The Future of Warrior PVP

[Flaks]

I just don't want warriors to be turned into 3.0 rets to where we can pop all our cds and shit on everything. I like being balanced, not brokenly overpowered. In fact, I'm seriously considering going bloodbath just to avoid that unbalancable pos avatar.

[jeremynative]

warriors are bad in Cata and MOP the end

[TJ]

Warriors are looking decent so far I think, OP burst but decent tools like Heroic Throw silence and Heroic Leap reduced cd etc etc.

[Paradox7]

Warriors are the EASIEST class to peel. Wtf are you smoking.

In terms of separating them from their target for a few seconds, yes BUT charge is on such a short cd gg your back on your target in no time. Easiest to peel hardest to lock down DUE TO THEIR MOBILITY. Try watching some of the arena tournaments of wars playing, they don't waddle after their target all game getting shit on by the other team in the open, which I suspect most of the complainers do.

We have a shitting 50% slow. Take a global. Does no damage.
No movement enhancements.
If you lose melee range on something, all you can do is stop and wait for change CD.

Yes hamstring feels old and outdated they are finally changing it in MoP less whinging about it its still a slow. You don't get "movement enhancements" because that's what charge is for it is your mobility....

Meanwhile, every class has 70% slows and multiple roots

No they don't....mages do, others don't.

, meaning that even if you could keep hamstring up 100%

You arent supposed to keep it up 100% of the time, its no fun playing a caster with a mele on you 100% of the time you have to deal with the fact ranged will get away from you at some point THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO, and eventually you will get back onto him, that's how mele vs range works in wow its a swing where 1 side gets momentum and the other loses it.

, the fact that many classes are naturally faster than us, and the fact that they likely have a 70% slow on you,

Thats not "fact" that is just something you have made up, I don't really know any classes with improved movement speed outside of ferals [inb4 rets but they don't count because they don't have any slows].

means you can stay in melee range for 2-3 seconds on average.

Either you have a very poor sense of time, or I'm afraid to say this is a l2p issue, I RARELY get kited on my war and I only play him as a fun alt.

We do BAD single target damage, because LttS falls off constantly, because we cannot stay in range to keep it stacked.

Im sorry but WHAT?!?!?!?! Wars are one of the hardest classes for healers to heal themselves or teamates against, their damage can be ludicrous, go watch kitty cleave at the arena tournies even the commentators were quite surprised at the damage the warriors did in a few setups SHOWING there is an element of skill involved.

So a class that is balanced around the damage it's capable of with 3 stack slaughter, rarely ever gets those stacks because of appalling 'grip' (not going to use the word 'mobility', because retards just see charge and ohmahgawd charge!).

The irony of that statement, I wont comment on if GOOD warriors do let ltts drop or not I suspect it does happen but VERY rarely, and in those occasions I would place a bet on it being due to cc not "appalling grip" like you say, good warriors don't struggle to have good uptime, bad ones do.

Sorry if you cant handle that but its pretty damn true, wars have NO TROUBLE against every class appart from mage and rogue. At no stage in any bgs or arenas have I felt OP or UP on my warrior when I came up against teams without mage/rogue. Even against bad mage/rogue teams I feel like I still stand a chance, however against the good ones....an extreme uphill fight

[Deleted]

Answer to all: You haven't played a warrior on the last year. And a couple of asnwers for the not subjective/watched on youtube instead of played things:

You haven't played other classes either. Only ferals and Rets (which "don't count" somehow because they don't have a snare, even if every ret out there plays with a comp that snares for him) move faster? Rogues move faster. Priests move faster. DKs move faster. Ferals move faster. Rets move faster. (every melee, except warrs and shamans, move faster). Put Ghost Wolf there if you want and shamans run faster. And probably I'm forgetting others.

Nor you have played the beta. What exactly are they changing on hamstring (besides removing Imp. Hamstring and making it worse?) Do you mean the glyph of Heroic Strike? Because if it's that, I agree that removing hamstring from your bars improves it, yes. Why improve a badly designed skill when you can make people force to glyph another skill to do the job, right?

[ViskoGaming]

I love how pretty much all the arguments against warriors are just "good" warriors don't have issues with that. What about terribad players that simply have better tools and an a lot easier time in pvp. No, but warriors should have to be much more skilled than the average player to even play on the same level as them...cuz that is balanced right?

