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  1. #1

    The Future of Warrior PVP

    Hello everybody,

    After spending many hours crossing from the US & EU forms looking at the beta feedback posts, players posts and blue posts as well as playing in the MOP Beta I have a lot of praise and concerns about the future of Warrior PVP.



    The Pros:

    Abilities like "Mortal Strike" and "Collosus Smash" have had major rehaul changes in which they no longer cost rage, but generate it and also apply an auto bleed, these are great quality of life changes and with Collosus Smash being free we have a better window of opportunity to maximize damage output instead of waiting for rage.

    "Sweeping Strikes" rage cost is great and the CD is even better this is going to allow us to cleave a lot better in arena and help us output more pressure which is never a bad thing, also the way "Enraged Regen" works now with a 1 minute CD is great. "Die by the Sword" is giving us more survivability which is something we have needed for a while.

    "Safeguard" is an amazing change which will allow for more opportunity as well as giving our healer / friendly target 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds this is going to help counter hard switches and pressure from opposing teams.



    The Cons:

    • Mobility
    - I really thought "Double Time" was going to be the saving grace for Warriors but found out just today that it is going to work like this (you have 2 charges which you can use simultaneously however they have a 20 second CD each meaning that Charge B is ready in 40 seconds time)

    This is not good for warriors at all. Warriors need 100% uptime in arena on a target, the reason for this is because if we are being kited or nova'd in place we are doing nothing in that game and it may as well be 2 vs 3. Every other class brings something to the table even if they are kited / nova'd or snared, many classes have decent or beneficial ranged abilities.

    Casters have 100% uptime in terms of being able to damage for 100% of the game, melee classes like Death Knights if being kited can grip, snare, nova or even use ranged spells against opponents so they are not useless when being out ranged. We need more gap closures or self sufficient mobility in order to be able to do anything in arena.


    • Defensive
    - Warriors going defensive lose all damage output and it is hard to re-gain momentum and pressure, other classes do not suffer the penalty or long CD of going defensive like a warrior does, Paladins - Sacred Sheild & Divine Protection for example can have these 2 up and not lose damage or downtime due to it. I feel this has been mentioned before many times but for good reason.


    • Self Sufficiency
    - Warrior have no self sufficiency, again most classes have passive self heals that even reduce damage as well as being able to keep them selves mobile or get out of snares and other various CC's, this is an area of the game that Warrior lacks the most, if we get snared in place, we cannot get out (unless Bladestorm) we lose damage, we cannot do anything to the opponent, we cannot stop or at least attempt to prevent the onslaught of damage that is inbound.

    Warrior need to be babysat with constant dispels / buffs to keep us going, was playing 2's the other night for lols with my friend (Resto Druid) it wasn't anything amazing just for cap, but he was moaning because he was losing more mana dispelling me than actually healing me (we was vs Mage, Priest team).

    I also believe that the Banners introduced to us in MOP although nice additions they do not have the same shiny feeling other classes are getting nor do they help with any of our disadvantages.



    Final words
    I am not QQ'ing or asking for buffs, I do not wish Warriors to operate the same way other classes do nor do I ask to have the exact same feel / abilities that they have, but this post is pointing out the disadvantages Warrior face while in Arena and these disadvantages not only cost games, they also make the class completely undesirable.

    Nova a, Dk (AMS), Ret (Freedom), Rogue (Cloak), Enh Shammy (Wolves), Warrior (.....) ect ect We are the only Melee that suffer the worst from every angle in the game, and the changes for MOP do not seem to be addressing the disadvantages Warriors have.

    I hope you took your time to read this and some what enjoyed the read, give feedback and criticism, but my main concern is the future of Warrior PVP is not looking good. (sorry for the wall of text feel)

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral dacoolist's Avatar
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    They can still change a lot of features for us before MOP release. I don't think the final will be that bad with mobility. At least - I don't think hahahah

  3. #3
    Warriors is a joke in PVP atm, whenever you are out of rage you just stand there waiting for the next auto-attack, same for PVE.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral dacoolist's Avatar
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    I know battlegrounds don't matter much to people (besides me) - but in battlegrounds I typically top damage I would say 50% of the time. The only reason I don't get top much more often is because the other two people I typically go in with - are both warriors. One of them, for the most part is better than myself in pvp situations.

    Not stating we don't need work, but current live is much different than Beta

  5. #5
    At - Dacoolist

    Same I rape normal battlegrounds to a point where I am nearly 10+ million damage done, but it is Arena where we are lacking so hard right now that it is not even funny : /

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    lol no kidding

    i was actually amazed that, at first, between all the charges, it was a difficult decision. now they just all suck.

