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  1. #561
    Like several others have said, I would love to see a proc for enchanters every time something is DEed. This way, non-enchanters can still get enchanting mats so the market doesn't become controlled by enchanters like some are worried about, and enchanters can get a perk for leveling their enchanting. In a way, everyone wins.

    I mean, I have no problem sharing my enchanting, but I'm still the one who put the effort into leveling it (which with the server I was on at the time was VERY difficult as mats on the AH were extremely overpriced at all levels and I had to farm a lot[but I did also get help from guildies, I'll be honest]).

    The point is, it is the only profession that's forced to share, and while I understand the reasons for that, I feel like I should still get something out of it. Some may consider that selfish, but it's not. It's trying to play fair.
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  2. #562
    I never, repeat never answer trade ads for LF Enchanter and only do in person enchants for friends and guild mates.
    That doesn't change a thing since a lot more will answer for such a request in trade channel...
    U can even find those who offers enchanting for free as long as they get lvling the profession (which is indeed a fair trade)...
    Before that time any enchanter in the groups from your server would do this service for nothing in instances.
    Nope, usually all enchanters used to ask for something in exchange that was considered a "fair and reasonable thing" compared to not gettin a single thing dc'ed... 10%--33% mats was considered a reasonable amount during pugged tbc dungeons hc or sometimes just the last epic item...

    Everybody still keeps in failing to explain how does a "disenchant button" affect positevely the Enchanting skill (both lvling and economy) from an enchanter point of view...
    cos it simply doesn't... and I still can't catch why ppl pretend to have enchanters happy to share materials among others "ALWAYS and under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" as long as they're grouped and online (u group an enchanter in Orgrimmar and u can dc all greenies inside ur alone Naxxramas run or whatever)...
    the best u can do is just keep offending claiming we're greedy and we don't want to share mats we need to validate our profession...
    if u think 1 single profession (such as tailoring) is easy to lvl since u can use it to both gather resources and lvl it then just ask to have the amount of material raised... u know what? u'll have fewer enchanters around... worst for u...

    Enchanting isn't the best raiding ability,
    Enchanting doesn't offer the best epic at the start of each expansion (or even a few lvl under),
    Enchanting hurts ur economy since u have to enchant every single upgrade u're gonna get...
    Somebody is rite to claim u can just ds greenies/epics/blues from other professions such as it was done on start with eng helm to get resources...
    then why just u don't make an enchanter instead of claiming some1 can get other 2 professions (or just tailoring to do the same thing)...

    Since the Disenchant button is something related to the Enchanting skill that's something supposed to be discussed with those having that profession...
    I don't get why we should get advices from those without it... and i couldn't care less about ur opinions...
    the main goal for non enchanters is "keep the button as it is to have a change to get mats instead of 5-25g items"... for u it's just gain whatever u look at it... for enchanters it's just a loss...
    that's ok... but i want something in return... lemme get some dust or shards or shimmering stones depending on the one i'm short and lemme do it manually since i might double the amount of materials due to guild perk...

    If u think removing the disenchant button would hurt significantly the economy >
    God, make a damned tank or healer with it and have profit... (but it won't...)
    Last edited by frengo123; 2012-07-19 at 10:07 PM.

  3. #563
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frengo123 View Post
    Nope, usually all enchanters used to ask for something in exchange that was considered a "fair and reasonable thing" compared to not gettin a single thing dc'ed... 10%--33% mats was considered a reasonable amount during pugged tbc dungeons hc or sometimes just the last epic item...

    Everybody still keeps in failing to explain how does a "disenchant button" affect positevely the Enchanting skill (both lvling and economy) from an enchanter point of view...
    Several people have explained that already. The profession of enchanting is more profitable because of the increased number of enchanting mats that are available. Enchanters who understand how to maximize the profits from their profession understand this and there have been several posts throughout this thread explaining that. Enchanters are better off financially because of this, and the economy as a whole is better off because people have more access to enchants in general due to there being more mats available. Its good for everyone.

    And while I'm sure there people who charged to DE items in dungeons at the end, in my experience it was way more common for the enchanter to offer to DE for free prior to this change.

    The rest of your post doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Enchanting provides the same raid benefit as most professions. Most professions don't have epics they get to start the expansion - except for the BoE stuff that anyone can make. Only Alchemy with their trinkets and Eng with the helms have epics that only they can make for themselves from what I can recall.

    Also, claiming that only people with enchanting can talk about enchanting and no one else's opinion counts is asinine. Everyone who plays the game can have an opinion on things which affect that game, and if you cannot be open-minded then perhaps you shouldn't come to a discussion forum.
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  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilderness View Post
    And while I'm sure there people who charged to DE items in dungeons at the end, in my experience it was way more common for the enchanter to offer to DE for free prior to this change.
    Sure, even I did this, but I never did BoEs for free.

