Mogging Legendaries - Real Discussion

[smegdawg]

I am impartial to being able to transmog weapons to look like legendaries, but If I had to choose a side it would be to let them be moggable. The idea to me that everyone would be running around with transmogged legendaries is unreasonable.

Many of the people I play with prefer to be unique little snowflakes and want their transmog set to stand out because it is different, or rarely seen, or funny.

If legendaries were made moggable, sure for the first few weeks afterwards I am sure we would see people mogging them, for the sake of mogging them. But after standing in the AH and seeing 10 other toons with Thunderfury, or running a LFR and bumping into 6 other batman winged rogues, the "allure" of transmogging an orange would go down.

Not knowing how legendaries are going to work in Mist's I will use the previous model of only legendary weapons. I have had my DWT since early February and am really sick of it. The sets I want to use either don't work with it, or are rather difficult to obtain. What I would like is the ability to transmog a legendary to look like another weapon.

This may be even more of an issue if you make your chest piece legendary, but then can never transmog it so every single sete you make as to incorporate the legendary chest into it.

TL;DR Make it possible to transmog into and out of legendaries.

[Deleted]

Again, the whole, this item is unique/important to lore is quite subjective. The blade fist from kargath is a pretty rare drop, was the namesake of a very important character in horde lore, and is mogged way less than most other items, despite it being a neat model. So what is the difference between that relatively rare weapon being able to get mogged and t-fury not being able to be? There is no difference. They are both ridiculously easy to farm if you have patience. You guys in favor of the current transmog model are just splitting hairs.

My shaman got that fist weapon first run teehee ^__^... cannot wait for the restriction to be removed in MoP

[Keile]

My Shadow's Edge isn't even legendary (yet)...I want to be able to use it to Transmog other axes T_T

[axeplay]

My shaman got that fist weapon first run teehee ^__^... cannot wait for the restriction to be removed in MoP

Grats on that. I got exalted with Thrallmar before I got mine. Post your sweet transmog for it when/if 1h restrictions change.

[Jaojin]

You say you want legendaries to be scarcely seen right, well won't there won't be any more legenadries seen that are already seen. The only time someone brings out a legendary now a days is just to run around org to show it off. Other than that no one will ever see one.

I and a few other shield tanks I know tank with Thunderfury in Heroic DS dungeons. I also use Thunderfury to offtank on Sinestra (so I don't kill the whelps too soon,) your blanket statement is invalid.

I earned my Orange weapons, I should be able to mogg it too!

What Legendary did you "Earn?" To be honest, the legendary daggers and staff from this expansion are pretty easy to get because there isn't as much competition in a 10 man group. A Sulfuras or Thunderfury in classic had a crap ton of mats (including hundreds of bars of Arcanite or Dark Iron each being far more rare than these days.) Blades of Azzinoth (especially a pair) and the longbow were highly RNG and the content was seen by a much smaller % of the population. Shadowmourne and Val'nar still required you to do 25 man (meaning more competition, even if the creation of the legendary was similar to how it is today.) With the allowance of 10 man, it is guaranteed that at least one person in each raid group will get the Legendary, so long as they can run the content. Nothing compared to Atiesh, which just pulling one out gives you bragging rights over everyone who ever got any Legendary ever.

If you had one of the Legendaries that were difficult to create when they were difficult to create; then you don't need to be able to mog it, you were the big kahuna (and you don't need to be able to put it on your generic epic weapon to show that.) If you didn't obtain it when it was current or you were just the lucky person picked for the easier ones, then you didn't really earn anything.

I have 0 Legendaries that were created in current content (almost finished Shadowmourne before Cataclysm, but alas.) I'm neither fortunate nor hardcore; but I agree with the sentiment that your generic, run of the mill epics should not look like one of the pinnacle weapons of an expansion, and farming older content for a legendary certain doesn't give you any bragging rights other than you have too much time on your hands.

[Ryme]

Make it so you can only mog the legendary if you obtained it at a time when it was current content. They've done this for the early PvP sets, so the framework is certainly already there.

