1. #1

    Brewmaster self healing = nuts

    [Edit] He just told me he was a brewmaster. Makes a bit more sense, but he could really dish out the hurt too. Still, healing through basically everything I could toss at him was wild.

    Just got finished a few duels on the newest beta patch and WOW, windwalker monks have some insane self heals going on. Basically impossible to whittle them down on my spriest, it was a stalemate for about 6 minutes before I finally gave up and just /sit.

    These guys self heal more than blood DKs used to, it's really quite a sight to see. Not sure if it will make it to live right now, but 1v1 they're basically unbeatable if they're any good at all.
    Last edited by mikeo007; 2012-07-13 at 11:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Not flaming, but if it was a stalemate for 6 minutes, this means that he wasn't able to kill you either. So was his DPS low or your self healing just as high?

    A stalemate is a stalemate because neither can kill the other, not just because one is OP.

    Just saying.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    Not flaming, but if it was a stalemate for 6 minutes, this means that he wasn't able to kill you either. So was his DPS low or your self healing just as high?

    A stalemate is a stalemate because neither can kill the other, not just because one is OP.

    Just saying.
    It's because he was a tank, and not very good at the class. His burst was decent though.
    I'm used to stalemates against healers because they should be able to self heal 1v1, but against a tank it seems a bit high, that's all.
    Also, spriests do have some insane self healing right now.
    Last edited by mikeo007; 2012-07-13 at 11:59 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    Also, spriests do have some insane self healing right now.
    Not really, the selfhealing from DP is the same as VE would've done.
    It's just that DP healing is a lot easier to notice than VE.

  5. #5
    A tank should not be able to outheal anyone, much less a caster. This sounds like a balance problem.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    A tank should not be able to outheal anyone, much less a caster. This sounds like a balance problem.
    Why not? They are tanks, it only stands to logic they should be able to survive a single caster.

  7. #7
    I'm sorry, that's not how this game has ever worked. Even blood DKs couldn't tank a single caster, and they were wildly OP in solo.

    A tank normally has tons of melee-specific and physical-specific mitigation. If one has enough self heals to deal with a full magic caster, then he'll simply be unkillable except by anything like himself, and melee will absolutely bounce off him. Tanks are intended to receive heals in a group situation, not simply run around blinking with a full-time Mario Starman active.

    A prot warrior can't solo a shadowpriest. Neither can a blood DK. A feral only has a shot because he's really a dps with a bunch of tank abilities he won't use, and guardians in mop sure won't be able to. A prot paladin definitely cannot. Most assuredly, a brewmaster should be standing shoulder to shoulder with this group of solid specs, not head and neck and shoulders above them.

  8. #8
    So a healer should be able to outlast any class 1v1 but a tank shouldn't? You're kidding right?

  9. #9
    Bet diffuse magic had a lot to do with it.

  10. #10
    I am Murloc! Ryngo Blackratchet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Danger Zone
    Posts
    5,328
    Very recently started messing with monk (Yeah, avoided it until now) and I can confirm basically everything said here. The healing is absolutely insane. I've been taking him back through old content as well and his solo capabilities, even n 378 premade gear, is far outlasting even a raid geared Blood DK.

    It basically seems like they're allowing the class to be powerful to draw initial attention to it, there's just no other reason for it. It's damage is incredible, it's heals are effortless, and the tanking is unstoppable. (Tanked a boss after everyone else bit the dust due to mechanics and there was absolutely no stopping me. Even went back at 85 and solo'd the better part of ZG last night just to prove my point.)

    The damage we take is on par with other classes and gear but goddamn that self healing is insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herradura View Post
    This game attracts some of the most greedy assholes I've ever seen. It's mind boggling. They don't owe you a thing! You are the one who decides to pay them! It's a fucking video game!

  11. #11
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    3,194
    According to Swifty's perfect condition "burst" kill video, the Brewmaster is the lowest "damage dealer" taking 17 seconds to do 100% -> 0% standing behind the target with no retaliation. So that doesn't really sound like high damage.

