View Poll Results: Do you think it's a good idea?

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  • Yes it is!

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  1. #1

    Solution to raid nerfs

    Hey guys,

    I was just reading some posts about how raid nerfs suck bc people who down the boss after the nerf is implemented are not fully "recognised" bc the debuff was there already, even if they deactivated it.

    My thought is Blizz should enable some kind of achievement for ppl who killed the boss without nerf, that way even if the week you actually killed the boss the debuff was already there, you can show other people you killed the boss without it. Because right now turning the debuff off doesn't make sense, bc what other people look at is the date you got the achievement

    So yeah, blizz should just implement a way to show people you didn't need the debuff to kill the boss, maybe by getting an achivement aside that specifys no debuff can be active to be able to get it or maybe by showing the % of debuff that was enabled when the kill happened.

    What do you think


    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post
    Giving the people that kill Madness now with (almost) full BiS after turning off debuff the same achievement as the ones that did it prenerfs with a ton less gear makes no sense.
    Maybe the achievement should only display the % of debuff that was active during Your first kill of the boss or something, but i see it like something ppl would like


    Quote Originally Posted by deathguyz View Post
    Cant just people check the date you got your kill?Personally to me it doesnt make sense...dont like the debuff turn it off or kill the boss with it!Does it really matter how the others killed the boss or how you did it?Also blizzard is trying to reduce the achievments in raiding environment since ulduar era(woohoo achivs everywhere) and just keep 1 for each hc boss kill and one for each boss achievment.Just my opinion though

    Also, for ppl who say u can just check the date of the achievement, this would be directed by those guild who are a little behind in the progression but still want to be able to say "We downed them all without debuff, here's proof" even if they did it after the debuff was implemented
    Last edited by Slath; 2012-07-06 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Aswering some questions that came up

  2. #2
    Giving the people that kill Madness now with (almost) full BiS after turning off debuff the same achievement as the ones that did it prenerfs with a ton less gear makes no sense.

    Awesome signature/avatar by Visenna!

  3. #3
    the debuff is just 1 aspect. there are many changes they make that make the encounters much easier like nerfing certain spells/dmg, fixing more convenient timing, etc.

  4. #4
    The achievement has a time stamp so if someone questions your skill, you can tell him to look it up on the armory. I think the current system works quite well. At least it doesn't work so poorly to warrant re-engineering.

  5. #5
    I really do think people are making to big a deal out of this. Its only normal that content gets nerfed over time.

  6. #6
    Cant just people check the date you got your kill?Personally to me it doesnt make sense...dont like the debuff turn it off or kill the boss with it!Does it really matter how the others killed the boss or how you did it?Also blizzard is trying to reduce the achievments in raiding environment since ulduar era(woohoo achivs everywhere) and just keep 1 for each hc boss kill and one for each boss achievment.Just my opinion though

  7. #7
    Maybe the achievement should only display the % of debuff that was active during Your first kill of the boss or something, but i see it like something ppl would like

  8. #8
    Mechagnome PhilCosby's Avatar
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    I miss the old method of nerfing content of letting inferior guilds farm for better gear before progressing.
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  9. #9
    Also, for ppl who say u can just check the date of the achievement, this would be directed by those guild who are a little behind in the progression but still want to be able to say "We downed them all without debuff, here's proof" even if they did it after the debuff was implemented

  10. #10
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    As the blue said "How exactly does what others do in this game impact you?"

    And if you wann compete with the big guys and want to show off your skillZ, I am sure you are sporting lots of "Real First"? What more of a time stamp you want? The next guy will come and say "Oh, but I killed it when the 25% buff was active BUT WE SWITCHED IT OFF. Now what is your solution to this?

    See..one of the problems with you guys complaining and offering solutions is: You never think them through entirely.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    As the blue said "How exactly does what others do in this game impact you?"

    And if you wann compete with the big guys and want to show off your skillZ, I am sure you are sporting lots of "Real First"? What more of a time stamp you want? The next guy will come and say "Oh, but I killed it when the 25% buff was active BUT WE SWITCHED IT OFF. Now what is your solution to this?

    See..one of the problems with you guys complaining and offering solutions is: You never think them through entirely.
    This is just what i'm saying, you'll be able to see if they switched it off or not!!

