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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Well, then, that would make the base skills incredibly boring. If it were to work the way I'm thinking, you'd have the base skills we have now, without the runes. Then, you'd have runes drop that modified the skills you used. Either these runes were aesthetic and didn't affect gamplay, or they were necessary to increase your skills' abilities.

    Now, if you had the skills AND the runes we have now, PLUS the dropped runes, then yeah, it would be fun. But from what I gather, that's not the way it worked before.
    No, they were pretty much the same as the spells we have now, except you could modify them differently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1mQmy8ZMuY
    I can't seem to find the actual video I'm looking for, though.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    Also, it's should HAVE. NOT "should of". "Should of" doesn't even make sense. If you think you should own a cat, do you say "I should of a cat" or "I should have a cat"? Do you HAVE cats, or do you OF cats?

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by overseer666 View Post
    It's really almost like the developers of D3 never played D2. There are obvious components which made D2 a success, and gave it amazing replay value.

    1) The ability to screw up your character's development.
    -I know I'm not the only one who leveled up 500 characters because I wanted to try different builds, go through different skill trees, and allocate stats in more efficient ways. It was fun to make your baby, and it was quick thanks to rushing through the game and getting to Baal/cow runs. Your goal was to make a build that was better than every other player, or as good as the best players.
    -Diablo 3 took that aspect away, and I don't know why. Once you make a barbarian in Diablo 3, that is the ONLY barbarian you will EVER have to make. Aside from gear, all barbarians have the SAME stats, and SAME skills available to them. Where is the replay value in that? All that's left to do is get gear....which can be obtained with real money in a couple minutes.

    2)Community
    -Having 8 players in a game, all running through challenges with each other (who am i kidding, running through Baal runs) was a fun way to play the game with several people at once. There is much more diversity in the classes you could play with at once, by having larger games. This also falls into the losing character customizing issue.....if you're a barbarian...any other barbarian in the game has EXACTLY the same build you do. There is no chance that you are built for WW and the other is built for Fury.
    -Diablo 3 cuts the group size in half...for?...reason?...because the developers never played D2, that's why.
    -I'll throw PvP into this category as well. Honestly, having PvP in the blood moor in random PvP games was stupid fun. You could test yourself against other random players, or just be a complete ass (but no matter how strong you are...there is somebody stronger. So those people died too). You met people in these games, who were also interested in PvP builds, and developed friends (or enemies).
    -Personally....I don't remember anyone I talked to in the random Diablo 3 games I played...if I talked to them at all.

    3) Auction House
    - WHAT THE ****
    -People have talked about the problems with this, so I'll just leave it at that.

    Developers are deviating more and more from the sandbox style of games like Diablo 2 was, to a rigid "you play the way we tell you to play" style of game like Diablo 3 is. If i want to make a poison Necromancer instead of a Bone necromancer, that's my decision, and I don't think EVERY other necromancer out there should be able to see my success, and simply change his skills around to match mine. He should have to make his character from scratch as well!
    If I want to have a crazy manapool compared to everyone else, then I'll poar all my stat points into energy, and have more than the other necromancers I play with.
    I don't understand how the developers screwed this up. They could LITERALLY have made Diablo 3, Diablo 2 with better graphics, and it would have been more of a success than Diablo 3 was. Not everything has to become WoW.
    To counter your points:

    1) Unlike you, the idea of having to re-roll cause all the effort I made was screwed up after 5, 10, even 20+ hours, due to a mis-click or something is NOT fun. It's why I only ever had 1 of any Diablo 2 class. I wasn't interested in doing it again just to play differently. Having to plan the character out completely in advance isn't fun, it's tedious. Not all of us did "rushing". Frankly, that wasn't you leveling a toon, that was you getting carried to try a different build cause you couldn't arsed to level the toon. Same complaints everyone has with leveling alts in WoW, "It takes too long". Second reason for the change: EVERYTHING is saved server-side, a bit more limited in space (hence the 10 character limit per account per region). Infinite space doesn't exist. Plus, I'll wager the size of one Diablo 3 character is significantly larger than a Diablo 2 (which are maybe kilobytes in size).

    2) Design choices are just that. I hear everyone who touts the greatness of the old Diablo 2 team that made Torchlight... oh wait, they made a SINGLE-PLAYER ONLY ARPG. Not even with LAN support for multiplayer. 4 people is more than enough. I never played with more than maybe 2-3 friends top as it was. 8 people in a game would just seem too busy, plus, with open loot, can see anything good get jacked. And no, it doesn't fall into the customization issue. A tank and a WW Barb are not the same. There is a variety of builds, per class. Not all are optimal, but depending on gear and MP level, all are viable. PvP, I couldn't care less for, not my style of gameplay I am interested in, period. As to talking in random games... welcome to THIS generation. The newer gamers of this generation aren't here to talk, they are here to get what they came for, screw you over if possible, move on. Same people you run in to in Call of Duty, LFR/LFG groups in WoW, and any other online multiplayer game where the worst-of-the-worst of the internet can rear their ugly head. They are only in the multiplayer for THEIR benefit, not yours.

    3) Auction House... I refer to you the 3rd party sites that nearly ran the same services, except it was unsafe and unreliable. Auction House gave a secure way to buy/sell items that didn't revolve around trading with someone in-game, especially when it came to real-money, after sending them cash via paypal or CC and getting nothing. It was done with the intentions of preventing scammers.

    As to your last statement... If it had literally been Diablo 2 with better graphics, you know what would have started? A whole ton of flaming for the last year of how "The game was nothing new", "I could have saved myself $50 and just played Diablo 2", "WTF Blizz?! 12 Years for the same game?!", and so on. Not everyone is gonna be happy, and frankly, the singular largest group of people at fault for being unhappy with Diablo 3 are the Diablo 2 die-hards who wanted to see everything new and shiny AND YET be exactly like it was, and were not going to be happy unless both were met... well news flash, you can't have both. It's either the way it was OR it's new and different. Bashiok himself outright told people not to hype the game up so much about 2 months prior to release... Still happened. Playerbase's fault, not developers.

    Any of the points you made above, barring possible the social parts, go back and see how "enjoyable" they are to do in Diablo 2 now. Old games are great for their nostalgia, but sure as hell are not great once you look past those fond memories. Without relying on Baal/Cow Level runs, how many times would you have leveled a toon in Diablo 2, to try a different build?
    Last edited by ZeroEdgeir; 2013-04-03 at 09:36 PM.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  3. #643
    Diablo 3 failed. All gamers and diablo fans know that. Lost or dumb folks still can't aknowledge that, but this kind can't aknowledge anything ever.

    And how can Darksithis say "Too many people didn't take the time to research just what games like the Diablo series are" if he himself didn't research and is defending the game? The vast majority of diablo-like fans considered D3 a failure, way worse than d2 itself. Go check any forum or site from diablo-like fans, like Diablo.incgamers. Is he trolling or something? Why is a moderator trolling over something he doesn't understand? To collect post counts and mark his (disgusting) presence?

    Infracted: Please refrain from personal attacks or generalizing
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2013-04-03 at 10:26 PM.

  4. #644
    Bloodsail Admiral Lethey Alexandros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    To counter your points:

    1) Unlike you, the idea of having to re-roll cause all the effort I made was screwed up after 5, 10, even 20+ hours, due to a mis-click or something is NOT fun. It's why I only ever had 1 of any Diablo 2 class. I wasn't interested in doing it again just to play differently. Having to plan the character out completely in advance isn't fun, it's tedious. Not all of us did "rushing". Frankly, that wasn't you leveling a toon, that was you getting carried to try a different build cause you couldn't arsed to level the toon. Same complaints everyone has with leveling alts in WoW, "It takes too long". Second reason for the change: EVERYTHING is saved server-side, a bit more limited in space (hence the 10 character limit per account per region). Infinite space doesn't exist. Plus, I'll wager the size of one Diablo 3 character is significantly larger than a Diablo 2 (which are maybe kilobytes in size).

    2) Design choices are just that. I hear everyone who touts the greatness of the old Diablo 2 team that made Torchlight... oh wait, they made a SINGLE-PLAYER ONLY ARPG. Not even with LAN support for multiplayer. 4 people is more than enough. I never played with more than maybe 2-3 friends top as it was. 8 people in a game would just seem too busy, plus, with open loot, can see anything good get jacked. And no, it doesn't fall into the customization issue. A tank and a WW Barb are not the same. There is a variety of builds, per class. Not all are optimal, but depending on gear and MP level, all are viable. PvP, I couldn't care less for, not my style of gameplay I am interested in, period. As to talking in random games... welcome to THIS generation. The newer gamers of this generation aren't here to talk, they are here to get what they came for, screw you over if possible, move on. Same people you run in to in Call of Duty, LFR/LFG groups in WoW, and any other online multiplayer game where the worst-of-the-worst of the internet can rear their ugly head. They are only in the multiplayer for THEIR benefit, not yours.

    3) Auction House... I refer to you the 3rd party sites that nearly ran the same services, except it was unsafe and unreliable. Auction House gave a secure way to buy/sell items that didn't revolve around trading with someone in-game, especially when it came to real-money, after sending them cash via paypal or CC and getting nothing. It was done with the intentions of preventing scammers.

    As to your last statement... If it had literally been Diablo 2 with better graphics, you know what would have started? A whole ton of flaming for the last year of how "The game was nothing new", "I could have saved myself $50 and just played Diablo 2", "WTF Blizz?! 12 Years for the same game?!", and so on. Not everyone is gonna be happy, and frankly, the singular largest group of people at fault for being unhappy with Diablo 3 are the Diablo 2 die-hards who wanted to see everything new and shiny AND yet be exactly like it was, and were not going to be happy unless both were met... well news flash, you can't have both. It's either the way it was OR it's new and different.
    D1 and D2 set a standard of expectation from the IP. What people are bitching about is a deviation from the IP's standard to a buggy, rushed product that had a fraction of what it was said it would have when it was announced.

    D1 and D2 are known for being long, D3 was incredibly short.

    D1 and D2 had a very deep since of character creation, D3 is cookie cutter.

    simply put, D3 did not live up to what people came to expect the IP to deliver.

  5. #645
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Diablo III had many flaws but I don't think it failed as badly as say SWTOR. I still have it but haven't played due to lack of interest. I had fun with it but I think the game itself much like WoW lacks customization. I know it's a crazy concept but CUSTOMIZATION helps. Yeah replayability is awesome to but you get my point.


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  6. #646
    diablo 2 was TOO STRONK, diablo 3 couldn't live upto the hype that comes with following such a game.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Magemaer View Post
    Diablo 3 failed. All gamers and diablo fans know that. Lost or dumb folks still can't aknowledge that, but this kind can't aknowledge anything ever.
    Yeah, let's not attack others that don't agree with you. "Blizzard haters know that the game was a success, they can't face the facts." Did I do it right?

    And how can Darksithis say "Too many people didn't take the time to research just what games like the Diablo series are" if he himself didn't research and is defending the game? The vast majority of diablo-like fans considered D3 a failure, way worse than d2 itself. Go check any forum or site from diablo-like fans, like Diablo.incgamers. Is he trolling or something? Why is a moderator trolling over something he doesn't understand? To collect post counts and mark his (disgusting) presence?
    1.) Again, just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're an idiot, trolling you, or "marking his disgusting presence".
    2.) I wouldn't insult moderators for no good reason.

    I'm amazed by all the faulty logic going on in these forums. But then again, I really shouldn't be...

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by icedwarrior View Post
    I remember reading about people's expectations pre-launch, and reading into the blue post about how we should "dial back our excitement" (paraphrasing), and how this suddenly meant the game was shit. People *seem* to expect perfection from Blizzard, and if they don't get it, it's a shit game. That's what I'm tired of. Hell, I don't play WoW, or any Blizzard games, and haven't for almost a year now. I can't speak for PoE, but I've heard exceptional things about it. As previously stated, I haven't played PoE, so I'm legitimately curious how well it would be received if Blizzard had made it instead. Not saying Torchlight is bad / whatever, but it seems it gets / got fans for simply not being Blizzard-made.
    Fair enough. I think PoE would be received very well, regardless of who made it and I feel I can summarize why it's so good in 4 points.

    1. The skill tree. If you've ever played Final Fantasy 10, they basically ripped off the sphere grid and improved on it. If you haven't seen it, I think words don't quite get the point across, so I'm just gonna link the passive skill tree calculator from their main site. http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree

    That's the level of customization we're talking about here. It borders on the insane. And note, some of those passives are game changing, such as Chaos Inoculation, which permanently reduces your max health to 1, but makes you immune to chaos damage, a damage type that bypasses energy shields, or Resolute Technique, which makes you unable to crit, but makes your attacks always hit.

    2. Endgame. To explain endgame, I have to explain items a tad bit. PoE's items are similar to D3, in that they can be white, blue, yellow, or orange. This determines the number of affixes they can have. Blues can have up to 2 affixes and yellows can have up to 6. The highest level area in PoE is 63, but there's these items that drop in high level areas called maps. Basically, you go into this room in town, you click on the map in your inventory and it spawns a bunch of portals that take you to the map. Each map item has a level, (goes all the way up to 100, but it's almost impossibly grindy to get level 100 maps) which determines the level of the mobs inside. Each map is a randomly generated zone based on one of the zones in the regular game. Maps, just like other items, can drop with a rarity level, which gives them affixes. The affixes apply either to the players or the monsters. Affixes also add increased quantity, (basically magic find, more drops etc) based on how much difficulty the affix adds. So, for example "monsters gain 30% physical resistance" gives 6% quantity, while "players cannot regenerate life or mana" gives 30% increased quantity. This opens up the potential for extreme difficulty, and there's very much a risk vs reward factor there.

    3. Skill gems. Every attack or active ability comes in the form of a gem. In PoE, there are no passive gems like the + strength gems in D3. Sockets on gear are entirely there for skills. Gear can have up to 6 sockets, (depending on slot) and sockets can be linked. When sockets are linked, certain gems, (called support gems) modify what other types of gems do. For example, if you link a poison arrow gem to a greater multiple projectiles gem, you shoot 5 poison arrows instead of 1.

    4. Currency. There is no gold in PoE. There are many kinds of currency items, and they all have a purpose. The most basic kind is a wisdom scroll, these allow you to ID items. Most types of currency can be converted to a higher type at a vendor, albeit with an unfavorable ratio. To give some other examples of currency; orbs of transmutation turn white items into blues, orbs of alteration randomize the affixes on a blue item, regal orbs turn a blue item into a yellow and add 1 property, exalted orbs add a property to yellow items. The list goes on and on. This currency, effectively, has a permanent lasting value. A chaos orb will always be worth 2 orbs of alchemy. This cannot depreciate with market saturation or time or even with new content.

    I could list a dozen other ways that I think PoE is better but those are the main ones. Not to say PoE doesn't have flaws, because it totally does, the biggest of which is probably how complicated it is. I can't see a casual player ever sticking with this game. The currency alone would be a turn off to most people.
    Last edited by OrcsRLame; 2013-04-04 at 08:30 AM.

  9. #649
    D3 is a cool game. Whiners are addicted to misery, that's all.

  10. #650
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    The main strength of the game is its looks, I would say smooth gameplay but because of always online 200ping that is not the case in my experience.
    Itemization is to simple and lacks enough depth, AH forced low loot drop rates making the loot experience feel unrewarding beyond the first play through.

    Overall it was worth my money so I qualify it as a success.

  11. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    It felt to linear, I dont know if I am recalling this right but didnt diablo 2 have tons of side quests you could do in addition to the main story quests? I havent played D2 in years but I remember there being more to do in the realm of questing.

    I loved the customization D2 had, make a necro with infinate mana who could summon enough skeletons to crash other peoples game clients. That was fun lol.
    There were quests that were not required to open up the next chapter, I guess you could say they were more optional than side quests. I believe they traded that for some of the dynamic events in D3.

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    To counter your points:

    1) Unlike you, the idea of having to re-roll cause all the effort I made was screwed up after 5, 10, even 20+ hours, due to a mis-click or something is NOT fun. It's why I only ever had 1 of any Diablo 2 class. I wasn't interested in doing it again just to play differently. Having to plan the character out completely in advance isn't fun, it's tedious. Not all of us did "rushing". Frankly, that wasn't you leveling a toon, that was you getting carried to try a different build cause you couldn't arsed to level the toon. Same complaints everyone has with leveling alts in WoW, "It takes too long". Second reason for the change: EVERYTHING is saved server-side, a bit more limited in space (hence the 10 character limit per account per region). Infinite space doesn't exist. Plus, I'll wager the size of one Diablo 3 character is significantly larger than a Diablo 2 (which are maybe kilobytes in size).

    2) Design choices are just that. I hear everyone who touts the greatness of the old Diablo 2 team that made Torchlight... oh wait, they made a SINGLE-PLAYER ONLY ARPG. Not even with LAN support for multiplayer. 4 people is more than enough. I never played with more than maybe 2-3 friends top as it was. 8 people in a game would just seem too busy, plus, with open loot, can see anything good get jacked. And no, it doesn't fall into the customization issue. A tank and a WW Barb are not the same. There is a variety of builds, per class. Not all are optimal, but depending on gear and MP level, all are viable. PvP, I couldn't care less for, not my style of gameplay I am interested in, period. As to talking in random games... welcome to THIS generation. The newer gamers of this generation aren't here to talk, they are here to get what they came for, screw you over if possible, move on. Same people you run in to in Call of Duty, LFR/LFG groups in WoW, and any other online multiplayer game where the worst-of-the-worst of the internet can rear their ugly head. They are only in the multiplayer for THEIR benefit, not yours.

    3) Auction House... I refer to you the 3rd party sites that nearly ran the same services, except it was unsafe and unreliable. Auction House gave a secure way to buy/sell items that didn't revolve around trading with someone in-game, especially when it came to real-money, after sending them cash via paypal or CC and getting nothing. It was done with the intentions of preventing scammers.

    As to your last statement... If it had literally been Diablo 2 with better graphics, you know what would have started? A whole ton of flaming for the last year of how "The game was nothing new", "I could have saved myself $50 and just played Diablo 2", "WTF Blizz?! 12 Years for the same game?!", and so on. Not everyone is gonna be happy, and frankly, the singular largest group of people at fault for being unhappy with Diablo 3 are the Diablo 2 die-hards who wanted to see everything new and shiny AND YET be exactly like it was, and were not going to be happy unless both were met... well news flash, you can't have both. It's either the way it was OR it's new and different. Bashiok himself outright told people not to hype the game up so much about 2 months prior to release... Still happened. Playerbase's fault, not developers.

    Any of the points you made above, barring possible the social parts, go back and see how "enjoyable" they are to do in Diablo 2 now. Old games are great for their nostalgia, but sure as hell are not great once you look past those fond memories. Without relying on Baal/Cow Level runs, how many times would you have leveled a toon in Diablo 2, to try a different build?
    You make some good points, but i guess it's just a a matter of opinion on how a person likes to play the game.

