Why we should be allowed to resell games?

[DeltrusDisc]

I agree I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to sell games to someone else. If we take Blizzard for example and selling a WoW account, though rather than selling we can say trading. If we were to trade an account to someone else I think it should be possible by just making a ticket where you include scan of both your ID and the receivers ID. How hard can that be? This would make sure the owner is changed so that the old owner can't just make a ticket to get his account back saying it was hacked or something like that.

Why have I never seen this idea presented before? It's brilliant, though there is still chance for problems arising.

[Blackmist]

It would seem the EU has caught on, so frankly I expect these single use codes to end.

Even though the (freely creatable) account may not belong to me (XBL account belongs to MS, and they're free to ban it or delete all my points. Blizz own my WoW account and they're free to delete all my toons and gold), anything I attach to that account does belong to me, and I am now apparently free to resell it or give it to whoever I want. All we need now is companies to comply and allow it. And we should complain if they don't.

And yes, I do think this is acceptable. If Activision want to turn off the MW3 server when MW4 comes out, they're allowed to do that. But if I want to buy it second hand, I'm also allowed to do that and have the original owner transfer the online license. And if a game is online only, and I break their conditions without actually breaking any laws, I should be free to remove my game codes from that banned account and attach them to another. All that in-game progress is gone, but that's the price of cheating.

If people selling things second hand is "killing the industry", then the industry needs to take a long hard look at what it is doing. You can't just throw an infinite pile of money away and expect to get it back. Hollywood film makers won't stop me seeing the end of a film if I buy it second hand. If I buy a second hand car (yay!) I don't get half a car unless I pay Nissan a chunk of money. Why should games?

[slipn]

I can sell my home, cd's, art, tv, car, snowboard, hiking gear....

but they think they*game companies* are so special that I can't sell a game? Honestly this is a speak with your money situation.

[Korgoth]

So many hypocrites. You want to make money back selling off the game you purchased, they want everyone playing their game to have paid them for it. Yet you somehow feel your greed for resale money tops their desire to be compensated by everyone who plays the game they made.

Also the two games listed by the OP, Diablo 3 and SWTOR, are not products, but services. You don't sell a guy a car you leased; or a movie you got from Red Box.

[inux94]

New games = Buy it on Steam/Greenmangaming/Gamersgate
Old games which are no longer available at stores/steam = GOG.com/download it as a last resort. I'm against PC Gaming piracy but that's just the last resort sometimes

Resold games = money lost to the developer = how development companies get laid off

An example is Bastion, Dungeon Defenders or Orcs Must Die, all of them are made by small companies/indie devs which need every cent they can get, but with every resold game they lose money which further down the line brings the doom to the development team. One may argue that the customer needs to see what the product is, but all of the games listed (and most newer titles, if the dev team isn't stupid) have demo's available.

Selling games between friends is fine with me, as it's not widely popular but I always buy games that haven't been used, but when companies like GameStop start shitting publishers & development teams all over the face by reselling titles I'm almost disgusted. I haven't entered a GameStop/places reselling games in 8 months now, nor do I plan to do so, even if it was the last place on earth to buy games.

If you're the kind of guy who rants over problems with Diablo 3, wait a few months for a demo or watch gameplay from someone else, it isn't hard.

[Grraarrgghh]

So many hypocrites. You want to make money back selling off the game you purchased, they want everyone playing their game to have paid them for it. Yet you somehow feel your greed for resale money tops their desire to be compensated by everyone who plays the game they made.

Also the two games listed by the OP, Diablo 3 and SWTOR, are not products, but services. You don't sell a guy a car you leased; or a movie you got from Red Box.

What I came here to say.

Also, how much money do you honestly believe you would be able to make reselling games (not service access like D3 or SWTOR)?

I got $40 for all my 360 games when the damn thing died (again) last year, and that was a crapton of games. Reselling PC games seems like a pretty narrow market.

