Thread: monks fun?

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  1. #1

    monks fun?

    I'd like to know if monks are currently fun. I understand that it is personal opinion, so I will tell you what i define as fun

    - are the 3 specs viable?
    - How is windwalker in PvP? is it more a dk 3 button smash your face on keyboard or is it more with awesome different talents and alot of things to do with a good chunk of mobility, damage and survivability?
    - Is it a cooldown dependant class? (hate those)
    - and the most important: Is there always something to press? ( for example rogues, ferals have to wait ages to get energy etc ).

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightstalkerr View Post
    I'd like to know if monks are currently fun. I understand that it is personal opinion
    You said it there

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by nightstalkerr View Post
    is it more a dk 3 button smash your face on keyboard
    Arent we past that yet ?

    On topic: I dont know i dont have beta, but in videos they look liek fun

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by nightstalkerr View Post
    - and the most important: Is there always something to press? ( for example rogues, ferals have to wait ages to get energy etc ).
    Well the tanking and dps part of monk is using energy, so i guess there would be some waiting on something to press from time to time.
    but im not in the beta, but i've read alot about monk and dno they r buffing n nerfing energy regen all the time. but im hoping it will be something to press all the time

  5. #5
    Personally I love it, No reason not to give it a go.

  6. #6
    Mistweaver is fun, and a little broken (at lower levels at least). Personally, i dont find the 'energy' specs very fun.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nightstalkerr View Post
    I'd like to know if monks are currently fun. I understand that it is personal opinion, so I will tell you what i define as fun

    - are the 3 specs viable?
    - How is windwalker in PvP? is it more a dk 3 button smash your face on keyboard or is it more with awesome different talents and alot of things to do with a good chunk of mobility, damage and survivability?
    - Is it a cooldown dependant class? (hate those)
    - and the most important: Is there always something to press? ( for example rogues, ferals have to wait ages to get energy etc ).

    Thanks in advance
    There was another thread asking the same thing, and it got locked because the definition of "fun" is always subjective. If it wasn't for the list, I'm sure it would of had the same fate. Now, I will say 1st that I am not in the beta, but I will answer what I can:

    • For PvE, It should be in a similar place as paladins, being that there's 1 tank, healer, and dps role for them. Blizzard is working on all 34 specializations to be viable, and with the new talent system, it should be easier for them to balance each specialization separately. Every class specialization will have their strengths and weaknesses. But really it's always up to the raid leaders to decide if a monk is in, whether or not it can actually do the job, and regardless of the player's skill.

      1. Windwalker will be similar to subtlety rogue and feral druid, being that they are not doing 100% damage if they can't attack the target's back (Nefarian, Ultraxion, etc.) but being that it's a 20% increase for just 1 attack, it won't be a big impact on dps except for those that worship the dps meters with all of their soul. Blizzard is making it less of an issue for rogues and feral druids as well, but I personally hate having to attack the back for full dps.
      2. Brewmaster looks to be a good all around tank, the one thing that concerning is that it will be the 1st tank to not have high armor, but a unique damage reduction mechanic. It's unexplored, so it's going to take a lot of use to see its weaknesses, but 1 thing to notice is without Purifying Brew at Lv. 75, you're taking all of the damage sooner or later, so it's a little worrying for tanking below 75.
      3. Mistweaver's healing is really strong right now, it will probably go down. For dungeons and 10-man raids, definately good, but it gets tricky to heal more than 10 members in a 25 man raid. The smart healing from attacks hopefully will do the job of healing who needs it, hopefully... The main problem is the healing itself, there's nothing else to it. It will have a similar problem as a restoration druid, where if there are times where healing is unaffective (think of Loatheb from Naxxramas) there's not much that they can do.