    1) Having the option of being "rushed", was simply a way of bypassing the content of the game, to try out new builds. You mentioned that it wasn't fun to play 20 hours with a character, and then feel like you screwed up a stat, and have to remake him. "Rushing" was a way around that. You could get a character to level 80 in only a few hours. I have to say, even after going through the game 100 times, I still enjoyed playing through it with a new build legitimately every now and then, just to see what the game experience would be with that character. Not everybody enjoys trying out different builds that other people might not have thought of, but it's a strong contributor to what I enjoyed about Diablo 2.
    The game makes character creation very simple, which to many people, is a good thing. But there are positives and negatives to it. It's true that you cannot screw a character up, and any investment you put into that character, will not be a waste. It's also true that no matter how much you play, or how much effort you put into the game, your demon hunter will be exactly like every other demon hunter in the game, with the exception of equipment. That aspect takes away a lot of the fun for me. It's also a contributor to why D2 has far more re playability than D3. There were many many different combinations of skills and stats that you could assign, which gives you the potential of creating several of the same class. In D3, there is only one combination. Once you have made that class, you've "won".

    2) Unfortunately you're right on many points here. Gamers today are deviating less and less from social interaction within games. I've done a lot of reading on why older games like Everquest, had such a strong community, and left people with such strong connections, as opposed to games like WoW. The big thing is the amount of interaction you have with the game. WoW requires you to be CONSTANTLY pushing a button, with very little downtime, whereas Everquest was much slower, and required much less button pushing. These pauses caused people to interact with each other...because really....what else were you going to do? lol.
    Even though both D2 and D3 are fast paced games, D2 catered far more to socializing with others. In just my experience, I had no reason to talk to anyone during my time with D3. There were no chat channels in which people were discussing the game, there was simply "join a game". Then once I was in the game, everything was so fast paced, it was just a matter of getting the job done, and leaving the game.
    Having 8 people in the game never seemed too busy to me with D2. I can understand that they wanted to balance the game around 4 people per game. But really...reducing the amount of people you can play with at once, only acts to reduce the amount of people you can interact with at once.
    I won't comment on PvP. It isn't for everybody. For those who did enjoy it in D2, I'm sure they remember sitting in town and ranting about some jerk outside who was killing everyone. People would team up, and form alliances against the jerk (and often still die haha). If nothing else, it gave the feeling that you were playing with other people in a multiplayer game, than just playing a single player game, that just happened to have some other people in it sometimes.

    3) I can go both ways on this point. I agree that having a secure way to trade real money for items is a better option than third party sites, which could just be scamming you. On the other hand....having NO item sales for real money is even better.
    At least with having no AH, it was only a small minority of people who would actually use these third parties, to obtain their items. With the AH, enough people do it, that it takes away from the rewarding feeling you get when you do your 900th meph run (you all remember those), and finally get an item you REALLY want. You could have just bought it for a couple bucks. This also takes away from the longevity of the game. I spent a STUPID amount of time doing meph runs, to try and get items. Now that people don't have to do that, they don't have a reason to keep playing.

    They didn't need to make it JUST Diablo 2 with better graphics. You are correct, that would have been a waste of money. They should have kept the recipe of how the game played though. It was a standard of play which has been set by the series itself, and they changed it. It's not the same framework as the other Diablo games. A new story, with better graphics, and a few extra classes to choose from, would have made a LOT more people a LOT happier.

  13. #653
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    Idk I think people just overhype D2 and what it actually was. I myself probably played something like ~1000 hours of D2 in my life.
    (Some people on here sound like they spent more than ten times that. I have to question your definition of "fun" then.)

    It was something like:
    ~200hrs when it came out
    ~200hrs when the expansion came out
    ~50hrs every year.

    On and off, always with friends, sometimes after a ladder reset.
    It was a solid LAN title and a fun game to pick up now and then but nothing I would play continuously (for example like MMOs which usually net 10hr+/week).

    I can also tell you why I didn't play more D2. The game has extremely little content. I'm pretty sure I could rush the original D2 Hell (probably even with the expansion) on my own in way less than 10 hours on most classes (softcore of course).