[Boogums]

I've been in this Intro to Business summer course this summer as an 8 week course, and just today, my teacher wanted to hit on stocks a bit and secondary markets. He mentioned how say you buy a 2012 Corvette for $50,000 and then something happens where they become really rare, and it goes up in value and you're able to sell it for $75,000 later on. The comparison isn't so much about things becoming rare or what not, but he talks about how the money obviously doesn't go back to the company, rather the new title owner.

Why can't this be the same with games going forward? More and more often lately, they've been making it harder and harder to resell games, whether to friends or Gamestop, etc. PC games have been the worst ever since the 90s, perhaps before? We already paid our fair share to the company and if we no longer wish to play said game, the latest big issue being Diablo 3 and how many people are displeased with that, the option isn't there for us to just sell it for a lower price to a store/friend. I am sure there is a way they could figure out to track and enable CD keys based on who is the new rightful owner, etc. Like, I personally would just love to sell this SWTOR disc for $20 or what have you, but the option isn't there.

What do you guys think?

When you buy a car, you own the car, so you can sell it if you like.

When you buy a game, you don't own the IP or the rights to the IP, so you can't sell it.

[The Ogdru Jahad]

I look at it this way. Netflix can buy a DVD for movie x for $20 and probably thanks to subscriptions etc etc make a killing return on lending it out hundreds of times. Why cant I sell my videogame? Why aren't movie companies pissed at netflix for stealing their money from new DVD sales.

It's just silly. But long gone are the days of going to target and getting a full game for $20. Companies cant expect the market to keep buying overpriced games at $60 everytime. They'll one day drop their prices. People are fed up with paying $60 for a cookie cutter CoD game. When it happens with more game titles. Shit will change.

[Boogums]

I look at it this way. Netflix can buy a DVD for movie x for $20 and probably thanks to subscriptions etc etc make a killing return on lending it out hundreds of times. Why cant I sell my videogame? Why aren't movie companies pissed at netflix for stealing their money from new DVD sales.

It's just silly. But long gone are the days of going to target and getting a full game for $20. Companies cant expect the market to keep buying overpriced games at $60 everytime. They'll one day drop their prices. People are fed up with paying $60 for a cookie cutter CoD game. When it happens with more game titles. Shit will change.

ROFL You actually think that's what they do? Sad. They don't just buy a DVD and stream it out, that's against federal law. They get permission from the rights holders (and then pay them) to stream their stuff. EVERY time someone watches something on Netflix, the rights holder of that movie gets paid.

Also, to all your who think $60 is a lot of money; $60 today is much less today than $50 was back in the 90s and early 2000s, so no, they don't need to drop their prices, they're already not making as much as they were, then.

[Grraarrgghh]

I look at it this way. Netflix can buy a DVD for movie x for $20 and probably thanks to subscriptions etc etc make a killing return on lending it out hundreds of times. Why cant I sell my videogame? Why aren't movie companies pissed at netflix for stealing their money from new DVD sales.

It's just silly. But long gone are the days of going to target and getting a full game for $20. Companies cant expect the market to keep buying overpriced games at $60 everytime. They'll one day drop their prices. People are fed up with paying $60 for a cookie cutter CoD game. When it happens with more game titles. Shit will change.

Terrible analogy.

Netflix pays a far far FAR FAR bigger fee than $20 per film. They have to license the rights of distribution to have it on their service, which I believe has a caveat based on how many views it gets while it's available on the service. Some films are only licensed for a certain period of time as well.

Also, when I bought NES games in the 80s they were ~$40-50, which by todays standards makes them FUCKING EXPENSIVE AS SHIT.

Some games cost millions of dollars in development costs. They are more than within their rights to try and at least recoup their expenditures.

[Korgoth]

I look at it this way. Netflix can buy a DVD for movie x for $20 and probably thanks to subscriptions etc etc make a killing return on lending it out hundreds of times. Why cant I sell my videogame? Why aren't movie companies pissed at netflix for stealing their money from new DVD sales.

