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  1. #461
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Practically you may find yourself delaying a SW: Dx2 for a MB or DPx3, but that's pretty much it.

    DoTs are very easy to refresh and burning procs should be done quickly. It should rarely be an 'either/or' decision.

  2. #462
    I'm aware that both of the questions I'm asking are rare occurances (having to chose betwen burning procs and re-dotting isn't really that uncommon on multiple targets though) but they do occur and dealing with them appropriately may be the difference between a good and an amazing sp, since I doubt many good players find the normal priority that hard to execute.
    Last edited by Cookie; 2013-01-15 at 11:15 AM.

  3. #463
    The answer to that question depends largely on how many targets you are facing. If I'm at two stacks of FDCL on a 1 or 2 target fight and a dot is about to expire, I will typically recast the dot first since the chance that I gain another proc in that timeframe is smaller. On the 3-5 target range I will always favor burning my second FDCL proc before recasting any dots. The reason for this is that you are highly likely to waste FDCL procs in these situations, and the choice isn't strictly a FDCL vs DoT cast situation, it's really a FDCL vs MF situation. On situations up to 5 targets you will still incorporate MF into your rotation pretty regularly once everything is dotted. Any FDCL procs you waste can then potentially become MF's once your dot-maintenance phase is over. Having to cast MF instead of having a FDCL proc is a much larger dps loss than delaying your dot recast by a global. Even though you will lose a small amount of dot uptime in the process, it is much better to have a rotation consisting entirely of staggered dot and FDCL casts exclusively. Once you've moved into the 6+ target range, however, you can fill your casts with dots almost exclusively so FDCL loses some value. The only multi-target fight this tier worth taking DI on is Stone Guard (10m raiders could probably argue Feng), so fortunately you won't have to deal with proc overload on any other fights.

    I typically follow the following rules:

    For non-cleave
    1-2 Targets: Priority as normal
    3-5 Targets: Second FDCL proc/proc falling off becomes greater priority than dot refreshes
    6+ Targets: Between dots and MB/DP you really won't be casting many Mind Spikes, not that there's a fight this tier which follows this model.

    Cleave
    1-2 Targets: Priority as normal
    3 Targets: Second FDCL proc/proc falling off becomes greater priority than dot refreshes
    4-5 Targets: Replace MF with Mind Sear
    6-8 Targets: SWP all mobs then Sear, VT as needed for mana
    8+: Sear

    I'm sure someone could do a better job with the theorycrafting than I and adjust the target thresholds slightly for better dps, but most encounters fall pretty neatly into one of the ranges. Big exception would be Sha and I would recommend switching to Mind Sear sooner rather than later for both ease of play and making sure the dread spawn health stays mostly level.
    Last edited by Hesp; 2013-01-16 at 10:59 PM.

  4. #464
    I cast mind sear even with only 3 targets instead of the almost useless mindflay.

  5. #465
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarc View Post
    I cast mind sear even with only 3 targets instead of the almost useless mindflay.
    I Mind Sear single target in 5's because who cares?

    In raid you should be Multi-DoTing and practicing until you become fairly efficient. There just so happens to be large groups of Target dummies about in Cities

  6. #466
    No, u missunderstood me i think. I multi dot, cast mb on cd, etc. But I don't fill with MF but Mindsear when 3 or more targets.

  7. #467
    Hi Folks,

    I am having a tough time deciding on what trinkets i should use considering what is available to me.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kelnn/advanced

    I also have the LFR version of the Intel trinket from Sha.

    My question is should I be using the Intel trinket from Sha and then reforging to make the 24.97% haste cap?

    I have tested a few times now on simcraft, but i am having trouble understanding the results. Many thanks in advance!

  8. #468
    The results should be pretty straightforward on SimC. Just test with your current setup, then change to the other trinket (reforge and everything), log out and back in again, then reload your toon into SimC and sim again.

    My money says the Sha trinket will sim higher, but thats just a shot in the dark. I might be wrong.

  9. #469
    Mechagnome veiledy0's Avatar
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    First of all you shouldn't have wasted valor on upgrading the Dominance Offensive dailies trinket, because it is absolute cr*p. And yes, you should use the LFR version of Sha trinket over it.
    When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
    When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
    And I held your hand through all of these years

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    First of all you shouldn't have wasted valor on upgrading the Dominance Offensive dailies trinket, because it is absolute cr*p. And yes, you should use the LFR version of Sha trinket over it.
    Currently have an open ticket for that, upgraded the wrong trinket

  11. #471

  12. #472
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarc View Post
    No, u missunderstood me i think. I multi dot, cast mb on cd, etc. But I don't fill with MF but Mindsear when 3 or more targets.
    You should be doing it with two targets.
    {[( )]}

  13. #473
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    Edit: Post no longer revelant as I forgot about Shadowy Apparitions and t15's focus on them + they redesigned insanity(?)
    Last edited by Chuyek; 2013-01-30 at 05:53 PM. Reason: I'm a total noob :(

  14. #474
    The Patient
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    With DPS in mind: What is the best rotation when using 'Vampiric Embrace' with the glyph ?

  15. #475
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandilf View Post
    With DPS in mind: What is the best rotation when using 'Vampiric Embrace' with the glyph ?
    The rotation that gets you the most damage: aka your normal rotation.

  16. #476
    The glyphed Vampiric Embrace lasts 6 seconds. In this short period of time it's possible you deal more dmg mindspiking and mindblasting than getting about 2 VT and 2 SWP ticks + MF. I haven't done any math nor tested it in dummies but I think the Frmercury's answer could be wrong.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarc View Post
    The glyphed Vampiric Embrace lasts 6 seconds. In this short period of time it's possible you deal more dmg mindspiking and mindblasting than getting about 2 VT and 2 SWP ticks + MF. I haven't done any math nor tested it in dummies but I think the Frmercury's answer could be wrong.
    Except that it doesn't, it lasts 10 seconds, and mind spike spam dealing more damage than the normal rotation is hilariously naive. Why wouldn't we just spam mind spike all day if that was superior (which it obviously isn't, since mind spike barely outdpses pure mind flay spam)?

  18. #478
    The Patient
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    Frmercury: Thank you. Just wasn't sure if there was a bettter rotation since popping VE would be in a 'oh-shit' situation and some spells might get better healing in that period of time.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Except that it doesn't, it lasts 10 seconds, and mind spike spam dealing more damage than the normal rotation is hilariously naive. Why wouldn't we just spam mind spike all day if that was superior (which it obviously isn't, since mind spike barely outdpses pure mind flay spam)?
    Well, you'd go OOM in 1-2 minutes. I'm not assuring MS + MB deal more dmg than the normal rotation. I say that I wouldn't deny it so fast. But if you all say so, you must be right, of course.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarc View Post
    Well, you'd go OOM in 1-2 minutes. I'm not assuring MS + MB deal more dmg than the normal rotation. I say that I wouldn't deny it so fast. But if you all say so, you must be right, of course.
    (You do realize finally that you were wrong VE duration of 6 sec? It being 10 sec?)

    Why wouldn't you deny it? You can test it even on a dummy... it takes 1 minute to figure out you're wrong.

    What you say does do more damage (together with SW:D) if its a short burst you need, but because the orb mechanism is tied to a DoT in MoP (DP) using MS after that is a DPS loss. MS itself does slightly more damage than MF which is really bad in MoP.

    So assuming you have your DoTs up and running before you pop VE (heck, maybe you're even, I don't know, multiDoTing?) and are able to fire a DP you'll do more healing than with MS/MBl. Also, you'll do self healing with DP.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

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