    Endgame D2 is EXTREMELY repetitive: Teleport to Andy/Meph/Baal => Portal for group => Kill => Loot => Restart.

    So yea I played D3 when I came out for ~200hrs. Beat inferno on all classes (softcore). Came close to beatin inferno on hardcore on my wizard (in 1.0.3 if that makes a difference to anyone). And then I quit. 50$ well spent (25c/hour). I will defniately get the expansion too when it comes out.

    Failed? Not in my book. Completely what I expected.
    Last edited by mmocb100f50513; 2013-04-04 at 02:36 PM.

  14. #654
    I think you've failed yourself as a gamer if you are trying to breakdown the amount of time you played and the money you spent in some kind of "equation of just how much fun per cent I've had". That shit is just sad.

    Diablo 3 failed me because not once did it give me that feeling of loot lust.
    Not once did I feel connected or responsible for my characters growth, I was more like some passenger riding along a monorail.
    Not once did I feel compelled by the story or any of it's characters, in fact I had to actively work towards pushing those things out of my mind.
    Not once did I feel like I was playing a diablo game.

    I could go on, but many people have articulated this point better then me.

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    I think you've failed yourself as a gamer if you are trying to breakdown the amount of time you played and the money you spent in some kind of "equation of just how much fun per cent I've had". That shit is just sad.

    Diablo 3 failed me because not once did it give me that feeling of loot lust.
    Not once did I feel connected or responsible for my characters growth, I was more like some passenger riding along a monorail.
    Not once did I feel compelled by the story or any of it's characters, in fact I had to actively work towards pushing those things out of my mind.
    Not once did I feel like I was playing a diablo game.

    I could go on, but many people have articulated this point better then me.
    i agree with this guy.

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by overseer666 View Post
    It's really almost like the developers of D3 never played D2. There are obvious components which made D2 a success, and gave it amazing replay value.

    1) The ability to screw up your character's development.
    -I know I'm not the only one who leveled up 500 characters because I wanted to try different builds, go through different skill trees, and allocate stats in more efficient ways. It was fun to make your baby, and it was quick thanks to rushing through the game and getting to Baal/cow runs. Your goal was to make a build that was better than every other player, or as good as the best players.
    -Diablo 3 took that aspect away, and I don't know why. Once you make a barbarian in Diablo 3, that is the ONLY barbarian you will EVER have to make. Aside from gear, all barbarians have the SAME stats, and SAME skills available to them. Where is the replay value in that? All that's left to do is get gear....which can be obtained with real money in a couple minutes.

    2)Community
    -Having 8 players in a game, all running through challenges with each other (who am i kidding, running through Baal runs) was a fun way to play the game with several people at once. There is much more diversity in the classes you could play with at once, by having larger games. This also falls into the losing character customizing issue.....if you're a barbarian...any other barbarian in the game has EXACTLY the same build you do. There is no chance that you are built for WW and the other is built for Fury.
    -Diablo 3 cuts the group size in half...for?...reason?...because the developers never played D2, that's why.
    -I'll throw PvP into this category as well. Honestly, having PvP in the blood moor in random PvP games was stupid fun. You could test yourself against other random players, or just be a complete ass (but no matter how strong you are...there is somebody stronger. So those people died too). You met people in these games, who were also interested in PvP builds, and developed friends (or enemies).
    -Personally....I don't remember anyone I talked to in the random Diablo 3 games I played...if I talked to them at all.

    3) Auction House
    - WHAT THE ****
    -People have talked about the problems with this, so I'll just leave it at that.

    Developers are deviating more and more from the sandbox style of games like Diablo 2 was, to a rigid "you play the way we tell you to play" style of game like Diablo 3 is. If i want to make a poison Necromancer instead of a Bone necromancer, that's my decision, and I don't think EVERY other necromancer out there should be able to see my success, and simply change his skills around to match mine. He should have to make his character from scratch as well!
    If I want to have a crazy manapool compared to everyone else, then I'll poar all my stat points into energy, and have more than the other necromancers I play with.
    I don't understand how the developers screwed this up. They could LITERALLY have made Diablo 3, Diablo 2 with better graphics, and it would have been more of a success than Diablo 3 was. Not everything has to become WoW.
    I disagree with 1 and 2.