  5. #565
    Ok, at this point I have to admit that you might be trolling. If you are, well done. If not... wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They still had a monopoly on the glyph market and on the ink market because they are the sole producers, so no I'm not wrong unless you turn a blind eye to anything but the faults of Enchanting. Enchanting has no restrictions? Enchanting has the exact same restrictions plus one. They can farm the items themselves, others can farm them for them, or they can by the items from the Auction House in order to disenchant.
    You are completely ignoring what I said. I will try to spell this out later.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Enchanting still has all of the downsides of not being a gathering professions but there is no gathering profession required for it. Disenchanting isn't a gathering profession any more then Milling, Prospecting, Smelting, or Sewing is.
    Disenchanting isn't a gathering profession. It's the advantages of a gathering profession rolled into a crafting profession. I'm glad we agree here, you've actually gotten something right.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So because there isn't a 100% drop rate it can't be farmed? That is stupid logic. Plenty of things in the game are farmed that don't have a 100% drop rate. Also if you know what items have a chance at dropping what materials it is very easy to predict what you will get from disenchanting something. So you can get what you need on the spot.
    That's not what I said. I said that we can't hand a couple of greens to an enchanter and say "I need this enchant", because there's no guarantee that the disenchanting will result in the correct materials, and no guarantee that the enchanter will provide the disenchantment for free.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    And there is every guarantee an enchanter will perform it for free on the spot if you are in the group with them. But do you expect a scribe to mill for free? A Jeweler to prospect for free? A tailor to sew for free? A miner to smelt for free? There is not guarantee they won't ask for a tip. Yet I don't see you asking to get a share of those.
    No, there's no guarantee. There was nothing forcing an enchanter to do this until the disenchant button, and on my server (and others) enchanters would routinely either decline to do it or would charge a fee for it. You are wrong. The others are different, because, as I've said, the other crafting professions don't have to rely on others or a second profession to get their materials. They don't have a monopoly on the production of their goods from beginning to end like Enchanting does. You keep denying this fact through weird arguments that make no sense, which I will make one last attempt to make you understand below. Tailoring is the only other exception to this, and it differs from enchanting in the fact that everyone gets cloth, and no one has to have a profession or even a tailor in their group to get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So scribes don't have a monopoly over inks? Who else can obtain and sell inks? Enchanters need something to get items as well but it isn't a profession. They need to kill a mob that has a chance at dropping an item. Which anyone can do so there isn't an enchanting gathering profession because everyone can gather for enchanters.
    This is ridiculous. Ok, I will make one last attempt to make you understand this, using very simple statements. If you can't agree to the FACTS that I am going to list now, there is no point in continuing this conversation, because you are either incapable of understanding or incapable of having an intellectually honest, logical conversation about it. Let's start with the very basics, ok?

    Fact number 1: Inscription requires Herbalism in order to level up and make glyphs.
    Fact number 2: Blacksmithing require Mining in order to level up and make items.
    Fact number 3: Alchemy requires Herbalism in order to level up and make potions, elixirs and flasks.
    Fact number 4: Leatherworking requires skinning in order to level up and make items.
    Fact number 5: Engineering requires Mining (and other professions) in order to level up and make items.
    Fact number 6: Jewelcrafting requires Mining in order to level up and cut gems.
    Fact number 7: Tailoring DOES NOT require any other profession to level up and make items. This one is arguable, because a majority of the higher level patterns actually require Enchanting materials to make... so this one could be debated.
    Fact number 8: Enchanting DOES NOT require any other profession to level up and make items.

    Are you going to continue to deny any of these facts?

  6. #566
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    That's not what I said. I said that we can't hand a couple of greens to an enchanter and say "I need this enchant", because there's no guarantee that the disenchanting will result in the correct materials, and no guarantee that the enchanter will provide the disenchantment for free.
    You can do that because certain types of items have a higher chance to produce a certain type of mat. But people did this all the time for enchanting and do it all the time for jewel crafting. The hand the jeweler a stack of ore in order to get X gem so they can get it cut. There is no guarantee that anyone will provide their trade skill for free so it is an irrelevant requirement.


    They don't have a monopoly on the production of their goods from beginning to end like Enchanting does. You keep denying this fact through weird arguments that make no sense, which I will make one last attempt to make you understand below. Tailoring is the only other exception to this, and it differs from enchanting in the fact that everyone gets cloth, and no one has to have a profession or even a tailor in their group to get it.
    Again someone with a double standard. Tailor and Enchanting are exact alike yet you treat them differently. Everyone has a chance at looting weapons and armor just like they have a chance at looting cloth. No one has to have an enchanter in their group to get weapons or armor to drop. You need an enchanter to get dusts shards and crystals. Just like you need a Tailor to get bolts, a Jeweler to get gems, a scribe to gems, and a miner to get bars.