[Paradox7]

Answer to all: You haven't played a warrior on the last year. And a couple of asnwers for the not subjective/watched on youtube instead of played things:

Just don't talk shit about what you don't know. I have played warrior in the last year, as I said I enjoy playing it as my alt I can annihilate people in bgs, wars are about balanced atm, they are neither bottom of chain nor top the only difference from a year ago is that they are no longer doing OP damage compared to hp pools. This causes bad players who relied on that damage to throw their rattle across the room and scream like their class is useless, when in reality its just not OP anymore and they can either grow up and deal with this and enter discussions with backed up reasons or whine and simply state warriors are "the worse" because other classes have x, they generally choose the latter.

You haven't played other classes either. Only ferals and Rets (which "don't count" somehow because they don't have a snare, even if every ret out there plays with a comp that snares for him) move faster? Rogues move faster.

Oh the teamate excuse was wondering when this would show up, nothing stopping you using a teamate with a snare as powerful :O
Okay you have me on rogues move faster, honestly didn't even notice that was in there still haven't played my rogue in well over a year, I tend to not play classes that are OP and tbh their movement speed isn't exactly what is OP about them....

As I said rets dont count as they dont have a slow, you have 2, you slow them you are faster than them, ergo absolutely no reason to whine also they need to judge someone who is over a certain range away before they can get said speed boost which is only for a limited time.

Priests move faster.

A WHOLE 6% when in inner will OP!1!!!!1!1!!!

DKs move faster. Ferals move faster. Rets move faster. (every melee, except warrs and shamans, move faster). Put Ghost Wolf there if you want and shamans run faster. And probably I'm forgetting others.

Ok I see no other way than explaining very VERY basic characteristics of the game to you, warriors are designed around using charges to move around the battle, dks have to waddle except when using grip you can use charge twice basically before grips off cd. Shamans cant use abilities in ghost wolf so......why are you even whinging about it??? Do you want ghost wolf? Warriors have amazing mobility, the reason they don't have a speed movement increase is because they have other options to get to enemies and friends, you should have little trouble sticking to a target as a warrior unless you are against a mage without a dispeller it is really that simple.

Nor you have played the beta. What exactly are they changing on hamstring (besides removing Imp. Hamstring and making it worse?) Do you mean the glyph of Heroic Strike? Because if it's that, I agree that removing hamstring from your bars improves it, yes. Why improve a badly designed skill when you can make people force to glyph another skill to do the job, right?

I have gone through every wow expansion now, with each expansion I have looked less and less at each expansions alpha and beta patch notes they bring out UNTIL I get accepted into their beta or the patch is on the ptr. Many abilities dont make it so there is no point looking into each and every patch. So instead I glance over it every now and then, last I heard hamstring was attached to rend in some way, if thats not true anymore then fair enough I may be wrong but most of the whine brought up about warriors on the original page was mainly due to current "issues" which still mainly boil down to "l2p and its fine"
There are plenty of warriors over the 2.2k mark both on eu and us + its only after that rating that they truely become "countered" and that once again brings me back to my original point, that they are countered by the large amount of teams at high ratings with either or both a mage and rogue. That is where warriors fall in representation because almost every team at those ratings has one of them. Also if you look at the tournament realm warriors are doing VERY well there because its back to last seasons gear, mages and rogues havent scaled into godmode and their damage compared to healthpools is OP again and strangely enough warriors are doing very well well. If they had all these mobility problems you guys keep whining about, their damage would be irrelevant as they wouldn't be able to touch anything.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 10:38 PM ----------

I love how pretty much all the arguments against warriors are just "good" warriors don't have issues with that. What about terribad players that simply have better tools and an a lot easier time in pvp. No, but warriors should have to be much more skilled than the average player to even play on the same level as them...cuz that is balanced right?

It is extremely hard to understand what you are attempting to say/follow where your argument is going, if what you are trying to say is warriors need to be better than others to compete on even terms, they dont....not even close infact its pretty faceroll up to about 1800, you can pretty much roll your face across the keyboard and obtain that rating. If you want to compete at HIGH rating (ie 2.2k+), you need to play MUCH better than most of your opponents.

[Flaks]

Paradox, what don't you understand about warriors are THE MOST EASILY PEELABLE CLASS IN THE GAME. We require more uptime than other classes due to our burst being entirely balanced around LttS and that any competent team will make sure that a warrior doesn't get 3 stacks up. Any and all current warrior comps revolve around ensuring that the warrior is baby sat enough to get those 3 stacks up so that they can move in for a kill. EVERY SINGLE OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME BRINGS WHAT WARRIORS HAVE AND MORE IN 4.3.

