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  1. #1

    GW2 eSports and the Community

    Guild wars 2 is gearing up for its release and many questions are being asked about the truth behind if GW2 will make it in the eSports scene.

    It all honestly starts with you and me. The more people exposed to the scene the better. Tell your friends, tell your neighbors, tell your guild. The more people talking about it, the better. It is our duty to help this community grow.

    GW2 eSports guilds have the responsibility to foster the community and create a welcoming environment for those wishing to join our community. Multiple guilds have done the right thing and are trying to create places people can discuss the eSports side of GW2 with a firm dedication to professionalism. This is something we should expect out of our community, Professionalism.

    I think we all know the stigmas of many previous eSports communities; Elitist, rude, unfriendly, and mean. We need to work together to create an environment that encourages development and respect. Our community is a fledgling at best and it is our duty to foster it.

    We can do this many ways, but most of all, police yourselves and to gain respect you must give it. I hope everyone can read this and feel deep down a responsibility to strive for a community that we can all be look up to.

    I hope my words have sank deep enough within your minds to understand this community is what we make it and we have the opportunity to do something great here. Please strive to be an example we can be proud of.

    That being said, please join the community over at http://www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports/

  2. #2
    Until it has observer mode, eSports is largely out the question.

    To be an eSport, the game needs to be fun to watch, not just play. This is why things like Starcraft 2 and League of Legends are so popular; they're more fun to watch than actually play for a lot of people. I don't doubt ArenaNet's ability to balance PvP and add content to it and not just throw it into the gutter like Blizzard do, but I'm still wondering if sPvP will be enjoyable to watch. You can get people like Day[9] and HuskyStarcraft to cast games, but even they can't make a boring game entertaining.

    And of course, we'd also need the eSports community to actually care. It would require sponsors, community approval, live events with large cash prizes, teams, and so on. That doesn't really happen over night.

    Also, a replay system like SC2 has would be really nice to have, but not required.

    However, in my honest opinion, Guild Wars 2 has the highest chance to become a successful eSport of any current MMO. If there had to be one, then this would be the best choice. The way the PvP works completely eliminates all the downfalls of other MMOs: gear. You can buy the game, and go into PvP 5 minutes after logging in and be at no more disadvantage then a 5 year vet, with the exception of ignorance, of course.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2012-07-10 at 12:13 AM.
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  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Until it has observer mode
    I'll go out on a limb and propose the new "vistas" system is based on code/technology they're working on for observer mode.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mif View Post
    I'll go out on a limb and propose the new "vistas" system is based on code/technology they're working on for observer mode.
    or based on normal camera pans for things like tutorial bosses and some personal story cinematics(like iron legion charr ghost weapon)

  5. #5
    Much nastier problem is current lack of a proper "esport game mode". Current sPvP is trash for any kind of competitive gameplay for a wide number of reasons already well documented on most PvP-dedicated forums. They did promise that they will bring modes that work better in competitive environment, but whether they will make it for release, and how fast developers will be able to balance both game and gameplay modes to allow for good enough balance for esports in another thing entirely.

    I'd wait a couple of months after release to see what kind of game longevity and population we'll have first before even talking about esports, and about the same amount to get the initial balance ironed out. After that, if the game is still going strong and basic balanced is achieved, we can start talking esports.

    At the moment however, it's very premature. This isn't even putting the cart before the horse, as the horse is still a fetus and the cart is just a bunch of trees in the forest and a plan in carpenter's head.

  6. #6
    They said they were aiming for eSports. But they cant make that happen before release, so it'll come down to how they do their jobs post-launch.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by terrahero View Post
    They said they were aiming for eSports. But they cant make that happen before release, so it'll come down to how they do their jobs post-launch.
    They could if they actually wanted to. First GW1 GvG tournament was held while GW1 was still in beta. That's why koreans kicked everyone's asses in early prophecies after release, they had their GW1 esports scene already going strong while everyone else was still getting their bearings.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    They could if they actually wanted to. First GW1 GvG tournament was held while GW1 was still in beta. That's why koreans kicked everyone's asses in early prophecies after release, they had their GW1 esports scene already going strong while everyone else was still getting their bearings.
    GW2 is somewhat more complex in design than GW1
    because they could do it with GW1 doesn't mean they can do it before release with GW2. I'm sure they would if they could as it would increase interest..

