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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    How would you like it if someone could walk up to you, if you maxed something like blacksmithing, and open up a window labeled "Use Player's Professions" and craft whatever they wanted so long as they used their own mats? Would you all be okay with that?
    Yes, actually, I'd be perfectly OK with that. I actually think that would be a damned good idea, to tell you the truth.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    Yeah, I know it's kind of wacky that people are calling enchanters selfish for wanting to disable this feature, while they say, "I don't want to level enchanting, I'd rather other people do it for me so I can leech their feature in dungeons." What's really selfish, here?

    Everybody thinks they are entitled to having those mats, but they aren't entitled. If they want them, they need to pay for the service or level it themselves, like they'd have to with any other profession.

    How would you like it if someone could walk up to you, if you maxed something like blacksmithing, and open up a window labeled "Use Player's Professions" and craft whatever they wanted so long as they used their own mats? Would you all be okay with that?
    Thank you. What bothers me about the DE button is that people just get to use my profession without me having any say in it.

    Enchanters are already at a disadvantage because most of our mats for the good enchants comes from group content. On top of the mats being harder to acquire, we then "give" 80% of the mats to other people. Sound fair?

    Now obviously, everybody in the group is entitled to the item that dropped (provided it isn't an upgrade for anyone). But does that mean that everybody is entitled to the shard/crystal that only the enchanter can make? That's where it gets fuzzy.

    The fact is, I can (hypothetically) group with an enchanter from my realm, gather a bunch of mats using THEIR profession, take the mats to THEM, and get a high-end enchant using the mats that THEY created all for a measly tip. I call that "using" someone.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    Yes, actually, I'd be perfectly OK with that. I actually think that would be a damned good idea, to tell you the truth.
    As do I. Saves me the trouble of trading for their mats, crafting the thing, and then trading it back. That actually sounds pretty dang great when I think about it.

  4. #24
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Enchanter here.

    Those other four people helped me get the item. I think they deserve a fair roll on the shard.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  5. #25
    The reason enchanting itself is profitable is because of low cost of mats. If you want to go back to the days of 5 figure prices for power torrent, be my guest, but big costs don't really go paired with big profits per se. The disenchant button is a nice way to have a decent amount of cheap mats flowing into the economy. If you want it to be removed best you can ask for is make disenchanting a seperate profession.

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  6. #26
    Scarab Lord foxHeart's Avatar
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    What happened before the disenchant button? Everyone greeded on greens (and blues/purples if nobody needed), sometimes the enchanter would shard everything and have people roll off at the end. If not, everyone would vendor the gear they won.

    What happens now? Greens and other drops that people don't want are sharded automatically, people vendoring them if no de is present.

    Nowhere along the line did those mats suddenly become property of the enchanter. It took a group effort to down that boss, so the group will roll off of them. Nothing has changed. Also, I love how enchanters bitch about "amg getting mats is soooo hard, i needz them!!1". Well, what does a greater influx of mats mean? That's right, cheaper prices. It's just another one of those things that people bicker about for no logical reason. And if you wanna pout about people skinning shit in instances and you not being able to roll on it - well, guess what? That skinner can go easily round up a mountain of mobs, aoe them down, and then get the exact same materials from them. Where can you get shards? Instances.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Pretty selfish attitude ^_^
    Well - having the only crafting profession that requires me to buy mats from the AH sort of sucks.

    Having said that - what would happen if all skinning, mining and herbing done in instances went to a random instead of the skinner, miner or herbie ?

    Would that be ok ?

    Just asking.

  8. #28
    Blizzard should probably implement rolling on skinning, mining, herbing, and deconstructing (engineer thing) to make it fair.

    Or, give the enchanter a bonus enchanting mat, like so:
    Everybody rolls, the non-enchanter wins the DE, then both the non-enchanter and the enchanter get their own copy of the DE mat.

  9. #29
    With 2 max level enchanters I have no issue with the current setup. I'd like, however, to be able to have a Disenchant button available when I'm soloing old content so I don't have to DE it myself later.

    Having max level toons in other professions does piss me off when it comes to BoE recipes I do not have. I wish someone with that profession who has not learned the recipe could roll need and it would become BoP and they could learn it, while the rest of the group could only roll greed. If they have the recipe learned then by all means gray out their ability to roll 'need' and let the group FFA roll it out for the AH/alts/guildmates/etc. I twice saw one of the rare enchanting schematics before I'd learned them in a 5man and lost one of the two rolls (50agi to bracers) to someone who left the group seconds after winning the roll.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    That's right, cheaper prices.
    Actually no ... more expensive prices. Used to be that purple > blue > green mats.

    Now - green mats are so damned expensive... all because of this new feature.

  11. #31
    Why do Enchanters feel like they own every piece of unwanted gear in the instance?

    First off, no one should be rolling need or DE on BoE greens.