    Also, want to edit your title?
    I heal in the Arena
    Retired Moderator - Priest and PvP
    You can follow me @UltimaMMO_C

  12. #12
    Without vengeance stacking expel harm is gimped for brew masters.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Very recently started messing with monk (Yeah, avoided it until now) and I can confirm basically everything said here. The healing is absolutely insane. I've been taking him back through old content as well and his solo capabilities, even n 378 premade gear, is far outlasting even a raid geared Blood DK.

    It basically seems like they're allowing the class to be powerful to draw initial attention to it, there's just no other reason for it. It's damage is incredible, it's heals are effortless, and the tanking is unstoppable. (Tanked a boss after everyone else bit the dust due to mechanics and there was absolutely no stopping me. Even went back at 85 and solo'd the better part of ZG last night just to prove my point.)

    The damage we take is on par with other classes and gear but goddamn that self healing is insane.
    It's still in tuning. So far, most abilities are scaling extremely insanely well off the ap from Vengeance, but pretty poorly otherwise (aka Expel Harm/Health Globes are completely insane for Brewmasters, but not so much for Windwalkers.). In the future, at least for these specs, base values of Expel Harm will probably go up, while scaling will go down.

    I also wouldn't expect Desperate Mesures to last many more builds since it kinda throws the whole tank balance out of the window. It'll probably get the Will of the Necropolis treatment getting a cooldown or something.

    That being said, being a hybrid healer/tank, having great seal-healing is expected as well although it's indeed insane atm. I doubt the intent is to have as much self-healing as a Blood DK but it's probably something very close.

    edit: also, lolZenSpherelol, but everyone knows that.
    Last edited by Mionelol; 2012-07-17 at 05:04 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by thelordymir View Post
    So a healer should be able to outlast any class 1v1 but a tank shouldn't? You're kidding right?
    Healers are limited by mana, at the very least.

    And I'm definitely not kidding. If what OP is reporting is true, expect some wildly imba brewmasters on live, followed by very public outcry, and poorly thought out nerfs. If a tank can outheal a shadowpriest, then that's a real problem.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Ryngo Blackratchet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Danger Zone
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Healers are limited by mana, at the very least.

    And I'm definitely not kidding. If what OP is reporting is true, expect some wildly imba brewmasters on live, followed by very public outcry, and poorly thought out nerfs. If a tank can outheal a shadowpriest, then that's a real problem.
    As Mione pointed out, there will be balancing for sure. At the moment, the biggest tool for their surviving ridiculous encounters has been Zen Sphere. There's no way in hell that spell makes it to live as-is. It'd be fun, but it'll never happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herradura View Post
    This game attracts some of the most greedy assholes I've ever seen. It's mind boggling. They don't owe you a thing! You are the one who decides to pay them! It's a fucking video game!

  16. #16
    i dont see how it would be a problem if a healer/tank hybrid (or a tank that can heal itself) such as DK's and monks out heal a SHADOW priest. How could you have a problem with that?

    although DK's do have to hit the target to heal. (but they dont have a healing spec such as the mistweaver)

    DK tanks and brewmasters have their damage intake balanced with their healing in mind.


    like someone pointed out, base healing will go up and VENGEANCE (that's the AP increase tanks get when they take damage) scaling will go down.

    i could also foresee brewmasters equally DK's in healing; surpassing by far in an aoe situation.

  17. #17
    Sounds balanced to me if it was a stalemate.

  18. #18
    Zen Sphere, gotcha. Yea, GC just said that it's way overpowered and to not use it for feedback. Probably no concern here then.

  19. #19
    I am Murloc! Ryngo Blackratchet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Danger Zone
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Zen Sphere, gotcha. Yea, GC just said that it's way overpowered and to not use it for feedback. Probably no concern here then.
    Yeah, without the sphere in heroics, the self healing is good, but it's no where near OP or even near DKs earlier in last expansion. It was fun, but it left me feeling like I couldn't pull like a moron in the gear I was in without stressing the healer. In other words, mission accomplished, considering my gear was entry level and not enchanted.

    I don't worry too much about them for live. It's an incredibly fun spec and I'd hate to see it nerfed to a spec-changing extreme.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herradura View Post
    This game attracts some of the most greedy assholes I've ever seen. It's mind boggling. They don't owe you a thing! You are the one who decides to pay them! It's a fucking video game!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •