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  1. #21
    The Insane Rivin's Avatar
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    Impale isn't dangerous on the level of content I'm doing. Tetanus is.

    Also, "vice" is defined as "a fault, defect, or weakness", just so you know.

  2. #22
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    Also, "vice" is defined as "a fault, defect, or weakness", just so you know.
    Fixed, as you've noticed english is my third language . Mistakes such as these are inevitable.

    Impale isn't dangerous on the level of content I'm doing. Tetanus is.
    Nothing should be dangerous at this point tbh, if we're talking about 0% buff (hc content ofc) and perfect conditions (solo tanking) impales are the worst.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-13 at 06:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by krethos View Post
    Tanks becoming re-active based is a good thing. It will show the difference between a good and bad tank, just as it has with DK's over Cata.

    Also glyph changes are quick as hell to do, so if you have a fight that needs 20/20 DP you glyph it, if its heavy magic fight, you change back, it is actually a buff being able to do that between fights.

    Not one class has "vices" anymore, all the tanks have pretty much got everything covered on both fronts.

    I very much hope the Beta changes stay, and would also suggest playing it more, since you said you've only just picked BETA up, it is probably weird to you because its just new.

    also must say, A LOT! of fights in MoP have heavy magic damage.
    Please read this thread again! Thank you !
    Not one class has "vices" anymore, all the tanks have pretty much got everything covered on both fronts.
    DK's say hi! Yor'sahj waves aswell!

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-13 at 06:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Wait, what? Since when have we had issues with physical damage fights?
    Wrong Word hehe :P .
    I expected abit more from you !
    Last edited by mmocc821db3b3d; 2012-07-13 at 06:24 PM.

  3. #23
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    I think the issue is that you're assuming boss fights will have the same design theory that they've had. Boss fights will have to change because they're changing the way tanking works. Damage levels won't be the same as what we've seen, so it's difficult to judge new mechanics based on old bosses.

    And in what way are we weak against magic? Sure, DKs may have it the easiest to deal with, but that doesn't mean that we're terrible.
    Host of Talking Skritt, a GW2 podcast!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    I think the issue is that you're assuming boss fights will have the same design theory that they've had. Boss fights will have to change because they're changing the way tanking works. Damage levels won't be the same as what we've seen, so it's difficult to judge new mechanics based on old bosses.

    And in what way are we weak against magic? Sure, DKs may have it the easiest to deal with, but that doesn't mean that we're terrible.
    The theory is the same, just passive mitigation is now moved to a more active style. The fights will be more or the less same in regards to type of dmg dealt ( have seen no pure magic fights yet)and as such the issue still stands ( 1 glyph loss ) and more importantly the loss of a shield which was a great utility for some situations.

    AS for the what if we are weak against magic... well atleast we should be strong against physical. While no one is debating the viability the world of progression raiding is harsh and will usually pick the best for the job.
    Last edited by mmocc821db3b3d; 2012-07-13 at 06:34 PM.

  5. #25
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plushyeu View Post
    AS for the what if we are weak against magic... well atleast we should be strong against physical. While no one is debating the viability the world of progression raiding is harsh and will usually pick the best for the job.
    I'm not quite sure how that answers my question. We're not weak against magical damage, by any stretch of the imagination (especially considering the DP glyph). Nor does it appear that we'll be weak against magical damage in Mists, considering the new DP along with our ability to react to large damage spikes (which are usually magical) with WoG.

    As for 'progression' raiding: that's a world of fractions of a percent. If one tank can reduce damage by 0.01% more than another, that tank will be taken for progression/world first attempts.

    For the majority of raiders, the actual difference in tanks on fights will be negligible (as it should be).
    Host of Talking Skritt, a GW2 podcast!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    I'm not quite sure how that answers my question. We're not weak against magical damage, by any stretch of the imagination (especially considering the DP glyph). Nor does it appear that we'll be weak against magical damage in Mists, considering the new DP along with our ability to react to large damage spikes (which are usually magical) with WoG.