    But to be honest, I really don't like how weak Enraged Regeneration is, I'd rather it be a 2-3 minute cooldown and actually heal for something. I like that you can use it while stunned, but 20% is just lackluster

    my favorite part though, is that we are being forced to keep sword and board macros because developers "like it". Unless we're actually going to be able to do damage with a sword and board (spammable revenge plz), I really wish that they would get over themselves.
    http://www.heroicstrike.org/ - Goodnight, sweet prince

    Melee isn't awful for Challenge Modes; you are. Melee players are a liability for the windows of time in which a tank keeps an enemy mob faced towards them, resulting in an exorbitant loss of damage or death. Melee players are a liability for people who keep rooting mobs next to them. Melee are a liability to a healer that cannot heal.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    "Safeguard" is an amazing change which will allow for more opportunity as well as giving our healer / friendly target 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds this is going to help counter hard switches and pressure from opposing teams.
    A good change

    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    - I really thought "Double Time" was going to be the saving grace for Warriors but found out just today that it is going to work like this (you have 2 charges which you can use simultaneously however they have a 20 second CD each meaning that Charge B is ready in 40 seconds time)
    Warrior mobility atm is great, you are aware warriors are the most mobile mele right?

    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    This is not good for warriors at all. Warriors need 100% uptime in arena on a target, the reason for this is because if we are being kited or nova'd in place we are doing nothing in that game and it may as well be 2 vs 3. Every other class brings something to the table even if they are kited / nova'd or snared, many classes have decent or beneficial ranged abilities.
    Ehh what? 100% uptime so you can just smash anything into the ground with little/no thought? Granted warriors have the least options when rooted, I feel most of this is aimed at frost mages, and in that regard the problem should be addressed at mages and not warriors, imo if the time spent in mages roots were reduced most of this problem wouldnt occur, other classes however needs roots to stay at the 8 seconds mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    Casters have 100% uptime in terms of being able to damage for 100% of the game, melee classes like Death Knights if being kited can grip, snare, nova or even use ranged spells against opponents so they are not useless when being out ranged. We need more gap closures or self sufficient mobility in order to be able to do anything in arena.
    Well thats just completely bias nonsense can a caster freecast with a mele on them? No...its hard enough to get a cast of with interupts+stuns+silences+cast knockback, that almost every mele brings to the table thesedays.

    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    Warriors going defensive lose all damage output and it is hard to re-gain momentum and pressure, other classes do not suffer the penalty or long CD of going defensive like a warrior does, Paladins - Sacred Sheild & Divine Protection for example can have these 2 up and not lose damage or downtime due to it. I feel this has been mentioned before many times but for good reason.
    Agree completely I would have argued that DEFENSIVE cds should of made the person go DEFENSIVE but blizzard have applied their logic to that (sigh) and given most meles defensive cds that allow them to be used offensively, so wars need the same in order to remain competitive on this I can agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    Warrior have no self sufficiency, again most classes have passive self heals that even reduce damage as well as being able to keep them selves mobile or get out of snares and other various CC's, this is an area of the game that Warrior lacks the most, if we get snared in place, we cannot get out (unless Bladestorm) we lose damage, we cannot do anything to the opponent, we cannot stop or at least attempt to prevent the onslaught of damage that is inbound.
    Yeah but thats because the second you do get out of the root the tables turn around completely and the warrior becomes a wrecking ball.

    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    Warrior need to be babysat with constant dispels / buffs to keep us going, was playing 2's the other night for lols with my friend (Resto Druid) it wasn't anything amazing just for cap, but he was moaning because he was losing more mana dispelling me than actually healing me (we was vs Mage, Priest team).
    Every mele says this, bar rets I guess but anyway mage/priest is a free win against mele/healer, its the absolute worse scenario for mele/healer saying that as a reason for wars to get a buff is kinda pushing it.....

    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    I also believe that the Banners introduced to us in MOP although nice additions they do not have the same shiny feeling other classes are getting nor do they help with any of our disadvantages.
    Avatar, nuff said.



