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  1. #661
    I think you've failed yourself as a gamer if you are trying to breakdown the amount of time you played and the money you spent in some kind of "equation of just how much fun per cent I've had". That shit is just sad.

    Diablo 3 failed me because not once did it give me that feeling of loot lust.
    Not once did I feel connected or responsible for my characters growth, I was more like some passenger riding along a monorail.
    Not once did I feel compelled by the story or any of it's characters, in fact I had to actively work towards pushing those things out of my mind.
    Not once did I feel like I was playing a diablo game.

    I could go on, but many people have articulated this point better then me.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    I think you've failed yourself as a gamer if you are trying to breakdown the amount of time you played and the money you spent in some kind of "equation of just how much fun per cent I've had". That shit is just sad.

    Diablo 3 failed me because not once did it give me that feeling of loot lust.
    Not once did I feel connected or responsible for my characters growth, I was more like some passenger riding along a monorail.
    Not once did I feel compelled by the story or any of it's characters, in fact I had to actively work towards pushing those things out of my mind.
    Not once did I feel like I was playing a diablo game.

    I could go on, but many people have articulated this point better then me.
    i agree with this guy.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by overseer666 View Post
    It's really almost like the developers of D3 never played D2. There are obvious components which made D2 a success, and gave it amazing replay value.

    1) The ability to screw up your character's development.
    -I know I'm not the only one who leveled up 500 characters because I wanted to try different builds, go through different skill trees, and allocate stats in more efficient ways. It was fun to make your baby, and it was quick thanks to rushing through the game and getting to Baal/cow runs. Your goal was to make a build that was better than every other player, or as good as the best players.
    -Diablo 3 took that aspect away, and I don't know why. Once you make a barbarian in Diablo 3, that is the ONLY barbarian you will EVER have to make. Aside from gear, all barbarians have the SAME stats, and SAME skills available to them. Where is the replay value in that? All that's left to do is get gear....which can be obtained with real money in a couple minutes.

    2)Community
    -Having 8 players in a game, all running through challenges with each other (who am i kidding, running through Baal runs) was a fun way to play the game with several people at once. There is much more diversity in the classes you could play with at once, by having larger games. This also falls into the losing character customizing issue.....if you're a barbarian...any other barbarian in the game has EXACTLY the same build you do. There is no chance that you are built for WW and the other is built for Fury.
    -Diablo 3 cuts the group size in half...for?...reason?...because the developers never played D2, that's why.
    -I'll throw PvP into this category as well. Honestly, having PvP in the blood moor in random PvP games was stupid fun. You could test yourself against other random players, or just be a complete ass (but no matter how strong you are...there is somebody stronger. So those people died too). You met people in these games, who were also interested in PvP builds, and developed friends (or enemies).
    -Personally....I don't remember anyone I talked to in the random Diablo 3 games I played...if I talked to them at all.

    3) Auction House
    - WHAT THE ****
    -People have talked about the problems with this, so I'll just leave it at that.

    Developers are deviating more and more from the sandbox style of games like Diablo 2 was, to a rigid "you play the way we tell you to play" style of game like Diablo 3 is. If i want to make a poison Necromancer instead of a Bone necromancer, that's my decision, and I don't think EVERY other necromancer out there should be able to see my success, and simply change his skills around to match mine. He should have to make his character from scratch as well!
    If I want to have a crazy manapool compared to everyone else, then I'll poar all my stat points into energy, and have more than the other necromancers I play with.
    I don't understand how the developers screwed this up. They could LITERALLY have made Diablo 3, Diablo 2 with better graphics, and it would have been more of a success than Diablo 3 was. Not everything has to become WoW.
    I disagree with 1 and 2.

    And I don't really agree with 3 either. It has positives and negatives. The choice to play without any auction house involved would completely remove any negative points regarding 3 for me.