    As for 'progression' raiding: that's a world of fractions of a percent. If one tank can reduce damage by 0.01% more than another, that tank will be taken for progression/world first attempts.

    For the majority of raiders, the actual difference in tanks on fights will be negligible (as it should be).
    We still have to see how much of total healing WoG will do i guess.
    As for actual differences they are bigger than you think.. a great example would be the initial progress on Sarth where a DK was necessary.
    They've handled in decently but the differences are still huge and taking a certain class can sometimes save up to a day or more of wiping .
    Just compare their AMS (75% dmg reduction + 45 sec cd ) and with the glyph (100%).

    If this rly was just 0.01 % it would be fine but as many experienced tanks know ... this is usualy not the case.
    Hopefully they'll gain insight on this and change small things such as the DP invert they're playing around and also have an discussion or 2 about GBTL. A change as big as this usualy doesn't revert itself once it hits.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Plushyeu View Post
    We still have to see how much of total healing WoG will do i guess.
    As for actual differences they are bigger than you think.. a great example would be the initial progress on Sarth where a DK was necessary.
    Sarth is a terrible example precisely because dk's were admittedly broken and OP'd at that time, because they still had the niche of being the "magic fight" tank. DK's and the rest of the tanks are a lot closer now in terms of what they can handle than they wear then and thus far, nothing seems to be glaringly broken balance wise for MoP (more testing required of course)
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2012-07-13 at 08:11 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    I'm not quite sure how that answers my question. We're not weak against magical damage, by any stretch of the imagination (especially considering the DP glyph). Nor does it appear that we'll be weak against magical damage in Mists, considering the new DP along with our ability to react to large damage spikes (which are usually magical) with WoG.

    As for 'progression' raiding: that's a world of fractions of a percent. If one tank can reduce damage by 0.01% more than another, that tank will be taken for progression/world first attempts.

    For the majority of raiders, the actual difference in tanks on fights will be negligible (as it should be).
    The Mists of Pandaria flavor of Divine Protection isn't new at all, it's just switched. Whereas on live its 20% all damage reduction by default or 40% magic glyphed, in beta its 40% magic damage reduction default or 20% all glyphed. But I don't disagree with you about how vulnerable we might be to magic damage. It's just that the toolkit can seem anemic when compared to most notably the Death Knight and Monk.

    Complaints aren't really made about a hundredth of a percent. Using it because it's a current and convenient reference, a lot of dumb things happened in Dragon Soul (and to perhaps a slightly lesser extent Firelands), with rather noticeable differences in level of capability. Though, in my opinion, some of the annoyance could be relieved if they stopped making so many one tank fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plushyeu View Post
    AS for the what if we are weak against magic... well atleast we should be strong against physical. While no one is debating the viability the world of progression raiding is harsh and will usually pick the best for the job.
    It seems like it would only cause problems to have a tank that's strong against physical damage and fairly decent at the rest, and a tank that's strong against magical damage and fairly decent at the rest, as an extreme example. I very much would like Blizzard's claim to wanting the "choose the player not the class" philosophy to be true (since most of the groups I've been in have been a somewhat tight clique of friends that enjoy the class they currently are), but I shook my head in confusion when they also said they liked the idea of class stacking.
    Last edited by Elathi; 2012-07-13 at 08:48 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Plushyeu View Post

    Please read this thread again! Thank you !

    DK's say hi! Yor'sahj waves aswell!

    The thread was about MoP, not Live.
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

  10. #30
    Here are the things that are wrong about this thread.

    1) Losing overheal shield from GbtL isn't the end of the world. These "sky is falling" threads are seriously retarded. Live WoG and Beta WoG both have consequences to using them incorrectly.

    2) We lost a Glyph slot? Have you seen our Glyphs? Hold on let me list the ones that are mandatory, and the ones that can be situational:
    Mandatory - Divine Protection (May not be needed on some fights)
    Secondary (unnecessary) -
    Alabaster Shield
    Final Wrath
    Focused Shield

    The general Glyph lineup will be DP/Alabaster/Focused making the appropriate swaps depending on the fight.

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