    • Windwalker PvP looks to be fun, it has a good number of abilities, whether it's too few or too many, that's up to your opinion in the end. Touch of Karma is a physical debuff, so it will be hard to remove and whether they attack the monk or not, it's avoiding damage either way. Roll and Flying Serpent Kick will be great mobility, but without targeting, it will take practice to get used to it and have it effective. The same for Spinning Fire Blossom if you choose to keep it unglyphed. Not to mention a good selection of CC. There's a video of Swifty dueling a Windwalker Monk in an earlier build, the monk was in PvE gear and did not use all of abilities to the fullest, but it does give an idea of what a Windwalker can do.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SBQZ...ailpage#t=403s

    • Cooldown dependent? Not really. It does have some nice not-so-long cooldown abilities, but it's mostly up to the energy/mana and chi.

    • Blizzard's design is about having some downtime no matter what, so there will not be any class that's always pushing buttons, always pushing buttons means that when you have to stop, you're doing worse that those that don't need to keep pushing buttons, no chance of that design ever coming again. But with the hectic times in both PvE and PvP, you're gonna want times where you're not purposely trying to cramp your fingers to assess the situation and adjust accordingly. If you hate Rogue's and Feral Druid's dependency on energy, then monk isn't going to be much different. Energy regeneration for Rogue and Druid is 10 energy per second, monk is 8 energy per second for Windwalker and 10.4 for Brewmaster, but chi abilities do not use energy, so you're be alternating between the 2, similar to death knights. The exception though is at Lv. 72, Brewmaster gets Brewmaster Training, which will make Tiger Palm free, so that's spammable if that takes your fancy.

    The rest is up to your opinion, desire and dedication to the class. I say give it a shot, you may like it, you may not.

  8. #8
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    That's a pretty nice breakdown Zorigan wtb 'like' button...

    As for your point on Brewmasters, I still think they need to change Mastery slightly. Given how we can already reach upwards of 70% transfer without Mastery, and how low the transfer from mastery is (0.2% per point), I would really like it if they made it something like 'reduces the damage you take from Stagger by 1.5%' Just to make Mastery a little more attractive, and make Stagger something other than 'wait for medium stagger, PB, repeat'
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  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorigan View Post


    1) Windwalker will be similar to subtlety rogue and feral druid, being that they are not doing 100% damage if they can't attack the target's back (Nefarian, Ultraxion, etc.) but being that it's a 20% increase for just 1 attack, it won't be a big impact on dps except for those that worship the dps meters with all of their soul. Blizzard is making it less of an issue for rogues and feral druids as well, but I personally hate having to attack the back for full dps.

    2)Brewmaster looks to be a good all around tank, the one thing that concerning is that it will be the 1st tank to not have high armor, but a unique damage reduction mechanic. It's unexplored, so it's going to take a lot of use to see its weaknesses, but 1 thing to notice is without Purifying Brew at Lv. 75, you're taking all of the damage sooner or later, so it's a little worrying for tanking below 75.

    3)Mistweaver's healing is really strong right now, it will probably go down. For dungeons and 10-man raids, definately good, but it gets tricky to heal more than 10 members in a 25 man raid. The smart healing from attacks hopefully will do the job of healing who needs it, hopefully... The main problem is the healing itself, there's nothing else to it. It will have a similar problem as a restoration druid, where if there are times where healing is unaffective (think of Loatheb from Naxxramas) there's not much that they can do.[/LIST]