    And I don't really agree with 3 either. It has positives and negatives. The choice to play without any auction house involved would completely remove any negative points regarding 3 for me.

    Ultimately, I disagree with you. So your "obvious this" and "obvious that" just makes me think games are designed around what you want, rather than realistically, what other people want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  17. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    Having to plan the character out completely in advance isn't fun, it's tedious. Not all of us did "rushing". Frankly, that wasn't you leveling a toon, that was you getting carried to try a different build cause you couldn't arsed to level the toon.
    This is only relevant if you're a min-maxer and are just interested in playing the game "right" the first and only time. Taking away choice also results in taking away replay or challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    I hear everyone who touts the greatness of the old Diablo 2 team that made Torchlight... oh wait, they made a SINGLE-PLAYER ONLY ARPG. Not even with LAN support for multiplayer.
    Multiplayer isn't just some switch you toggle, it has to be coded in as a feature on its own. And Runic has said that the first Torchlight game was a minimal project to get them working and drawing in money. Torchlight 1 worked out good enough for them, so that's why they were able to add in multiplayer for part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    3) Auction House... I refer to you the 3rd party sites that nearly ran the same services, except it was unsafe and unreliable. Auction House gave a secure way to buy/sell items that didn't revolve around trading with someone in-game, especially when it came to real-money, after sending them cash via paypal or CC and getting nothing. It was done with the intentions of preventing scammers.
    How many people actually did this? If they're willing to spend real money on a shady third-party website for virtual gear, then caveat emptor. And this has not gone away even with the inclusion of an official auction house. Though it has irrevocably changed the design of the whole PC version. I would be interested to see how many people will clamor to get an auction house added for the console version.

  18. #658
    Banned Beazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    I think you've failed yourself as a gamer if you are trying to breakdown the amount of time you played and the money you spent in some kind of "equation of just how much fun per cent I've had". That shit is just sad.

    Diablo 3 failed me because not once did it give me that feeling of loot lust.
    Not once did I feel connected or responsible for my characters growth, I was more like some passenger riding along a monorail.
    Not once did I feel compelled by the story or any of it's characters, in fact I had to actively work towards pushing those things out of my mind.
    Not once did I feel like I was playing a diablo game.

    I could go on, but many people have articulated this point better then me.
    I think you might have brain damage if you believe someone would spend more than 10 hours playing a video game that wasn't fun or entertaining. Good try though.

  19. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    I think you might have brain damage if you believe someone would spend more than 10 hours playing a video game that wasn't fun or entertaining. Good try though.
    Add another zero and get back to me.

  20. #660
    The problem is while its better there is still ZERO balance among classes and even less among builds.

    For example Barbs can solo MP 10 ubers with 15 mil gear. Try that on a DH? Hell try MP 6/7 on a DH with 15 mil in gear.

    Also class builds need to be looked at again.
    Why should I be forced to play Calamity Grenades/Trap on my DH for higher MPs if what I love playing is Strafe?
    Why should I be forced to play CM/WW on my Wiz if what I love is Archon?

    So much is still wrong its silly. Every build should work on every MP. The only thing holding you back is supposed to be gear not the fact that your build sucks. Archon is my favorite but unless you are Bill Gates you will never see MP 9/10 as Archon simply because they class mechanics force you to play low MPs. You just cant maintain archon on anything higher than MP5 without a billion in Gear. I tried it with 500 mil gear and 400k DPS and MP 4 was all I could do and if I got shielding mobs I lost archon and then died to trash cause all my defense was gone. All the while Barbs with 20 mil are facerolling MP10 and I cant do it with half a bil.
    Last edited by Lilly32; 2013-04-05 at 03:01 AM.

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