead news for more details. https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...06318677757954

  14. #394
    Yeah I saw that they took back that there were changes being made.

  15. #395
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damerflinn View Post
    You are correct.

    Basically the SWD that provides you with an orb has a higher priority then one without, and without it actually drops down below both a DP3 and a MB. So say if you used SWD then DP3 and MB came off CD normally without an instant proc, you would still cast it first before you cast the second SWD.
    Delaying the second SW:D to cast Mind Blast is the same as delaying Mind Blast to cast the second SW:D. Both routes end up giving you an orb and a GCD delay in getting your next orb. The only time it matters is with DI.
    {[( )]}

  16. #396
    Field Marshal Leelloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aica View Post
    Delaying the second SW:D to cast Mind Blast is the same as delaying Mind Blast to cast the second SW:D. Both routes end up giving you an orb and a GCD delay in getting your next orb. The only time it matters is with DI.
    Which is exactly what i said.

  17. #397
    I'm pretty sure you don't get an extra Shadow Orb when you cast the second SWD. Then, if I'm right, I wouldn't cast DP3 before the second SWD since IMO, it's better off refreshing the SWD CD asap and, then, cast the DP3 since its "CD" (or availabilty needed time) doesn't depend on DP itself. Then, it doesnt really matter if you cast DP3 1 or 3 seconds before or later as long as you don't get an extra Shadow Orb in that meanwhile. So I would only do that if the MB remaining CD is so short that after casting the second SWD you can cast MB again, where you would get a useless 4th Shadow Orb and then cast DP3, or casting DP3 before a refreshed and delayed MB.

    Please, tell me if I'm wrong.

    I apologise for my poor English.
    Last edited by Eldarc; 2012-11-15 at 12:01 PM.

  18. #398
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    The problem, Eldarc, is that the SW:D that DOES generate an orb can't be used until you either cast the second SW:D or wait 6 seconds. The longer you delay the second SW:D in a set, the longer you delay the first SW:D in the next set (until you've delayed the second one by 6 seconds).

    This is mainly relevant for the choice between MB and SW:D. The way you're describing your choice between DP and MB/SW:D is correct.
    Last edited by Aica; 2012-11-15 at 06:21 PM.
    {[( )]}

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Aica View Post
    The problem, Eldarc, is that the SW:D that DOES generate an orb can't be used until you either cast the second SW:D or wait 6 seconds. The longer you delay the second SW:D in a set, the longer you delay the first SW:D in the next set (until you've delayed the second one by 6 seconds).

    This is mainly relevant for the choice between MB and SW:D. The way you're describing your choice between DP and MB/SW:D is correct.
    Yep. But if i got 3 SO and I can cast the 2nd SWD or DP3 and MB is 1 sec off CD, then you got these options:
    1) DP3 - MB - 2ndSWD
    2) DP3 - 2ndSWD - MB
    3) 2ndSWD - DP3 - MB
    4) 2ndSWD - MB - DP3

    It seems obvious to mee that the worst decision would be the 4th case because you would waste 1 generated SO, so I ignore it. Wich one of the 1-3 choices would be the best?

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarc View Post
    Yep. But if i got 3 SO and I can cast the 2nd SWD or DP3 and MB is 1 sec off CD, then you got these options:
    1) DP3 - MB - 2ndSWD
    2) DP3 - 2ndSWD - MB
    3) 2ndSWD - DP3 - MB
    4) 2ndSWD - MB - DP3

    It seems obvious to mee that the worst decision would be the 4th case because you would waste 1 generated SO, so I ignore it. Wich one of the 1-3 choices would be the best?
    #3, 2ndSWD - DP3 - MB.

    This is because, as you pointed out, casting MB with 3 orbs ready wastes an orb (striking #4). For #1 and #2 you must remember that you only lose DPS on casting DP3 if you don't cast it before a MB or 1stSWD is off CD. You can cast it immediately after a 3rd-orb producing SWD/MB or one GCD before the 1stSWD/MB is off CD and it does the same amount of damage.

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