    Quote Originally Posted by FalinMor View Post
    Are you going to continue to deny any of these facts?
    I have never said anything opposite of that. However just because there is no profession doesn't change a thing for Tailoring and Enchanting. Why? Because anyone in the game can gather for those professions and people with those professions have to compete against every one else for cloth (tailoring) and Items (Enchanting). They are worse off then if they had an actual profession tied to them.
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  7. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalinMor View Post
    Ok, at this point I have to admit that you might be trolling. If you are, well done. If not... wow.



    You are completely ignoring what I said. I will try to spell this out later.



    Disenchanting isn't a gathering profession. It's the advantages of a gathering profession rolled into a crafting profession. I'm glad we agree here, you've actually gotten something right.



    That's not what I said. I said that we can't hand a couple of greens to an enchanter and say "I need this enchant", because there's no guarantee that the disenchanting will result in the correct materials, and no guarantee that the enchanter will provide the disenchantment for free.



    No, there's no guarantee. There was nothing forcing an enchanter to do this until the disenchant button, and on my server (and others) enchanters would routinely either decline to do it or would charge a fee for it. You are wrong. The others are different, because, as I've said, the other crafting professions don't have to rely on others or a second profession to get their materials. They don't have a monopoly on the production of their goods from beginning to end like Enchanting does. You keep denying this fact through weird arguments that make no sense, which I will make one last attempt to make you understand below. Tailoring is the only other exception to this, and it differs from enchanting in the fact that everyone gets cloth, and no one has to have a profession or even a tailor in their group to get it.



    This is ridiculous. Ok, I will make one last attempt to make you understand this, using very simple statements. If you can't agree to the FACTS that I am going to list now, there is no point in continuing this conversation, because you are either incapable of understanding or incapable of having an intellectually honest, logical conversation about it. Let's start with the very basics, ok?

    Fact number 1: Inscription requires Herbalism in order to level up and make glyphs.
    Fact number 2: Blacksmithing require Mining in order to level up and make items.
    Fact number 3: Alchemy requires Herbalism in order to level up and make potions, elixirs and flasks.
    Fact number 4: Leatherworking requires skinning in order to level up and make items.
    Fact number 5: Engineering requires Mining (and other professions) in order to level up and make items.
    Fact number 6: Jewelcrafting requires Mining in order to level up and cut gems.
    Fact number 7: Tailoring DOES NOT require any other profession to level up and make items. This one is arguable, because a majority of the higher level patterns actually require Enchanting materials to make... so this one could be debated.
    Fact number 8: Enchanting DOES NOT require any other profession to level up and make items.

    Are you going to continue to deny any of these facts?
    About Tailoring; You're right that it's arguable. Initially I thought there was a CD on creating Dreamcloth but I was corrected and as such that's no longer a viable excuse for how their profession works. Not only do tailors not need a gathering professions, they also have a higher chance at looting cloth or looting more of it than non tailors.

    That said, I'll still argue that in the long run, Enchanting is way more profitable than Tailoring gold wise. I make about 1500g per day just putting up a Landslide enchant. I could make even more, if I could be bothered farming the AH for more mats or grind them myself. So when looking at the overall benefit to both professions, I still think that Enchanting comes out as the winner.

    Which is why, I don't really mind the DE button. It's so much easier with that button. And again, if you don't want to share, you should go with a guild group or a group of friends. That way at least the mats would be kept within a smaller circle of people you know and not be "handed out" to random people. And even with the DE button, I don't really think Enchanters are losing that much gold. Before the DE button, you'd just get a friend with Enchanting to DE all your crap for you for free. And what is the big difference between the greed and the DE button, when everyone can just have a friend or guildie DE the stuff for them anyways?

    The only thing that DE button does, is making it easier on everyone imo. And the trade off is, that Enchanters don't need a gathering profession to DE. Do you realize how annoying it is to level LW without Skinning? I have to pay for all the mats come MoP, since Skinning isn't really the ideal raiding profession and no, I didn't bother levelling an alt to get Skinning. My alts have different professions that requires either Herbalism or Mining and I cbf having one alt with only gathering professions tbh.

    Again, I really don't think Enchanters are the ones to be complaining about, how their profession works.

  8. #568
    Love how 99% of replies are people saying don't be selfish.

    I don't see any of those miners, skinners or herbers stopping everyone at the end of the dungeon and going "Ok guys, lets share out these materials".

    Nope, never seen that.

  9. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekovivie View Post
    Love how 99% of replies are people saying don't be selfish.

    I don't see any of those miners, skinners or herbers stopping everyone at the end of the dungeon and going "Ok guys, lets share out these materials".

    Nope, never seen that.
    Yeah .

    Disenchant options should be avaible only to enchanters.. but thats quite a known issue that almost every fair player agree with.

    The ones who dont .. are the selfish lazy ones .