[Paradox7]

You are as easy to peel as any other class however you have the shortest cd on any class in the game, therefore no you are not the easiest to peel. If warriors were in such a bad state why were they so good for all of cata up until now? You cannot prevent a warrior from getting LttS up.....You guys are crying as if warriors never have uptime, dont do any damage and cry about how "every other class is better" if its so bad then reroll im sorry to say but honest to fucking god the good players dont have much of a problem until higher ratings, and I doubt many of you are high rated here.

[Exerionx]

Gotta agree with people on the mobility topic here - you lads are very easy to peal. I don't care if you have a short charge CD, I still think it's very easy to CC you guys to a point where I feel bad for you atm.

Sometimes I hesitate zerging classes in BG's but with Warriors it's like; "lol cake".

[Chogrin]

as far as a short charge CD is concerned. yes we have a short charge Cd, but we do not have the ability to charge, if we are in a frost nova, a frost mage's pet nova, cone of cold nova, if you are stunned, scattered, rooted in place. So that is where the mobility lies. Even the fact we can be CC'd in the middle of a charge. That is the main issue why warriors cry for the fact our moblily is poor and why we are easy to peel.

[Paradox7]

as far as a short charge CD is concerned. yes we have a short charge Cd, but we do not have the ability to charge, if we are in a frost nova, a frost mage's pet nova, cone of cold nova, if you are stunned, scattered, rooted in place. So that is where the mobility lies. Even the fact we can be CC'd in the middle of a charge. That is the main issue why warriors cry for the fact our moblily is poor and why we are easy to peel.

I have yet to see anyone other than the MOST laggy person in THE WORLD get cced in any shape or form in the middle of the charge, and no mele can use a gap closer in a root other than dks....thats kinda the point of roots to get distance. Dont worry im not defending mages, they are just stupid atm but saying warriors mobility is bad because of root is stupid, you root escapes are bad mobility is great.

[Hypnozis]

I really dont have a problem with the way warriors are in MOP so far, the only thing that I would like to see is a more constant heal, atm it seems like every class has a heal that they can do to stay alive, and atm on live enraged regen to be honest is crap, and with the amount of cooldown its sad, even if you face against a healer and they just use basic dots on you if you dont time interupts right and your going against them, a healer can even beat a warrior (disc priest - smite spec - is the one im mainly talking about). That is the one thing that I would like to see adjusted in MOP with it being less reliant on a healer to follow us. I think the victory rush is a step in the right direction for us. However i wish they would have gave us a option like that while still being able to keep enraged regen, because atm its like taking flash away from a paladin and asking them to chose between 3 different heals to only have 1.

[Deleted]

The warriors mobility is obviously worse now than what it was when they still had intercept. I think they should just bring intercept back and that part of warriors would be then fine. Or maybe it would even be too strong because of heroic leap, even though the leap isn't that good and quite buggy.

[TJ]

I have yet to see anyone other than the MOST laggy person in THE WORLD get cced in any shape or form in the middle of the charge, and no mele can use a gap closer in a root other than dks....thats kinda the point of roots to get distance. Dont worry im not defending mages, they are just stupid atm but saying warriors mobility is bad because of root is stupid, you root escapes are bad mobility is great.

Mobility is great? are we talking about the same game here? Warrior mobility is terrible and Heroic Leap is buggy as hell whilst having a too long cd, not to mention a disarm counters your best chance of getting damage in and avoiding cc (Bladestorm).

Beta is looking good though, 30 second Heroic Leap whilst glyphed, Avatar (no denying it's op but the principle is good), Heroic Throw silence with shorter cd, and more options for Charge.

[meathead]

I really dont have a problem with the way warriors are in MOP so far, the only thing that I would like to see is a more constant heal, atm it seems like every class has a heal that they can do to stay alive, and atm on live enraged regen to be honest is crap, and with the amount of cooldown its sad, even if you face against a healer and they just use basic dots on you if you dont time interupts right and your going against them, a healer can even beat a warrior (disc priest - smite spec - is the one im mainly talking about). That is the one thing that I would like to see adjusted in MOP with it being less reliant on a healer to follow us. I think the victory rush is a step in the right direction for us. However i wish they would have gave us a option like that while still being able to keep enraged regen, because atm its like taking flash away from a paladin and asking them to chose between 3 different heals to only have 1.

what should be done is for blizz to buff 2nd wind.keep the 3% heal at -35% health
"like it is on beta.and bring back the 10% chance for a %heal on any damage "like it is on live". over 35% health.#'s can be adjusted and it would still heal for less the recup does on live.this would give warriors a reliable heal.

[Paradox7]

Mobility IS great how is 13 second charge NOT great no class can move around the bg as quickly as a warrior if they use charge, leap and intervene correctly but yeah their only root break tied into bladestorm is pretty shitty and heroic leap is a pos however the 30 sec cd on it on mop will be pretty crazy though especially with avatar.