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    GW2 is somewhat more complex in design than GW1
    Bullshit. The sheer complexity of GvG maps alone is probably harsher then complexity of skills and maps in GW2 combined.

    The massive complexity of having a free hand of assembling a build of 8x8 vs 8x8 skills out of hundreds of skills in GW1 wipes the floor with GW2's handful of choices for 5x6 skills with massively gimped synergies in GW2 due to lack of friendly casting and far less complex buff and debuff system.


    Hell, one of the big selling points for GW2 was that they simplified it a lot so it's more accessible.
    Last edited by Lucky_; 2012-07-10 at 05:29 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Bullshit. The sheer complexity of GvG maps alone is probably harsher then complexity of skills and maps in GW2 combined.

    The massive complexity of having a free hand of assembling a build of 8x8 vs 8x8 skills out of hundreds of skills in GW1 wipes the floor with GW2's handful of choices for 5x6 skills with massively gimped synergies in GW2 due to lack of friendly casting and far less complex buff and debuff system.


    Hell, one of the big selling points for GW2 was that they simplified it a lot so it's more accessible.
    I mean GW2 as a game is more complex and difficult to design than GW1 was. So.....they're spending they're resources on other things for now. Wasn't talking specifically about gvg.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jso View Post
    or based on normal camera pans for things like tutorial bosses and some personal story cinematics(like iron legion charr ghost weapon)
    Drat

    ....

  12. #12
    Don't think ill bother, wont be getting the game until I'm certain it isn't crap, fed up of wasting money on crap games i end up not playing.

    Please stay on topic. This thread is about esports and the community (it's in the title), not whether or not you are going to buy the game. -Edge
    Last edited by Edge-; 2012-07-10 at 06:37 AM.
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  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Nest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akamurdoch View Post
    Don't think ill bother, wont be getting the game until I'm certain it isn't crap, fed up of wasting money on crap games i end up not playing.
    I suggest trying the beta then, Curse will be handing out the beta keys in 35 min. ;3
    Heyoo!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by akamurdoch View Post
    Don't think ill bother, wont be getting the game until I'm certain it isn't crap, fed up of wasting money on crap games i end up not playing.
    I really don't understand posts like this. The question was not "Do you think you'll buy GW2?", it was a conversation about an aspect of GW2. That's like me jumping into random WoW threads about raiding in MoP just to say "I don't play WoW anymore.", a point that I'm sure no one gives the slightest amount of shit about. o.O

  15. #15
    I think that we shouldn't dismiss objective based gameplay as a valid esport platform. To be honest, not every esport game revolves around deathmatch. For example CounterStrike is very often seen as pure deathmatch game, but the truth is that on most maps more important is the bomb placement than pure killing. We don't have to argue about games like LoL or Dota2(strong rise) being popular esport, it's a fact, neither of them have deathmatch mode. Killing other player is a mean to an end, not the main objective.

    I'm not worried about capture and hold type of sPvP, I am worried about other features like good observer mode, proper online statistics, tourney's infrastructure and tools. Hell, a recording function would be nice too.

    So yeah...

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    A MMO is not a good E-sports to watch honestly. An E-sports generally is something between 2 players in a 1v1 duel, though this can ofcourse like LoL be a lot more players, that still doesnt make it fun to watch general PVP.
    There is if we are extremely honest not much individual skill involved and its far more focussed on team based stuff. And while this with normal sports is fun to watch there is simply to much going on in a giant PVP zone to make something like that work in a form that is enjoyable to watch.
    If it was something between 10 or so players in a small arena it would maybe IF BALANCED (which not any MMO has ever been) be bareable to watch.
    In the end GW2 is not ever going to become an E-Sports its something to dragged out.. and in all fairness boring to watch. Which is the problem with all MMO's fun to play.. incredibly boring to watch.