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    As the blue said "How exactly does what others do in this game impact you?"

    And if you wann compete with the big guys and want to show off your skillZ, I am sure you are sporting lots of "Real First"? What more of a time stamp you want? The next guy will come and say "Oh, but I killed it when the 25% buff was active BUT WE SWITCHED IT OFF. Now what is your solution to this?

    See..one of the problems with you guys complaining and offering solutions is: You never think them through entirely.
    The problems with guys trying to act smart and offer negative feedback is: They never thnik them trough entirely...

    If buff is active when entering combat, it fails the check = no achivement.
    So extremely simple to solve lol...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    The problems with guys trying to act smart and offer negative feedback is: They never thnik them trough entirely...

    If buff is active when entering combat, it fails the check = no achivement.
    So extremely simple to solve lol...
    You can only "solve" something if its considered a problem.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Slath View Post
    Also, for ppl who say u can just check the date of the achievement, this would be directed by those guild who are a little behind in the progression but still want to be able to say "We downed them all without debuff, here's proof" even if they did it after the debuff was implemented
    .. once they add that, people will demand an achievement for people who downed a boss without debuff and in the "correct" item level gear. What we have now is good enough.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by andreas1999 View Post
    .. once they add that, people will demand an achievement for people who downed a boss without debuff and in the "correct" item level gear. What we have now is good enough.
    In the correct item level? If it's the first time you kill the boss you can't be a lot higher than other people

  16. #16
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    I agree with the people who say its unnecessary. There really wouldn't be much of a point to something like that - my raid is about to take on DS without the nerf (we were 6/8 pre-nerf) just for the challenge of it. Faster and faster clears are nice, but it will be a lot of fun to have to actually think and react to things like during progression. And if/when we down it, I'm sure we'll make a note of it in recruitment threads or whatever, but there doesn't need to be an in-game recognition of the fact that we turned off the nerf.
    Raids & Dungeons Mod | <Despotism> 14/14H (10-man); 14/14H (25-man); 2 Days/Week US-Greymane <> Recruiting for Mythic

  17. #17
    Nobody will ever turn the debuff off, until they're at the point where they completely overgear the content. It really does not matter if you did it with the debuff off after farming the instance for three months and being in near BiS gear because the numbers will be already at 10% level and nowhere even nearly comparable to the difficulty that people had in the first weeks pushing for world firsts.

    It would be completely hypocritical, therefore useless change you're suggesting.
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  18. #18
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slath View Post
    In the correct item level? If it's the first time you kill the boss you can't be a lot higher than other people
    Of course you can. The people who are getting their first H Madness kill now have most likely much higher gear than the people who got world first kills because they have had many more weeks of farming normal and heroic bosses. People who cleared H DS in the beginning were still in a lot of H FL and LFR gear.
    Raids & Dungeons Mod | <Despotism> 14/14H (10-man); 14/14H (25-man); 2 Days/Week US-Greymane <> Recruiting for Mythic

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post
    Giving the people that kill Madness now with (almost) full BiS after turning off debuff the same achievement as the ones that did it prenerfs with a ton less gear makes no sense.
    Yea people who are still raiding DS should obviously get no reward or recognition for their efforts that makes sense. Who the fuck cares if you did it with less gear. You are one of those little kids that wants Blizz to cater to the 1% and ignore the 99%. Some people have the skill to do the fight without the nerfs but dont have the time to sit in front of a computer 6 hours a day 5-7 days a week like you so being able to show that people with less time still have the same sklll to be able to defeat the boss as it was intended should be rewarded.

    OT I think its a good idea would actually give people a reason to keep raiding after defeating HC Madness since they can go back and do it without the nerfs and actually be rewarded.

  20. #20
    There already is a date note in the achievement. There are tons of websites to wank of at your progress, recorded by the minute. Do you really need an achievement that says "I am so much better then all of you", I really wonder what someone gets out of that.

    Why act elitist? Congrats that you killed it within 8 weeks. Also congrats to the 1-2 time per week social raiding guild that kept the group together for 6 months, and finally killed DW hc. Its both worth the achievement. A hardcore guild removes the mediocre healer from his raidspot, the social raiding guild takes the mediocre healer for granted, cause he is good fun the bring along.

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