It's just silly. But long gone are the days of going to target and getting a full game for $20. Companies cant expect the market to keep buying overpriced games at $60 everytime. They'll one day drop their prices. People are fed up with paying $60 for a cookie cutter CoD game. When it happens with more game titles. Shit will change.

People are not fed up with paying $60 for a cookie cutter CoD Game. That is a lie.
MW2 sold 12.8 million on the 360, 9.94 million on the PS3, and .74 million the PC.
BlOps sold 13.37 million on the 360, 11.37 on the PS3 and 1.37 on the PC,
MW3 sold 14.8 million on 360, 12 million on PS3 and 1.4 million of PC,

Every year the new CoD game has sold more copies on the major platforms then the previous game.

---------- Post added 2012-07-05 at 08:52 PM ----------

Terrible analogy.

Netflix pays a far far FAR FAR bigger fee than $20 per film. They have to license the rights of distribution to have it on their service, which I believe has a caveat based on how many views it gets while it's available on the service. Some films are only licensed for a certain period of time as well.

Also, when I bought NES games in the 80s they were ~$40-50, which by todays standards makes them FUCKING EXPENSIVE AS SHIT.

Some games cost millions of dollars in development costs. They are more than within their rights to try and at least recoup their expenditures.

Not really. For the DVD/Blu business they make a deal with the studio for X amount of Discs at Y cost with the usual caveat being they have to delay rental access until 30 days after the DVD is on the market. Netflix can get around that buying DvDs straight from a reseller like Best Buy or Amazon, but with the deal they are only playing a fraction of the cost of buying it on the open market.

They don't pay more then $20 a DvD lol. Not sure how you thought they would. For streaming they have to get the rights to it, and it is incredibly expensive, and has gotten more so since they saw success with it. But they don't just rip a blu ray and toss it up.

The real difference is a DvD is a set product that gives a set experience, which does not change. My copy of Iron Man is always going to be the same thing, and it will never require anything else from Paramount. Games released today are constantly changing and requiring services from their creator. A creator who then is supposed to provide service to someone who has provided nothing to them? Why should I have to provide a service to someone because he paid someone else? That's pretty stupid.

[shdwboxn]

If they do ever allow it in the US, the new owner just starts from square one (characters dont transfer etc). Easy. I think it should be allowed and likely would increase the playerbase. If someone is going to quit, they will regardless of what their initial investment was (sunk cost purchasing the game/expansions). Sure blizzard made their money selling the titles and expansion packs, but the real income is generated from the monthly subscription. If someone new is apprehensive/deterred about starting an account due to the initial costs, this would allow them to get in the door cheaply (even if Blizzard doesnt make a profit on the transaction) but they would ultimately come out ahead with the monthly subscriptions.

Take printers, for example. Today they are pretty damn cheap. but after a couple of months the starter ink/toner cartridges run out. When you go to purchase more, often its the same (or more) as the cost of the entire printer. Its a great business model. The printer is worthless without the ink/toner. To Blizzard, the game is worthless without subscribers. Let new players purchase "used" game licenses. The subscription fee is where the money is made.

[Grraarrgghh]

Not really. For the DVD/Blu business they make a deal with the studio for X amount of Discs at Y cost with the usual caveat being they have to delay rental access until 30 days after the DVD is on the market. Netflix can get around that buying DvDs straight from a reseller like Best Buy or Amazon, but with the deal they are only playing a fraction of the cost of buying it on the open market.

They don't pay more then $20 a DvD lol. Not sure how you thought they would. For streaming they have to get the rights to it, and it is incredibly expensive, and has gotten more so since they saw success with it. But they don't just rip a blu ray and toss it up.

Ah my bad. In Canada Netflix doesn't offer their mail-order service and I have become accustomed to thinking of them primarily as a streaming provider.

So yes, just like mostly now defunct video stores, they pay the standard MSRP for the initial Bluray/DVD discs for the mail-order end (which is far superior to the bum deal video stores used to get paying ~$100 for a VHS on release).