[Wow]

what should be done is for blizz to buff 2nd wind.keep the 3% heal at -35% health
"like it is on beta.and bring back the 10% chance for a %heal on any damage "like it is on live". over 35% health.#'s can be adjusted and it would still heal for less the recup does on live.this would give warriors a reliable heal.

10% chance and reliable heal interesting choice of words. Also 3% every sec vs 3% every 3secs...

[PizzaSHARK]

Mobility is great? are we talking about the same game here? Warrior mobility is terrible and Heroic Leap is buggy as hell whilst having a too long cd, not to mention a disarm counters your best chance of getting damage in and avoiding cc (Bladestorm).

Beta is looking good though, 30 second Heroic Leap whilst glyphed, Avatar (no denying it's op but the principle is good), Heroic Throw silence with shorter cd, and more options for Charge.

The main issue with Heroic Leap is that it won't allow use on any sort of inclined plane, it's pretty much impossible to use while swimming (really only comes into play in Twin Peaks), and it can be buggy sometimes. I don't like our mobility being designed and balanced around an ability that only works "sometimes."

We also don't really get options on Charge... everyone's taking Juggernaut and that's the end of it. Double Time functions like runes, meaning the second Charge has a whopping 40s cooldown while the first has a 20s cooldown... eww, no.

I think Arms will be fine. I'm wanting to make sure Fury and Prot are capable of competing, too, though.

[asharia]

Just don't talk shit about what you don't know. I have played warrior in the last year, as I said I enjoy playing it as my alt I can annihilate people in bgs, wars are about balanced atm, they are neither bottom of chain nor top the only difference from a year ago is that they are no longer doing OP damage compared to hp pools. This causes bad players who relied on that damage to throw their rattle across the room and scream like their class is useless, when in reality its just not OP anymore and they can either grow up and deal with this and enter discussions with backed up reasons or whine and simply state warriors are "the worse" because other classes have x, they generally choose the latter.


Oh the teamate excuse was wondering when this would show up, nothing stopping you using a teamate with a snare as powerful :O
Okay you have me on rogues move faster, honestly didn't even notice that was in there still haven't played my rogue in well over a year, I tend to not play classes that are OP and tbh their movement speed isn't exactly what is OP about them....

As I said rets dont count as they dont have a slow, you have 2, you slow them you are faster than them, ergo absolutely no reason to whine also they need to judge someone who is over a certain range away before they can get said speed boost which is only for a limited time.

A WHOLE 6% when in inner will OP!1!!!!1!1!!!


Ok I see no other way than explaining very VERY basic characteristics of the game to you, warriors are designed around using charges to move around the battle, dks have to waddle except when using grip you can use charge twice basically before grips off cd. Shamans cant use abilities in ghost wolf so......why are you even whinging about it??? Do you want ghost wolf? Warriors have amazing mobility, the reason they don't have a speed movement increase is because they have other options to get to enemies and friends, you should have little trouble sticking to a target as a warrior unless you are against a mage without a dispeller it is really that simple.



I have gone through every wow expansion now, with each expansion I have looked less and less at each expansions alpha and beta patch notes they bring out UNTIL I get accepted into their beta or the patch is on the ptr. Many abilities dont make it so there is no point looking into each and every patch. So instead I glance over it every now and then, last I heard hamstring was attached to rend in some way, if thats not true anymore then fair enough I may be wrong but most of the whine brought up about warriors on the original page was mainly due to current "issues" which still mainly boil down to "l2p and its fine"
There are plenty of warriors over the 2.2k mark both on eu and us + its only after that rating that they truely become "countered" and that once again brings me back to my original point, that they are countered by the large amount of teams at high ratings with either or both a mage and rogue. That is where warriors fall in representation because almost every team at those ratings has one of them. Also if you look at the tournament realm warriors are doing VERY well there because its back to last seasons gear, mages and rogues havent scaled into godmode and their damage compared to healthpools is OP again and strangely enough warriors are doing very well well. If they had all these mobility problems you guys keep whining about, their damage would be irrelevant as they wouldn't be able to touch anything.

---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 10:38 PM ----------



It is extremely hard to understand what you are attempting to say/follow where your argument is going, if what you are trying to say is warriors need to be better than others to compete on even terms, they dont....not even close infact its pretty faceroll up to about 1800, you can pretty much roll your face across the keyboard and obtain that rating. If you want to compete at HIGH rating (ie 2.2k+), you need to play MUCH better than most of your opponents.

Play a warrior and then come back and re-read what you posted.