    Ultimately, I disagree with you. So your "obvious this" and "obvious that" just makes me think games are designed around what you want, rather than realistically, what other people want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    Having to plan the character out completely in advance isn't fun, it's tedious. Not all of us did "rushing". Frankly, that wasn't you leveling a toon, that was you getting carried to try a different build cause you couldn't arsed to level the toon.
    This is only relevant if you're a min-maxer and are just interested in playing the game "right" the first and only time. Taking away choice also results in taking away replay or challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    I hear everyone who touts the greatness of the old Diablo 2 team that made Torchlight... oh wait, they made a SINGLE-PLAYER ONLY ARPG. Not even with LAN support for multiplayer.
    Multiplayer isn't just some switch you toggle, it has to be coded in as a feature on its own. And Runic has said that the first Torchlight game was a minimal project to get them working and drawing in money. Torchlight 1 worked out good enough for them, so that's why they were able to add in multiplayer for part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    3) Auction House... I refer to you the 3rd party sites that nearly ran the same services, except it was unsafe and unreliable. Auction House gave a secure way to buy/sell items that didn't revolve around trading with someone in-game, especially when it came to real-money, after sending them cash via paypal or CC and getting nothing. It was done with the intentions of preventing scammers.
    How many people actually did this? If they're willing to spend real money on a shady third-party website for virtual gear, then caveat emptor. And this has not gone away even with the inclusion of an official auction house. Though it has irrevocably changed the design of the whole PC version. I would be interested to see how many people will clamor to get an auction house added for the console version.

  5. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    I think you've failed yourself as a gamer if you are trying to breakdown the amount of time you played and the money you spent in some kind of "equation of just how much fun per cent I've had". That shit is just sad.

    Diablo 3 failed me because not once did it give me that feeling of loot lust.
    Not once did I feel connected or responsible for my characters growth, I was more like some passenger riding along a monorail.
    Not once did I feel compelled by the story or any of it's characters, in fact I had to actively work towards pushing those things out of my mind.
    Not once did I feel like I was playing a diablo game.

    I could go on, but many people have articulated this point better then me.
    I think you might have brain damage if you believe someone would spend more than 10 hours playing a video game that wasn't fun or entertaining. Good try though.

  6. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    I think you might have brain damage if you believe someone would spend more than 10 hours playing a video game that wasn't fun or entertaining. Good try though.
    Add another zero and get back to me.

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  7. #667
    The problem is while its better there is still ZERO balance among classes and even less among builds.

    For example Barbs can solo MP 10 ubers with 15 mil gear. Try that on a DH? Hell try MP 6/7 on a DH with 15 mil in gear.

    Also class builds need to be looked at again.
    Why should I be forced to play Calamity Grenades/Trap on my DH for higher MPs if what I love playing is Strafe?
    Why should I be forced to play CM/WW on my Wiz if what I love is Archon?

    So much is still wrong its silly. Every build should work on every MP. The only thing holding you back is supposed to be gear not the fact that your build sucks. Archon is my favorite but unless you are Bill Gates you will never see MP 9/10 as Archon simply because they class mechanics force you to play low MPs. You just cant maintain archon on anything higher than MP5 without a billion in Gear. I tried it with 500 mil gear and 400k DPS and MP 4 was all I could do and if I got shielding mobs I lost archon and then died to trash cause all my defense was gone. All the while Barbs with 20 mil are facerolling MP10 and I cant do it with half a bil.
    Last edited by Lilly32; 2013-04-05 at 03:01 AM.

  8. #668
    The unlimited "re-skills" kind of killed it for me.

    In D2, I especially loved trying out new, crazy builds every once in a while.

    You just don't get the same satisfaction out of messing around with your skills on the same character and a great amount of replayability is lost for me this way.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    I think you might have brain damage if you believe someone would spend more than 10 hours playing a video game that wasn't fun or entertaining. Good try though.
    You think playing through the tutorial mode (AKA "normal mode") takes 10 hours?

    Secondly, If I spend full price for a game I'm going to play through to the end no matter how shitty it is, if only to give it the benefit of the doubt that it may surprise me towards the end (sadly it didn't, and luckily I got a refund because their servers were as shitty as the game)

    If you want to talk with the big boys you're going to have to start making more sense. Good try though, cupcake.
    Last edited by Lomak; 2013-04-05 at 03:31 PM.

  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    The problem is while its better there is still ZERO balance among classes and even less among builds.

    For example Barbs can solo MP 10 ubers with 15 mil gear. Try that on a DH? Hell try MP 6/7 on a DH with 15 mil in gear.

    Also class builds need to be looked at again.
    Why should I be forced to play Calamity Grenades/Trap on my DH for higher MPs if what I love playing is Strafe?
    Why should I be forced to play CM/WW on my Wiz if what I love is Archon?