    But blizz doesnt have plans to change it so .. i guess we should just stuck with it .. or need on everything and disenchant by yourself .. ihihih .

  10. #570
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    I honestly don't have a problem with the DE button, before it was implemented I would spend a lot of time DE'ing players loot. I don't get why the other professions that have gathering components attached to them are free from such biases though. Considering that I don't have a skinner, miner or herbalist between my characters, I would love to be able to mooch off those professions during dungeon runs.

    Though; if Blizzards intent became to share all professions in such a matter, I see no reason why they should stand by this archaic design choice. Let every player learn all gathering professions without losing crafting ones. I've actually been an advocate of that for some time, since the gathering professions tend to have really stupid profession buffs. Get rid of the buffs, have them not take profession slots, and everyone would be happy.

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    Yeah .

    Disenchant options should be avaible only to enchanters.. but thats quite a known issue that almost every fair player agree with.

    The ones who dont .. are the selfish lazy ones .

    But blizz doesnt have plans to change it so .. i guess we should just stuck with it .. or need on everything and disenchant by yourself .. ihihih .
    I am an enchanter and dont agree with you. I am also very rich from enchanting as I have said before. The Enchanters who want the D/E button removed are the ones who dont understand how you use there profession.

  12. #572
    The DE button is just a time saver for players and doesn't hurt the enchanter in the group in any way shape or form, nor does it decrease the mats the enchanter wins, as if things weren't being DE rolled, they would be greed rolled. The benefit is that it saves the trouble of having to roll off for shards at the end of a run, and eliminates the likelihood in LFD that an enchanter would just take all the shards from gear dropped by bosses a whole group put the effort in to killing. I have enchanters and I think that those complaining about this just need to chill out.

    All that said, I would support a 20% chance for enchanters to duplicate the enchanting mats from any DE in LFR or LFD for their own use. My chanter DE's a Maelstrom Crystal for player x, I have a 20% chance to also receive a crystal.

  13. #573
    Blademaster Rankalee's Avatar
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    I believe the main reason we're "forced" to share in a party situation, is because everyone in the group had a part in killing whatever creature it was that dropped the item. Regardless of if they clicked greed and won or disenchant and won makes no difference.

  14. #574
    The disenchant button is for everyone. Deal with it.

    I don't mind people making use of my disenchanting skills in raids/dungeons. The person was going to win it anyway, so if I can give the person enchanting materials instead of vendor fodder if he/she wants, then I'm happy to help.

    Don't be so goddam selfish.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekovivie View Post
    Love how 99% of replies are people saying don't be selfish.

    I don't see any of those miners, skinners or herbers stopping everyone at the end of the dungeon and going "Ok guys, lets share out these materials".

    Nope, never seen that.
    I share those on mine, in applicable dungeons, and when the people with me want.

    Care to try again, dear?
    Last edited by BatteredRose; 2012-07-23 at 10:45 PM.
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  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekovivie View Post
    I don't see any of those miners, skinners or herbers stopping everyone at the end of the dungeon and going "Ok guys, lets share out these materials".
    There's no more herb or mine nodes in new instances.

    Pointless thread is pointless.

  16. #576
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    There's no more herb or mine nodes in new instances.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74517#m...npc:0-2+8-11+1 indicates otherwise.
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  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by frengo123 View Post
    Enchanting isn't the best raiding ability,
    Say what? I dare you to raid without any enchants on your gear. C'mon, I double dare you

  18. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethox View Post
    Say what? I dare you to raid without any enchants on your gear. C'mon, I double dare you
    I dare you to raid without gems, flasks, glyphs. Not sure of your point.

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    Yes, after all to do the disenchant they have to ...... wait.... they have to do Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Give them a roll bonus that equals what they had to do for the item to be disenchanted. A big, fat, round 0.

    I have 2 max enchanters btw, 1 on each account and have never quite seen why enchanters weep and wail over this
    You mean, like rogues unlocking boxes? Or were you referring to the tens of thousands of golds used to level enchanting to Maxed to be able to disenchant those cata epics into maelstrom crystals? What? Did you think dusts and shards just form on their own? How many lock boxes do rogues (for example) have to destroy to gain levels to be able to unlock higher level lock boxes. OH RIGHT... NONE!!!

    So then what happens? These items go in the AH for many times the vendor value of the item disenchanted, to be purchased by enchanters or people looking for enchants, the lions share going to the person that did S*A to level enchanting, while the enchanter gets a "tip". And God forbid the enchanter charge a FEE!!!!! It is paramount to being a pedophile to ask an actual fee for your profession! Try that at a restaurant, order a meal, and just tip the waiter... see where that lands you.

  20. #580
    Hey, they should have an option so that when a lockbox drops and a rogue is in the group, you can click "Unlock" to get the item unlocked!

    Now rogues too can lose a chance to make money opening lockboxes!

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