I'd be happy with that, I don't own any legendaries except the new daggers, and I seriously dislike the look of them so wouldn't use them any way. But I think others should be allowed to play around with the stunning weapons they earned all those moons ago.

[Vook]

If Legendaries were able to be transmogrified, every single rogue would have Warglaives, every warrior/DK/paladin would have either Shadowmourne or Thunderfury, and every single hunter would have Thori'Dal. When everyone has a legendary, they're not legendary anymore.

Make it so you can only mog the legendary if you obtained it at a time when it was current content. They've done this for the early PvP sets, so the framework is certainly already there.

It'd be kinda hard to track that with pre-wotlk legendaries, unless they're able to check quest turn-in dates for things like thunderfury or ateish.

[axeplay]

If Legendaries were able to be transmogrified, every single rogue would have Warglaives, every warrior/DK/paladin would have either Shadowmourne or Thunderfury, and every single hunter would have Thori'Dal. When everyone has a legendary, they're not legendary anymore.

Except that not everyone has them. Again, all the people claiming that everyone will have them to transmog is assuming anyone that can farm them has farmed them. Even though the old ones are easy to get, rng is rng, and it can take some people a very long time to finish them. Until someone shows me the numbers that say that the majority of players have legendary weapons, I'm going to continue to call bullshit on the argument that they will just completely saturate the transmog market.

Also, Sulfuras was reimplemented into the game, as a non legendary with a slightly larger model and cooler graphics. That right there is proof enough that Blizz doesn't think it is too special to be transmogged. And guess what? Not every person with a 2h mace is transmogged to that...

[Viradiance]

What other peoples toons look like does not effect you.

It does. Seeing glaives earned post-2.1 pisses me off.

[axeplay]

How about this, for all the people that care so much about keeping items legendary? Make it to where they are only moggable on non rp realms. There, problem solved. If lore is so important to you, you should already be on a role playing realm. As for all the people who couldn't care less about an items rarity, they can stay on the normal realms and mog whatever the hell they want.

---------- Post added 2012-07-09 at 01:10 PM ----------

It does. Seeing glaives earned post-2.1 pisses me off.

So you inspect every single person you see with glaives achieves, then get an emotional response out of it depending on if they got them based on your own personal parameters. Wonderful. I'm glad such a mature attitude was brought to this discussion.

[Deleted]

To all those "everyone would be strolling with legendaries". here are some pragmatically pragmatic statistics that prove you wrong:

http://wow-achievements.com/achievem...-the-guardian/
grand total of 25k players across all servers have them (0.2568% out of 10million) That's also taking into account the fact that all 25k of them are still playing since Vanilla (fat chance) There's total of 236 realms so that makes about 108 players per realm. Dividing that between two factions that's aprox 54 possible players in your visual vicinity that have that staff.

http://wow-achievements.com/achievem...d-of-ragnaros/
grand total of 264k players across all servers have them (2.64% out of 10 million) That's also taking into account the fact that all 264k of them are still playing to this day (fat chance) There's total of 236 realms so that makes about 1k players per realm. Dividing that between two factions that's aprox 500 possible players in your visual vicinity that have that hammer.

http://wow-achievements.com/achievem...he-windseeker/
grand total of 335k players across all servers have them (3.35% out of 10 million) That's also taking into account the fact that all 335k of them are still playing to this day (fat chance) There's total of 236 realms so that makes about 1,5k players per realm. Dividing that between two factions that's aprox 750 possible players in your visual vicinity that have that sword.

http://wow-achievements.com/achievem...ancient-kings/
grand total of 184k players across all servers have them (1.84% out of 10 million) That's also taking into account the fact that all 184k of them are still playing to this day (fat chance) There's total of 236 realms so that makes about 780 players per realm. Dividing that between two factions that's aprox 340possible players in your visual vicinity that have that healer hammer.

http://wow-achievements.com/achievem...s-of-azzinoth/
grand total of 97k players across all servers have them (0.97% out of 10 million) That's also taking into account the fact that all 97k of them are still playing to this day (fat chance) There's total of 236 realms so that makes about 411 players per realm. Dividing that between two factions that's aprox 205possible players in your visual vicinity that have those blades.

http://wow-achievements.com/achievem.../shadowmourne/
grand total of 175k players across all servers have them (1.75% out of 10 million) That's also taking into account the fact that all 175k of them are still playing to this day (fat chance) There's total of 236 realms so that makes about 741 players per realm. Dividing that between two factions that's aprox 370possible players in your visual vicinity that have that axe.