    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    I am not QQ'ing or asking for buffs, I do not wish Warriors to operate the same way other classes do nor do I ask to have the exact same feel / abilities that they have, but this post is pointing out the disadvantages Warrior face while in Arena and these disadvantages not only cost games, they also make the class completely undesirable.
    Yeah you are qqing but some of it is justified wars do not bring as much to the table as other classes + in some areas they need buffed, but some people make it out that wars are a terrible class that are junk....which is far from the case. [/QUOTE]


    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    Nova a, Dk (AMS), Ret (Freedom), Rogue (Cloak), Enh Shammy (Wolves), Warrior (.....) ect ect We are the only Melee that suffer the worst from every angle in the game, and the changes for MOP do not seem to be addressing the disadvantages Warriors have.
    Now THAT is qq, warriors are far from the worst in every single angle...just saying that shit makes you lose any/all credibility. The difference between good and bad wars is when they blow their cds to stay offensive, good ones use it when the opponent is low, bad ones blow it when the person is at 80%+ and then wonder why they have nothing left to finish a target when the target drops low, then they get angry and say the class is bad....which its not, its just lacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by PureBallin View Post
    I hope you took your time to read this and some what enjoyed the read, give feedback and criticism, but my main concern is the future of Warrior PVP is not looking good. (sorry for the wall of text feel)
    In what way is it looking bad, you are getting more damage, more mobility and more immunity rolled into some of your biggest damage abilities. The only thing stopping wars from doing well right now is the fact that a) mages are incredibly strong and b) rogues are ludicrously strong. Was watching tosan the other day think he was with merkx (could be wrong) but anyway they were against that rogue called samx and as metaphors said as soon as merk uses his trinket its game over because they just swap to him in a smokebomb+ kidney and they lost 2-3 games I saw in a row due to this. That has nothing to do with wars being underpowered but everything to do with a few classes just completely breaking the game.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox7 View Post
    Warrior mobility atm is great, you are aware warriors are the most mobile mele right?
    just because a warrior can fly across the fray every 40 seconds doesn't mean that your mobility is consistent

    Blizzard went overboard with giving casters CC so that they could hardcast. Being forced to sit in an 8 second nova that was not even directed at me doesn't really fit the definition of "mobile".

    I'm not even going to start on how stupid lambs to the slaughter is

    Well thats just completely bias nonsense can a caster freecast with a mele on them? No...its hard enough to get a cast of with interupts+stuns+silences+cast knockback, that almost every mele brings to the table thesedays.
    are you sure you've played a warrior lately or even know how to fakecast?

    Yeah you are qqing but some of it is justified wars do not bring as much to the table as other classes + in some areas they need buffed, but some people make it out that wars are a terrible class that are junk....which is far from the case.
    Now THAT is qq, warriors are far from the worst in every single angle...just saying that shit makes you lose any/all credibility.
    Ahahaha

    okay, tell me ONE thing. ONE THING that a Warrior does better than ANY other class in the game, ONE reason why ANYONE should run an Arms Warrior right now. Of course people are bitching, you can't even play this class at a competitive level unless you want to be a flag carrier.
    http://www.heroicstrike.org/ - Goodnight, sweet prince

    Melee isn't awful for Challenge Modes; you are. Melee players are a liability for the windows of time in which a tank keeps an enemy mob faced towards them, resulting in an exorbitant loss of damage or death. Melee players are a liability for people who keep rooting mobs next to them. Melee are a liability to a healer that cannot heal.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    just because a warrior can fly across the fray every 40 seconds doesn't mean that your mobility is consistent

    Blizzard went overboard with giving casters CC so that they could hardcast. Being forced to sit in an 8 second nova that was not even directed at me doesn't really fit the definition of "mobile".

    I'm not even going to start on how stupid lambs to the slaughter is



    are you sure you've played a warrior lately or even know how to fakecast?




    Ahahaha

    okay, tell me ONE thing. ONE THING that a Warrior does better than ANY other class in the game, ONE reason why ANYONE should run an Arms Warrior right now. Of course people are bitching, you can't even play this class at a competitive level unless you want to be a flag carrier.
    Indeed mate.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    just because a warrior can fly across the fray every 40 seconds doesn't mean that your mobility is consistent
    Yes 13-14 sec charge cd isnt more mobile than any other mele and a heroic leap every minute on top of that is still less mobility than any other mele