    1. The only similarity you'll see between rogues/cats and Windwalkers is with that Blackout Kick DoT. The playstyles are markedly different. And seeing as that Blizzard has stated that they are looking to address losing damage by having to attack from the front even with parry disabled (ie Ultra and that boss in Ulduar who I cannot for the life of me remember the name of right now), it should be sorted out.
    2. Brewmaster is an extremely durable tank. Even though the actual paperdoll armour count is lower, there's a blanket damage reduction slapped on top which brings them in line with other tanks. The shuffle mechanic is very powerful, due to it being a straight-up 50% reduction in damage from an incoming melee hit with the rest spread over as a DoT. Remember what kills tanks - spiky damage. Purifying Brew doesn't come in until later in levelling, but at that point there's still nothing dangerous enough to tax a healer covering a short-duration DoT rather than scrambling to patch up a tank who just almost got 2-shot. Guard is stupidly powerful. Gift of the Ox allows for amazing self-healing on a timer that suits yourself (ie you let the globes swarm you until you need a heal, then step into them). Expel Harm is an instant self-heal that's spammable at low health, which works as a better "oh shit" button than Last Stand type abilities, and scales ludicrously with Vengeance stacks.
    3. I'm doubtful we'll see another Loatheb-style fight, but just for completeness' sake - Zen Sphere and Enveloping Most are both HoTs and both tremendously useful in such cases. Tank's still doing OK when you can get your heal off? Zen Sphere for a long-duration HoT which both heals nicely AND damages nicely, which procs additional heals from Eminence. Tank about to cark it? Slap on an EM which is a short-duration high-cost HoT which heals quickly for a shitload. With regards to 25-man healing - only done 10-man, so can't comment, but remember that in 25-mans you're never raid healing on your own. Mistweavers are MAGNIFICENT at triage-style healing; that is, quickly throwing heals on the critical targets while keeping up their HoTs on others, while your compatriots blanket the raid with top-ups.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    1. The only similarity you'll see between rogues/cats and Windwalkers is with that Blackout Kick DoT. The playstyles are markedly different. And seeing as that Blizzard has stated that they are looking to address losing damage by having to attack from the front even with parry disabled (ie Ultra and that boss in Ulduar who I cannot for the life of me remember the name of right now), it should be sorted out.
    2. Brewmaster is an extremely durable tank. Even though the actual paperdoll armour count is lower, there's a blanket damage reduction slapped on top which brings them in line with other tanks. The shuffle mechanic is very powerful, due to it being a straight-up 50% reduction in damage from an incoming melee hit with the rest spread over as a DoT. Remember what kills tanks - spiky damage. Purifying Brew doesn't come in until later in levelling, but at that point there's still nothing dangerous enough to tax a healer covering a short-duration DoT rather than scrambling to patch up a tank who just almost got 2-shot. Guard is stupidly powerful. Gift of the Ox allows for amazing self-healing on a timer that suits yourself (ie you let the globes swarm you until you need a heal, then step into them). Expel Harm is an instant self-heal that's spammable at low health, which works as a better "oh shit" button than Last Stand type abilities, and scales ludicrously with Vengeance stacks.
    3. I'm doubtful we'll see another Loatheb-style fight, but just for completeness' sake - Zen Sphere and Enveloping Most are both HoTs and both tremendously useful in such cases. Tank's still doing OK when you can get your heal off? Zen Sphere for a long-duration HoT which both heals nicely AND damages nicely, which procs additional heals from Eminence. Tank about to cark it? Slap on an EM which is a short-duration high-cost HoT which heals quickly for a shitload. With regards to 25-man healing - only done 10-man, so can't comment, but remember that in 25-mans you're never raid healing on your own. Mistweavers are MAGNIFICENT at triage-style healing; that is, quickly throwing heals on the critical targets while keeping up their HoTs on others, while your compatriots blanket the raid with top-ups.
    For Windwalker, it goes without saying that the play styles are different, they are similar, not the same, being that (ignoring the openers) rogues and druids will use Backstab and Shred respectively, but have to switch up with Hemorrhage/Mangle for when they can't, and monks don't have to switch anything. I do like the convenience, but my dislike for attacking the back for full damage will never go away, and it's good news to hear that they'll address the damage in the front, but I wonder what it will be like attacking from the side?

    Brewmaster, I do agree, it's still a little troubling to see a counter for the DoT damage so far up in the levels, but I'll still give it a go to see how it is when it comes out on live.

    Mistweaver, hmmm yeah, I keep having this mindset about being able heal everyone in a raid, including 25-man, I really need to stop doing that because I tend to have a "Lone Wolf" style of doing things, you're right about not not needing to heal everyone and that they're not the only healer in the raid. Also I may be mistaken about this, being that I'm only stating from an observational point, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Loatheb's Necrotic Aura reduce all healing by 100%, including Healing over Time? I have heard that HoTs did work in the past on it, but it was fixed so that all healing within that 17 seconds do not work, but I guess that the point is moot, I do agree that the chances of a "Loatheb-style fight" occurring again is slim-to-none, at least 100% reduced healing anyway, I can see fractional healing mechanics possible, no problem. And don't get too comfortable with Zen Sphere, they already said that it's bugged and for testing purposes, not to use it for now. Also Blizzard already stated that all the level 30 talents are not intended to be used on a regular rotation, not that it's going to stop others (including myself, heh) from trying to make it so.