So how much does it all add up?
Atiesh - 54 people per server
Rag Hammer - 500 people per server
TF - 750 people per server
HoAK - 340 people per server
Glaives - 205 people per server
ICC Axe - 370 people per server

Grand total = 2219 characters on your side that might have legendaries. That would include if those characters were all owned by seperate 2219 people (fat chance). Are still playing the game (even more fat chance) and that all of those chars own only one legendary (ex warrior owns rag hammer and nothing else witch is even more fat chance)

Not to even mention that each realms has a populance of about 5k players. Which would mean that everyone has legendaries in their possesion IF the above impossible criteria were meet.

Conclusion?
No way in hell everyone would walk around with legendaries.

[axeplay]

Thank you very much Dzudzadzo.

[Verain]

I don't think we need to xmute legendaries.

And as to the "challenge to the art team"... it's clear that they spend EXTRA effort on oranges. I'm ok with that. I'd be ok with just more epics being worth using!

[Ciddy]

I don't really understand the whole "we don't want to see everyone running around with legendary weapons" argument. I always thought the fact that you have to obtain legendary items in the first place negates that. Transmoggable legendaries doesn't automatically mean everyone in the game is going to be running around with dual warglaives. I've been farming BT on and off for a couple of years, and I've seen the offhand warglaive drop one time. The only legendaries you can really aquire solo (to the best of my knowledge) are Thunderfury and Sulfuras, and even those require a shit ton of farming (both mats and RNG with drops in the lowbie raids).

Shadowmourne would fit in perfectly with my transmogged set on my warrior, but I can't use it due to the rule about transmogging legendaries, and I think that sucks. About the only thing I can really do with my old legendary weapons is strut around SW with them equipped.

[Matt0193]

So you inspect every single person you see with glaives achieves, then get an emotional response out of it depending on if they got them based on your own personal parameters. Wonderful. I'm glad such a mature attitude was brought to this discussion.

And the mentality of "I really earned this, I didn't farm it during current content and I just got lucky in a farm run at 80/5 and now I want the server to see how awesome I am for being lucky" is a truly magnificent one as well.

I get pissed when anyone links in a half of TF in /g, and say "It's my first run lol" when I've been running it for the better part of half a decade and only seen both halves split between a few of my characters. Never ever seen Sulf drop, was last on the list to get Shadowmourne out of our melee in ICC because I was asked to roll DW Frost for the Windfury buff (We only had 1 shaman, go figure) so anyone getting it post cata gets an immediate passing curse from me.

Solution:
The only fair measure I can think of is that you're only able to transmog gear if your character was created before the end of the relevant content. So if you have a vanilla character, you can transmog any legendaries that has from Vanilla/BC (Even if you didn't earn them, I appreciate that there's no ideal way to track them unless Blizzard do indeed have a log of all the quest completes for a character). A character created in Wrath can't (So no DK's with WF/Sulf/Glaives) transmog Vanilla/BC loot, and past 3.0.1 it can be done on a patch basis, perhaps two as I know RNG can be painful (It took us 11 weeks to get Val'anyr in a 25 man environment, others took a little over a month) to get in the time between one patch and another. And so on.