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Blizzard went overboard with giving casters CC so that they could hardcast. Being forced to sit in an 8 second nova that was not even directed at me doesn't really fit the definition of "mobile".
    No they went overboard with giving mages too many roots, then gave them too much damage from instants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I'm not even going to start on how stupid lambs to the slaughter is
    Meh its fine, theres far worse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    are you sure you've played a warrior lately or even know how to fakecast?
    In bgs and arenas I would honestly say I get interupted 2/10 actual interupts, even so you dont see meles have to do anything like cast a spell then stop incase they MIGHT be interupted or not, either way its damage/healing stopped for a while.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Ahahaha

    okay, tell me ONE thing. ONE THING that a Warrior does better than ANY other class in the game, ONE reason why ANYONE should run an Arms Warrior right now. Of course people are bitching, you can't even play this class at a competitive level unless you want to be a flag carrier.
    I will give several actually, warriors are pretty boss at being unpeelable bastards when they use intervene/charge/leap correctly, they do great sustained single target damage with large amount of burst, are they in an OP state no, are they underpowered nobody takes them? HELL NO. All the people crying their eyes out atm are the barely 1500 try hards who rolled war during their OP state and expected them to stay that way. There are a few wars still in the top teams and being used in the arena tournies.

    Ps mobility is not the same as root escapes, and once again wars are only doing terrible due to rogues and mages being in almost every top teams.

  11. #11
    Don't worry guys. Blizzard's got this. Their solution is to make it so that a warrior can stack all cooldowns and force all CC on himself from opponents for the next 20 seconds and then be useless the following 3-5 minutes.

    Fuck cooldown stacking.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox7 View Post
    Yes 13-14 sec charge cd isnt more mobile than any other mele and a heroic leap every minute on top of that is still less mobility than any other mele


    No they went overboard with giving mages too many roots, then gave them too much damage from instants.

    Meh its fine, theres far worse.



    In bgs and arenas I would honestly say I get interupted 2/10 actual interupts, even so you dont see meles have to do anything like cast a spell then stop incase they MIGHT be interupted or not, either way its damage/healing stopped for a while.




    I will give several actually, warriors are pretty boss at being unpeelable bastards when they use intervene/charge/leap correctly, they do great sustained single target damage with large amount of burst, are they in an OP state no, are they underpowered nobody takes them? HELL NO. All the people crying their eyes out atm are the barely 1500 try hards who rolled war during their OP state and expected them to stay that way. There are a few wars still in the top teams and being used in the arena tournies.

    Ps mobility is not the same as root escapes, and once again wars are only doing terrible due to rogues and mages being in almost every top teams.
    Warriors are the EASIEST class to peel. Wtf are you smoking.

    We have a shitting 50% slow. Take a global. Does no damage.
    No movement enhancements.
    If you lose melee range on something, all you can do is stop and wait for change CD.

    Meanwhile, every class has 70% slows and multiple roots, meaning that even if you could keep hamstring up 100%, the fact that many classes are naturally faster than us, and the fact that they likely have a 70% slow on you, means you can stay in melee range for 2-3 seconds on average. We do BAD single target damage, because LttS falls off constantly, because we cannot stay in range to keep it stacked. So a class that is balanced around the damage it's capable of with 3 stack slaughter, rarely ever gets those stacks because of appalling 'grip' (not going to use the word 'mobility', because retards just see charge and ohmahgawd charge!).
    Last edited by asharia; 2012-07-07 at 05:30 AM.

  13. #13
    40 sec charge CDs with double time,yeah warriors look so so good,lmfao!

  14. #14
    The Patient
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    Warriors will be fine, just go with the flow.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Don't worry guys. Blizzard's got this. Their solution is to make it so that a warrior can stack all cooldowns and force all CC on himself from opponents for the next 20 seconds and then be useless the following 3-5 minutes.

    Fuck cooldown stacking.
    Welcome to the life of demo locks since....... forever. Anyway, I think warriors are a small tweak away from being perfectly fine in their current state. As said before, the real problem is with other classes that are unbalanced. If rogues didnt scale so well and have prep, frost/fire mages didnt have so much control, bear form for ferals wasn't so good, and ret wasnt able to burst and heal like a boss, youd see alot more warriors imo.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox7 View Post
    A good change


    Warrior mobility atm is great, you are aware warriors are the most mobile mele right?


    Ehh what? 100% uptime so you can just smash anything into the ground with little/no thought? Granted warriors have the least options when rooted, I feel most of this is aimed at frost mages, and in that regard the problem should be addressed at mages and not warriors, imo if the time spent in mages roots were reduced most of this problem wouldnt occur, other classes however needs roots to stay at the 8 seconds mark.


    Well thats just completely bias nonsense can a caster freecast with a mele on them? No...its hard enough to get a cast of with interupts+stuns+silences+cast knockback, that almost every mele brings to the table thesedays.