    In the case of BoP drops from bosses, you young folks may not remember, but it was very common for these shards to be rolled upon at the end of an instance. Any enchanter who refused to do this would quickly find himself blackballed from the PuG scene.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome ayashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    And even on that topic, they have their gathering and crafting profession folded into one. So you know what? Remove Disenchanting from Enchanting if that's going to be the case! Have Disenchanting be it's own gathering profession and Enchanting it's own standalone crafting profession..
    As much as i usually agree with enchanters QQing about this mecanic that force them to share their prof with everyone, i do also have to agree that you have a point.
    Either de-enchanting should be made a separate proffesion... and for good messure also have an new gathering proffesion for cloth.
    Or otherwise have the other gathering profs rolled into the crafting ones: skinning into leatherworking, herbalist into alchemy and inscription, and lastly minning into JC, forge and engi

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post
    The reason enchanting itself is profitable is because of low cost of mats. If you want to go back to the days of 5 figure prices for power torrent, be my guest, but big costs don't really go paired with big profits per se. The disenchant button is a nice way to have a decent amount of cheap mats flowing into the economy. If you want it to be removed best you can ask for is make disenchanting a seperate profession.
    Power Torrent etc. cost five figures because there were no maelstrom crystals available via LFD until the Zuls came out. Most players didn't have the means to obtain the nine crystals it took to a) buy the pattern and b) craft PT

  14. #34
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Instances with mining nodes, herbs, and skinnable creatures don't have a feature for the mining node to be mined for the group. If a miner is present he gets that node for himself.
    However, you don't get a 'raw' node or something with no enchanter. These are not analogous

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Thank you. What bothers me about the DE button is that people just get to use my profession without me having any say in it.

    Enchanters are already at a disadvantage because most of our mats for the good enchants comes from group content. On top of the mats being harder to acquire, we then "give" 80% of the mats to other people. Sound fair?

    Now obviously, everybody in the group is entitled to the item that dropped (provided it isn't an upgrade for anyone). But does that mean that everybody is entitled to the shard/crystal that only the enchanter can make? That's where it gets fuzzy.

    The fact is, I can (hypothetically) group with an enchanter from my realm, gather a bunch of mats using THEIR profession, take the mats to THEM, and get a high-end enchant using the mats that THEY created all for a measly tip. I call that "using" someone.
    Except you're not giving mats to anyone. They were never your mats to begin with. There's an equal chance that he would get all the mats. You lose absolutely nothing when someone "uses" your DE.

    If you hadn't been able to use his DE to get mats, you wouldn't be able to go to him for the enchant, which means he would never have gotten your tip. It costs him literally nothing to DE the mats during the run.

    There is absolutely zero negative impact to having this option in the game. Not to the community, not to the game, and not to the economy.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Pretty selfish attitude ^_^
    People call it selfish but forget that nobody else has to do that.
    It is selfish only when I have the same choice as everyone else, and then deny others that opportunity.
    I have neither at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeina View Post
    Except you're not giving mats to anyone. They were never your mats to begin with. There's an equal chance that he would get all the mats. You lose absolutely nothing when someone "uses" your DE.

    If you hadn't been able to use his DE to get mats, you wouldn't be able to go to him for the enchant, which means he would never have gotten your tip. It costs him literally nothing to DE the mats during the run.

    There is absolutely zero negative impact to having this option in the game. Not to the community, not to the game, and not to the economy.
    And neither are the herbs/ores theirs or anybody else's to begin with.
    Doesn't cost a miner or herbalist to gather, but they still don't have to share.
    So your point is what exactly ?
    You have none.

    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    However, you don't get a 'raw' node or something with no enchanter. These are not analogous
    And nor does an enchanter have nodes out in the world they can fly between and gather from.
    Our source of materials is by far the most viable from one which unlike anyone else has to be competed for with a group, and with far lesser rate of return than anyone else's.
    Ours is reliant on groups, yours is not.
    Ours is therefore forcing us into competition.
    Yours is not.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2012-07-12 at 05:00 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudkiper View Post
    No other profession has the ability to take an item that the entire group has worked to obtain and then make it into something that is valuable to sell or able to be used to improve gear.
    They can greed the item all they want, I shouldn't be forced to DE it for them.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    Nowhere along the line did those mats suddenly become property of the enchanter. It took a group effort to down that boss, so the group will roll off of them. Nothing has changed.
    What changed is that the enchanter's profession suddenly became the property of the group. Also, the item is not the same as the DE materials of the item. Everyone fought for the item, but only one person can turn it into something other than vendor trash. So why does entitle everybody equally to it?

    I like the DE button. I just think it would be fair to the enchanter if there was a roll bonus (15 or 20) that allowed them to benefit more from their own profession than the people who aren't enchanters.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Power Torrent etc. cost five figures because there were no maelstrom crystals available via LFD until the Zuls came out. Most players didn't have the means to obtain the nine crystals it took to a) buy the pattern and b) craft PT
    Same would've happened (but to a lesser extent) with other enchanting mats then. If disenchant button wasn't there, enchanting would be pretty much the only way of getting mats (apart from justice points, not sure if those were implemented at start of cata), basically making it a double profession. Enchanters would have absolute control of both the material market and the end market, which is just too strong for a single profession. On top of that a lot more ninja'ing would also take place, 'cause hitting need on that piece of armor you can disenchant is a lot more tempting if it sells for 1000g instead of 100g. Enchanting is supposed to be a crafting profession primarly, not gathering and not both.

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  20. #40
    I cannot get into this again. I have said my piece. Mining gets smelting for what? What does Smelting have to do with mining? Isn't that a Blacksmiths job? I don't see coal miners refining coal. So why does Mining get Smelting? Mining also gets slight stat benefits. Seems pretty slated.

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