[hellosaltygoodness]

because it is the most basic right you have as a consumer, that you will gain title over an item that you have purchased, and the seller will no longer own it or have any right to it. if you choose to sell your own property, that is your right. if you are able to sell it for more than purchased it for - that is also your right, and good job on you.

rather than progressing forward, we are actually regressing to some medieval feudal situation where the lords, the corporations, own all the property, but we, the serfs, are allowed to own nothing, and instead we eternally rent from the lords and pay them dues. us poor serfs are being divested of our right to own property all over again.

[Grraarrgghh]

because it is the most basic right you have as a consumer, that you will gain title over an item that you have purchased, and the seller will no longer own it or have any right to it. if you choose to sell your own property, that is your right. if you are able to sell it for more than purchased it for - that is also your right, and good job on you.

rather than progressing forward, we are actually regressing to some medieval feudal situation where the lords, the corporations, own all the property, but we, the serfs, are allowed to own nothing, and instead we eternally rent from the lords and pay them dues. us poor serfs are being divested of our right to own property all over again.

Then stop clicking "Accept" on the ToS box.

Simple answer.

[Drekker17]

I think digital resell is ok. I think companies should look at it as a better alternative than physical, with physical they can't really earn any money from a used sell, but with digital they can get a cut from your sell, because they more likely will be providing the service (or steam who will pay them too likely) to insure that their is only 1 copy still in the world, and the old owner has none.

[hellosaltygoodness]

Then stop clicking "Accept" on the ToS box.

Simple answer.

bro, i never even get to the point where i have to decline a TOS, as i don't buy from exploitative companies in the first place. if there is a game i want that has a TOS on it, i pirate it. if i won't be owning something, thats fine, but i won't be paying for it either. the only game i've ever paid for with a TOS is wow, and when i'm done with that, i am absolutely reselling my account, i wouldn't even think of not doing so.

[Lyriok]

Well on greenmangamingyou can sell certain games for store credit I think so it is possible to sell digital stuff.

I agree we should be able to sell games we no longer want just like console players can. I think publishers are just too greedy to even allow that to happen since they are not getting any of the cut.

I understand where they come from but personally. Once we purchase it, that single copy is now our property and we should be able to do what we want with it. In an extreme it's like saying if you buy eggs you can ONLY use them to bake a cake.

[Grraarrgghh]

bro, i never even get to the point where i have to decline a TOS, as i don't buy from exploitative companies in the first place. if there is a game i want that has a TOS on it, i pirate it. if i won't be owning something, thats fine, but i won't be paying for it either. the only game i've ever paid for with a TOS is wow, and when i'm done with that, i am absolutely reselling my account, i wouldn't even think of not doing so.

Way to stick it to the man.

[Deleted]

In the EU WoW has to allow me to sell the code that comes with the disc to activate them, so I dont really need luck

That is not correct, and you should read the ruling instead of sensationalist websites claiming you will be able to sell Steam games and the like, the ruling specifically says when you are given "unlimited" access to the product, this would work when you buy a standalone product like the system from Oracle which was the motive for the ruling, or one of those indie bundles that can be downloaded, you are given "unlimited" access to the product, and you can resell it, even if it was downloaded as an ACTIVATED copy the company that has provided the system cannot reasonably stop you from getting an access key to resell again as long as your access is unlimited to the product which implies when you have it on your machine disc or download you can access it unrestricted at any time.

Steam, Origin, WoW, and whatnot does not give you unlimited access to the product you buy your account needs to be licensed to access the content and you need to connect to their service to be able to access the game, so in reality there might be a legal argument that you could sell the actual CD key and the game discs, but that doesnt mean you are allowed to actually sell or pass your license to use the product to another person unless it is in the terms of use of the service.

As someone mentioned with the stupid Car analogy, you cannot sell a car you rented from a rent-a-car company, you only own a license to drive it, it doesnt mean you can resell it on without them authorizing it.