    Agree completely I would have argued that DEFENSIVE cds should of made the person go DEFENSIVE but blizzard have applied their logic to that (sigh) and given most meles defensive cds that allow them to be used offensively, so wars need the same in order to remain competitive on this I can agree.


    Yeah but thats because the second you do get out of the root the tables turn around completely and the warrior becomes a wrecking ball.


    Every mele says this, bar rets I guess but anyway mage/priest is a free win against mele/healer, its the absolute worse scenario for mele/healer saying that as a reason for wars to get a buff is kinda pushing it.....


    Avatar, nuff said.




    Yeah you are qqing but some of it is justified wars do not bring as much to the table as other classes + in some areas they need buffed, but some people make it out that wars are a terrible class that are junk....which is far from the case.


    Now THAT is qq, warriors are far from the worst in every single angle...just saying that shit makes you lose any/all credibility. The difference between good and bad wars is when they blow their cds to stay offensive, good ones use it when the opponent is low, bad ones blow it when the person is at 80%+ and then wonder why they have nothing left to finish a target when the target drops low, then they get angry and say the class is bad....which its not, its just lacking.



    In what way is it looking bad, you are getting more damage, more mobility and more immunity rolled into some of your biggest damage abilities. The only thing stopping wars from doing well right now is the fact that a) mages are incredibly strong and b) rogues are ludicrously strong. Was watching tosan the other day think he was with merkx (could be wrong) but anyway they were against that rogue called samx and as metaphors said as soon as merk uses his trinket its game over because they just swap to him in a smokebomb+ kidney and they lost 2-3 games I saw in a row due to this. That has nothing to do with wars being underpowered but everything to do with a few classes just completely breaking the game.[/QUOTE]

    agreed

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Leonidas's Avatar
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    How is "other classes (mage and rogue for example, as well as others) are overpowered now" an excuse for "being fine."

    Stating that some classes are just overpowered - stop QQing, makes absolutely no sense.
    I mean admitting something is overpowered and cannot be beaten because they are in fact overpowered is a pathetic mask for calling QQ. That's essentially saying, I know your class is weak, you know your class is weak - deal with it.

    Seriously... lulz.

  18. #18
    What's your definition of being in a bad position? How can someone say that warriors are fine, it's just that mages and rogues are specially OP, and every other melee is a better DD than warriors (but warriors are fine) with a straight face?
    Last edited by Espada; 2012-07-07 at 08:53 PM.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    This is somewhat long but I'm really tired of all the Warrior QQ that's been going on. I feel like these warrior threads aren't really much about discussing ideas, but more of crying and making others who play different classes feel like shit for playing their "OP class" considered by many warriors on this thread. Well anyway here goes...

    All blizzard needs to do with warriors is buff their damage to ridiculous levels. Then all of the crying about mobility, defense and self sufficiency will go completely out the window because healers will do all of that for the warrior alone. Personally, I think warriors suck in mop because the class is so god damm boring. Its like playing a dk without runes now. You use attacks to generate rage and then spam slam (death coil) to use it. Absolutely upsetting. After about an hour of playing my warrior on the beta, I just quit and logged on my unholy dk. Must more fun and rewarding. It sucks too because I've been playing a warrior since wotlk.

    Anyway, I don't understand why the OP doesn't understand strengths and weaknesses of a class. Warriors cannot have it all and that's what he seems to want. Blizzard is obviously trying to make warriors more of a tunnel class by removing the defensive capabilities and crippling the self healing. On the flipside, gag order is glyphed, shockwave is stupidly overpowered and Avatar is a nice for burst.

    Oh yeah and lets not forget about execute. Those 200k executes are balanced. Yet all warriors bring up is how mages shatter them for 300k or rogues are overpowered because they can kidney shot every 20 secs, yet shockwave is okay... but oh no, poor warriors, can't 1v1 everything because ghostcrawler "likes" mages even though that stupid argument has been around since wrath. Let me guess.... does GC like rogues now? Wait I thought he liked DK's, no wait that was ret paladins. Whatever.

    I don't get it. Then I've been seeing warriors on these forums want blizzard to remove colossus smash and heroic strike. What the hell? Do you want to just have everything baked into 3 abilities so you can constantly mash them. Warriors love to make fun of frost dks and how stupid that rotation is but warriors are getting real close the way they want it. Oh yeah let's not forget about those dumb warriors who want hamstring to have a ten yard range because its not fair that monks have a better hamstring. Yet warriors still have a 15 yard piercing howl that's spammable. God forbid you might have to do something other than damage.