    Hmmm, on a side note, being that monk is a new class, maybe something on Loatheb might slip through the cracks. Grrrr, to not be on the beta to test these thing Infuriates Me! Somebody go out there and find those cracks for me. Pretty please?

  11. #11
    1.Make a Gnome Monk
    2.Scream like Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star
    3.Use Touch of Death and yell: You are already dead!
    4.????
    5.Platinum profit

  12. #12
    as a windwalker, i found i felt very exposed to ranged etc even with my mobility. i dunno maybe i just need to learn the class better:P. if you want a cool fast fighter though? roll one

  13. #13
    do monks have alot of downtime? (those moments when you have to wait for CDs and energy to come back)

  14. #14
    no downtime whatsoever while leveling. perhaps eating some food after a fluke death, though you might find that you have to eat a little in the late levels before 30

  15. #15
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    I think he means in battle Elf, not between fights.

    afaik it's spec dependant, due to free Tiger Palm, Brewmasters always have something they can hit. Windwalkers on the other hand don't have a 'free' move to spam, so they do have some downtime, however with Energy regen scaling from Haste, I'm guessing as you gear up this will get less and less.

    can't speak for Mistweaver, they're healers so they work differently.
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  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Windwalkers have a bit of downtime, but not huge gobfuls of dead space. A GCD or two here and there.

    Which is a GOOD thing. Not being GCD locked means there's room for Haste to actually be beneficial for WW's instead of a shit waste-stat.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Windwalkers have a bit of downtime, but not huge gobfuls of dead space. A GCD or two here and there.

    Which is a GOOD thing. Not being GCD locked means there's room for Haste to actually be beneficial for WW's instead of a shit waste-stat.
    mastery also helps fill GCDs as well whats nice

  18. #18
    Well monk probably won't be the class for me then. I get bored easily if I can't press something every GCD

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by nightstalkerr View Post
    Well monk probably won't be the class for me then. I get bored easily if I can't press something every GCD
    For spamming attacks any chance that you get, then a brewmaster monk or a protection warrior is just the thing, they have spam-able attacks that cost no resources, but as a dps class, no chance. As the game is, there never will be another dps class that will be able to spam attacks every global cooldown. The closest one to be able to do that is surprisingly Enhancement Shaman. Because they're cooldown based, they don't rely on mana entirely, and they have a good number of attacks to keep up a good pace, but there will always be gaps in a rotation for dps one way or another. Blizzard would have to redesign the whole game otherwise.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorigan View Post
    For spamming attacks any chance that you get, then a brewmaster monk or a protection warrior is just the thing, they have spam-able attacks that cost no resources, but as a dps class, no chance. As the game is, there never will be another dps class that will be able to spam attacks every global cooldown. The closest one to be able to do that is surprisingly Enhancement Shaman. Because they're cooldown based, they don't rely on mana entirely, and they have a good number of attacks to keep up a good pace, but there will always be gaps in a rotation for dps one way or another. Blizzard would have to redesign the whole game otherwise.
    Melee usually have gaps in their rotation. (Most)Ranged DPS can spam to their heart's content. They're not always attacks that they are spamming (like Life Tap), but nightstalkerr didn't say attacks, he just said "press something."

    Warlocks and SPriests have unlimited supplies of mana.
    Ele Shamans and Boomkins have great mana return abilities and should only ever OOM if they're aoeing heavily.
    Hunters have spammable Focus generating attacks that they can use while moving.
    Fire Mages can scorch until their keyboards break, not that they ever need to.
    Arcane Mages are the epitome of spamming. Just takes mana management.
    Frost mages ? No clue.

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