[Ciddy]

Solution:
The only fair measure I can think of is that you're only able to transmog gear if your character was created before the end of the relevant content. So if you have a vanilla character, you can transmog any legendaries that has from Vanilla/BC (Even if you didn't earn them, I appreciate that there's no ideal way to track them unless Blizzard do indeed have a log of all the quest completes for a character). A character created in Wrath can't (So no DK's with WF/Sulf/Glaives) transmog Vanilla/BC loot, and past 3.0.1 it can be done on a patch basis, perhaps two as I know RNG can be painful (It took us 11 weeks to get Val'anyr in a 25 man environment, others took a little over a month) to get in the time between one patch and another. And so on.

I kind of agree with this, though I'm not sure how it'd be implemented.

[JimPaladin]

Anyone care to mention that all those people who are still wielding Tarecgosa (every caster in a serious guild) would probably like to transmog into a new weapon at some point. If i was a caster forced to look at that shitty staff for 2 full tiers of raids i would be pissed.

Because everyone used Tarecgosa for the full Firelands raid tier.

[axeplay]

Right now very few people have legendaries, in absolute terms. If people could suddenly transmog items into the same model as legendaries then far more people would be running old content (Blizzard would generally, IMO, prefer you to be running current content instead of this, or at least current expansion content) which would lead to legendaries not being anywhere near as 'Legendary' as they currently are. Imagine the following, if you will:
* all single-handed fury warriors, prot warriors and prot paladins using a Thunderfury lookalike (or Warglaive lookalikes, if they have the urge)
* all Titan's grip warriors, retribution paladins and death knights using a Shadowmourne lookalike
* all Hunters using a Thori'dal lookalike
* all Assassination Rogues using Fangs of the Father lookalikes
* all caster dps, that are unlucky enough to have a staff, using Dragonwrath lookalike
* all healers using a Val'anyr lookalike
In short: an entire raid of legendary-using players.

It might look awesome for the first week but after that... is that 'Legendary'?

Look at the numbers dzudzadzo posted. Even if they did allow legendary transmogs, and a ton of people started farming for them who previously had not, they aren't all going to get them in a week. Yes some lucky asshole will get a binding the first week, and there is a minuscule chance that someone gets both in one run, the vast majority will be farming for weeks if not months if not years for all legendaries prior to Val'ynar. I'm quite certain all the people concerned that you will see them everywhere are just being obtuse.

And also, make a toon on Illidan, go to Org, walk between the bank and the Ah during peak hours. You will see quite a few people with glaives/shadowmourne/tfury/etc. If blizzard really wanted them to stay epic and super rare, they'd have taken them all out of the game after they became obsolete. There is no difference between people having them on just for show in Org as there is being able to transmog a current item to them. And if it is such a problem to you that you can't fathom the idea of more than one person with thunderfury etc, go play on a dead realm where you know you won't run into that.

[Anjerith]

You can't make a chart based on the drop rate of an item that few people have been motivated to get thus far, the numbers dont match up at all. I'm sorry they don't.

If 1,000 people have an item out of a million that have made a slight attempt at getting it, the numbers will not be the same is suddenly 8 million people are trying to get it. Nevermind the fact that EVER person could feasibly get it the first time they kill the boss.

[axeplay]

The only fair measure I can think of is that you're only able to transmog gear if your character was created before the end of the relevant content. So if you have a vanilla character, you can transmog any legendaries that has from Vanilla/BC (Even if you didn't earn them, I appreciate that there's no ideal way to track them unless Blizzard do indeed have a log of all the quest completes for a character). A character created in Wrath can't (So no DK's with WF/Sulf/Glaives) transmog Vanilla/BC loot, and past 3.0.1 it can be done on a patch basis, perhaps two as I know RNG can be painful (It took us 11 weeks to get Val'anyr in a 25 man environment, others took a little over a month) to get in the time between one patch and another. And so on.

So Dk's, who did not exist when glaives were current, yet blizzard later changed it so they could use them since they are a dedicated duel wield class have no chance to ever mog them under those terms? That is ridiculous, and again people seem to want to split hairs on this. It's either everyone can mog them whenever or no one can. I'm usually not so black and white on some subjects, but a bunch of draconian standards for this is just silly.