    While we all dread the Arena PVP its honestly the only viable E-Sports MMO type of PVP match to watch. The rest .. is simply kinda boring and far to slow paced.
    So if GW2 was balanced in a 1v1 level all classes against all classes. And there was an Arena type of mode in a smaller area then then the large PVP zones. And it had a way for a caster to view it all in birds eye view/tools to cast games about it properly. And maybe even have a system to record matches like SC2 and share them.. yes then it might have a chance to becoming an E-Sports. But for now while it has the most potential of any MMO on the E-Sports department.. it will not become anything big like SC2 and LoL HoN or Quake.

  17. #17
    I don't see how anyone can watch others play a video game. But yeah, anyway, observer mode must be in before any thought of it becoming a spectator activity.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schippie View Post
    A MMO is not a good E-sports to watch honestly. An E-sports generally is something between 2 players in a 1v1 duel, though this can ofcourse like LoL be a lot more players, that still doesnt make it fun to watch general PVP.
    There is if we are extremely honest not much individual skill involved and its far more focussed on team based stuff. And while this with normal sports is fun to watch there is simply to much going on in a giant PVP zone to make something like that work in a form that is enjoyable to watch.
    If it was something between 10 or so players in a small arena it would maybe IF BALANCED (which not any MMO has ever been) be bareable to watch.
    In the end GW2 is not ever going to become an E-Sports its something to dragged out.. and in all fairness boring to watch. Which is the problem with all MMO's fun to play.. incredibly boring to watch.

    While we all dread the Arena PVP its honestly the only viable E-Sports MMO type of PVP match to watch. The rest .. is simply kinda boring and far to slow paced.
    So if GW2 was balanced in a 1v1 level all classes against all classes. And there was an Arena type of mode in a smaller area then then the large PVP zones. And it had a way for a caster to view it all in birds eye view/tools to cast games about it properly. And maybe even have a system to record matches like SC2 and share them.. yes then it might have a chance to becoming an E-Sports. But for now while it has the most potential of any MMO on the E-Sports department.. it will not become anything big like SC2 and LoL HoN or Quake.
    I gotta disagree here. GW2 definitely has everything in place (except for observer mode, which is coming post-launch) to make it as an e-sport. The 5v5 setup and map size is reminiscent of MOBA's, and actually the gameplay is as well.

    The combat style in gw2 is also focused on visuals, which makes it easier for the viewers to see what's going on, once they know the basic skills (weapon sets help here as well since half the skills are known by looking at the weapon the player is wearing).

    As for arenas, they are boring to watch and more build/gear-dependent than what GW2 is doing. Watching 4-10 people hitting each other is also not really fun. Which is why Anet went with an objective-based pvp system.
    The points make it easy to see who's got the upper hand. In arena's, not so much.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-10 at 10:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I don't see how anyone can watch others play a video game. But yeah, anyway, observer mode must be in before any thought of it becoming a spectator activity.
    Actually, I like watching sc2 games, but I hate playing the game myself.
    Last edited by jvbastel; 2012-07-10 at 08:11 AM.

  19. #19
    As much as I love GW2, I don't think it'll take off as an esport. MMO PvP really doesn't make for a good spectator experience IMO.

  20. #20
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickz View Post
    As much as I love GW2, I don't think it'll take off as an esport. MMO PvP really doesn't make for a good spectator experience IMO.
    Exactly.. and that is what i was trying to say.

    How much you want to do .. MMO PVP i always unbalanced.. has huge problems and is generally speaking slow paced. Yes SC2 the first 6 minutes is slow paced to.. but after that it starts to pick up speed. Something MMO's dont really have and never will, also i dont see MLG making GW2 anything big.. dont think you would even ever see it there.

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