    Better yet, lets bake hamstring into mortal strike so you don't have to hit the extra button and can still mindlessly do damage. Don't forget to make heroic leap break movement imparing effects BLIZZZARD!!! For some reason warriors think that a 30 second leap with a 12 second cd on charge is bad mobility and at the same time want a trinket on heroic leap. Pathetic. Don't even compare your class to priests or DK's or rogues who have talents that act as a trinket and need it if they want to survive the stupid control with shockwave and gag order warriors put out.

    Oh yeah to the people saying warrior mobility sucks are dumb. Warriors have the best mobility in the game, the problem warriors have is staying on their target. That's not a mobility issue but a self sufficiency issue... which is balanced. That's why you have something called "teammates" which help you on your quest to blow the shit out of anything that moves.

    I don't understand why some of you still play a warrior when you want everything from blizzard that doesn't make it feel like playing a warrior anymore. It seems to me that some of you here just like playing the bad hipster class so you can complain and have "poor me" excuses when you lose. I'm not saying all of the people here are like that, some complaints are actually legitimate. But dammit, some of you just won't rest until Blizzard "fixes" warriors.

  20. #20
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Anyway, I don't understand why the OP doesn't understand strengths and weaknesses of a class. Warriors cannot have it all and that's what he seems to want. Blizzard is obviously trying to make warriors more of a tunnel class by removing the defensive capabilities and crippling the self healing. On the flipside, gag order is glyphed, shockwave is stupidly overpowered and Avatar is a nice for burst.
    Glyph is a glyph. We only get two glyph slots since Long Charge is required. If you want Gag Order to be required, you only get 1 glyph slot.

    Shockwave means you give up Bladestorm (vulnerable to CC) or Dragon Roar (burst damage+peel+guaranteed enrage.)

    Avatar means you're giving up Storm Bolt, and anyone with a brain will just sheep you during Avatar.

    I don't get it. Then I've been seeing warriors on these forums want blizzard to remove colossus smash and heroic strike. What the hell? Do you want to just have everything baked into 3 abilities so you can constantly mash them. Warriors love to make fun of frost dks and how stupid that rotation is but warriors are getting real close the way they want it. Oh yeah let's not forget about those dumb warriors who want hamstring to have a ten yard range because its not fair that monks have a better hamstring. Yet warriors still have a 15 yard piercing howl that's spammable. God forbid you might have to do something other than damage.
    People are asking for Heroic Strike to be removed because right now it's basically identical to Slam - you basically get two abilities that do the exact same thing. It's needless actionbar bloat. Colossus Smash needs to go because balancing classes around 6 second windows of burst is retarded.

    Piercing Howl is a talent. Taking it means no Staggering Shout, no Disrupting Shout.

    Better yet, lets bake hamstring into mortal strike so you don't have to hit the extra button and can still mindlessly do damage. Don't forget to make heroic leap break movement imparing effects BLIZZZARD!!! For some reason warriors think that a 30 second leap with a 12 second cd on charge is bad mobility and at the same time want a trinket on heroic leap. Pathetic. Don't even compare your class to priests or DK's or rogues who have talents that act as a trinket and need it if they want to survive the stupid control with shockwave and gag order warriors put out.
    Every single other class gets a snare that's either applied automatically via their autoswings, or as part of a normal attack button. Monks may be an exception here, but that's why Disable's like Hamstring without the suck - they only have to spend a single GCD on it for the entire fight unless they get peeled and it falls off.

    Rogues - Crippling Poison (can Shiv for 70%)
    Paladins - Seal of Justice (or Burden of Guilt talent)
    Ferals - Infected Wounds (also applies to Guardian?)
    Shamans - Frostbrand Weapon
    Death Knights - Chains of Ice (can be glyphed to cause damage), or can take Chilblains talent
    Warriors - ???

    I'm not sure where you're going with the last bit other than you're trying to portray things like Cloak, IBF, and AMS as being weak. Which is silly.

    Oh yeah to the people saying warrior mobility sucks are dumb. Warriors have the best mobility in the game, the problem warriors have is staying on their target. That's not a mobility issue but a self sufficiency issue... which is balanced. That's why you have something called "teammates" which help you on your quest to blow the shit out of anything that moves.
    Actually, DKs have the best mobility in the game now. Have you even looked at Death's Advance? DKs are effectively immune to snares now and also get a 40% sprint (equal to Travel Form!) on a 30 sec cooldown, and it costs nothing.
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