Confusion between cleric and warrior classes?

[Ishida52134]

I'm confused about the cleric and warrior classes. I clearly understand all the differences between them and the hybrid jobs between them as well such as paladins and monks.

However, my question is that why do some games put warrior-like classes under the cleric category?

For example, in DFO (dungeon fighters online) they make the priest class, but it is a lot more like the warrior archetype than the cleric class, yet they still call it a priest.
In Ragnarok Online, the monk subclass of the cleric category has very limited white magic abilities and shares much more similarities with the warrior class, yet the devs placed it under the cleric category.
And also, in Rift, some classes under the cleric category seem to be as physically fit as the warriors like shaman and druid and sentinels.

So, why do they do this, is it a mistake? Or do the some devs simply put classes that have any amount of holy magic abilities under the cleric?

[Loaf Lord]

Sometimes they feel the need to make said class a cleric type class since that class has a religious theme to it. And as I recall from D&D, shamans and druids were cleric-esque classes. Same with everquest. A lot of it stems from old stereotyping. A shaman in real life is a healer who uses the spirit world to remove curses and heal wounds. A druid was basically a celtic priest.

[Kankuri]

If you are ever confused about classes, just consult Dungeons & Dragons.

In the first edition of Dungeons & Dragons, the cleric character class was a simulation of a soldier devotee of a sacred order who received spell powers from divine sources, to be a spellcaster who was not a magician and who also had physical power between that of the magic-user and the fighter (for instance, was able to use all armor and shields).
The cleric is largely inspired by folklore of the medieval cleric of Templar.[2]

The fighter, as part of the "warrior" group, was one of the standard character classes available in the second edition Player's Handbook.[4]:84-85 The second edition Player's Handbook gives several examples of famous fighters from legend: Hercules, Perseus, Hiawatha, Beowulf, Siegfried, Cuchulain, Little John, Tristan, and Sinbad.[6] The book also cites a number of great generals and warriors: El Cid, Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Charlemagne, Spartacus, Richard the Lionheart, and Belisarius.[6]

As for the developers putting various classes under confusing groups, it's an attempt to be different. It usually results in class categories looking very stupid.

[mistuhbull]

in the most basic way possible

Man + Sword + Armor = Warrior
Man + Sword + Armor + God = Cleric
Man + Sword + Armor + God + Fanatical Devotion = Paladin
Man + God = Priest

[Caiada]

Most MMOs just name them whatever they want, basically. It's more of a visual theme than anything.

[Ishida52134]

so basically those kinds of clerics are just hybrids with warriors and healers?

---------- Post added 2012-07-11 at 03:30 AM ----------

and where under the traditional classes do engineers fit?
like the engineers in dragon nest and in guild wars 2.

[Fencers]

they do this, is it a mistake? Or do the some devs simply put classes that have any amount of holy magic abilities under the cleric?

Well, Priest and Cleric class archetypes are not necessarily the same. Typically Cleric archetypes are loosely a more martial arm of a particular sect, religion or belief system. Whereas Priestly archetypes are considered to be [again] loosely speaking, more scholarly members of a sect, religion, etc.

For example, in D&D Clerics traditionally were akin to battlefield preachers, so to speak. They wore chain armor, carried heavy blunt weapons [maces, scepters, flails] and could wear heavy shields. Also wielding magic though came to their magical feats more slowly than the Wizard or Sorcerer archetypes.

In game systems the desire to create hybrid classes is the root cause of the Cleric/Priest divide.

"I want a Warrior [master-at-arms] combined with the ability heal myself... eureka! Templar! Paladin, Hospitalier!"

"Hm, well I did divine magic but I don't want to slug heavy armor around... Cabalist! Shaman! Thurge! Inquisitor!"

[Loaf Lord]

so basically those kinds of clerics are just hybrids with warriors and healers?

---------- Post added 2012-07-11 at 03:30 AM ----------

and where under the traditional classes do engineers fit?
like the engineers in dragon nest and in guild wars 2.

Engineers aren't really a common class in fantasy. If I had to label an engineer it'd be somewhere under the rogue archetype... maybe? Depends. The engineer for torchlight 2 would definitely be under the warrior archetype though.

[Ishida52134]

so it's basically up to the dev how to divide classes, but these combat hybrid classes could just go under the warrior category just as much right?

[Loaf Lord]

Yeah pretty much, every developer has their own opinions on how they want to label.

[Ishida52134]

how would one describe to another what class they like if names vary from game to game?
For example, say one likes the warrior and rogue classes the most and wants to convey that idea. The obvious choice would be physical attacks which both of them share in common. However, the rogue can mean just be a thief who doesn't fight at all or a clever talker.

[Drakhar]

Behold, my made up spectrum of all "holy warrior" classes...

<--Holy Power-----------------Physical Strength-->
<--Priest---------------Cleric-------------Paladin-->

A straight-up warrior I wouldn't associate with this diagram, except to maybe compare him to a Paladin and say what he lacks in magical prowess he makes up for with a wider range of combat abilities or strengths. In short, a Cleric is a Priest that actually learned how to wear armor, but isn't really similar to a Warrior at all.

[Ishida52134]

Btw, where in the traditional archetypes do engineers fit? I heard it basically depends on the game, but it can range from mages to rogues to even warriors, like iron man.
and also, would a stealthy mage be considered a rogue with magic powers? Or just a mage with stealthy abilities..