    So much is still wrong its silly. Every build should work on every MP. The only thing holding you back is supposed to be gear not the fact that your build sucks. Archon is my favorite but unless you are Bill Gates you will never see MP 9/10 as Archon simply because they class mechanics force you to play low MPs. You just cant maintain archon on anything higher than MP5 without a billion in Gear. I tried it with 500 mil gear and 400k DPS and MP 4 was all I could do and if I got shielding mobs I lost archon and then died to trash cause all my defense was gone. All the while Barbs with 20 mil are facerolling MP10 and I cant do it with half a bil.
    This brings up an interesting point that did not occur to me until now. Seems like Blizzard, maybe not just D3 but other Blizzard games, has moved away from allowing you full character customization so that class and spec balances are not top priority as your not "stuck" into any particular build in any aspect of the game until they can finally balance it.

  11. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    The problem is while its better there is still ZERO balance among classes and even less among builds.

    For example Barbs can solo MP 10 ubers with 15 mil gear. Try that on a DH? Hell try MP 6/7 on a DH with 15 mil in gear.

    Also class builds need to be looked at again.
    Why should I be forced to play Calamity Grenades/Trap on my DH for higher MPs if what I love playing is Strafe?
    Why should I be forced to play CM/WW on my Wiz if what I love is Archon?
    Because D2 builds were totally balanced? Oh wait, no, there were 2 or 3 cookie cutters per class everyone ran with.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Because D2 builds were totally balanced? Oh wait, no, there were 2 or 3 cookie cutters per class everyone ran with.
    So?

    Even if there is cookie cutter specs, something that will exist in any game you can spec or chose skills in, doesn't exclue the fun for people who like to play around with builds that are not "best". The people who find the "best" builds are usually the once enjoying to try stuff out and by eliminating that part of the RPG Blizzard is alienating a portion of their potential customer base, something they obviously did the cost analysis of and realize they would make more money by making their games lack complexity and be user friendly with as little choice as possible.

    They are obviously free to change direction like that if they so chose but no one should be surprised when a fair few people are left disappointed as they expected something totally different.
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  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    In other words, you didn't want Diablo 3, you wanted a shinier remake of Diablo 2.
    I would RUSH to the store to buy an upgraded version of D2 with better graphics and some boosts to endgame.

  14. #674
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    I would RUSH to the store to buy an upgraded version of D2 with better graphics and some boosts to endgame.
    Sure but I would rush to the store if they simply said ''We are now scrapping D3 and remaking it once more''

  15. #675
    D3 failed because it failed to properly reward players for playing. Players would farm for 10 hours, 100 hours, 500 hours, and not find an upgrade, and then go to the auction house and find an upgrade in 2 minutes. This taught players that farming is a waste of time and its about playing the auction house. Not many people who would pick up D3 find that fun, so most left. The end.

  16. #676
    The Patient Arainie's Avatar
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    It never failed, even though it didn't manage to live up to the high expectations people had on it.

  17. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Even if there is cookie cutter specs, something that will exist in any game you can spec or chose skills in, doesn't exclue the fun for people who like to play around with builds that are not "best".
    Yes, but they shouldn't whine about it like the guy did. In D2, there were a lot of underdog builds, and most people playing them would struggle in Normal or NM and would get trouble clearing hell. Same thing here: not all classes or builds are MP10 viable, which is fine.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Same thing here: not all classes or builds are MP10 viable, which is fine.
    The argument for scraping the old talent system was to avoid locking the player in to a unplayable class/spec with the flexibility to make most if not all builds viable, and surely all classes, if one class isn't MP10 viable then you should be able to ask for a refund as the game is broken.
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  19. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    The argument for scraping the old talent system was to avoid locking the player in to a unplayable class/spec with the flexibility to make most if not all builds viable, and surely all classes, if one class isn't MP10 viable then you should be able to ask for a refund as the game is broken.
    I'm sorry I don't get you here. The problem of the old talent system was a) that you couldn't change it before patch 1.12 (?) and b) that because of synergies, you ended up with one main skills and 3 or 4 more maxed to support it. Exceptions were few and far between. Now if THAT is not broken, I don't know what is.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    I'm sorry I don't get you here. The problem of the old talent system was a) that you couldn't change it before patch 1.12 (?) and b) that because of synergies, you ended up with one main skills and 3 or 4 more maxed to support it. Exceptions were few and far between. Now if THAT is not broken, I don't know what is.
    And the current system differs how you think? You still focus on one or at most two main abilities and the rest to enhance damage or survivability, something that would be equally broken according to your way of looking at it, just that you don't have much choice with the new system.

    To see how the talent system could be evolved look at PoE where they offer huge depth and player choice when it comes to passive talents and skills.
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