problem with elemental blast

[orderschvank]

not sure if this has been brought up before.

but the buff to your random stat, is static, it does not increase with your gear.

would this cause elemental blast to be worthless in the mid to late tiers of the expansion? where it would be much more beneficial to take the % based increase abilities.

[Radux]

It will always give a flat 5% (via ratings) of either Crit/Mastery/Haste. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Let's say you only have ~10% Crit or something (as Resto or Elemental) in T14 and are using EB. That means you're getting far less benefit than if you had a much higher % to your stats.

And I'm not quite sure what you mean by saying it would be useless? A huge damaging ability + increased stats (thus more throughput) could be considered useless?

[Socialhealer]

think he means it doesnt scale like stoneclaw never did.

16k absorb as you ding 85 with 90k hp, 16k absorb as you have 160k hp, so it gets worse as you gear up.

same as when you ding 90 5% stats maybe really good. but end tier 5% stats due to lack of scaling will not be nearly as good especially as your near 50% mastery 30% haste etc(as elemental).

[Newber]

The description in the patch notes says +3000 (mastery/haste/crit). It doesn't say 5%. The OP is going by the new patch notes, however inaccurate they may (or may not) be. If we are to go by the patch notes, then yes, it will not scale with gear and will become less desirable when item levels increase.

[Radux]

The description in the patch notes says +3000 (mastery/haste/crit). It doesn't say 5%. The OP is going by the new patch notes, however inaccurate they may (or may not) be. If we are to go by the patch notes, then yes, it will not scale with gear and will become less desirable when item levels increase.

It's been based off rating for quite a while. But the rating amount will always equal 5%. That's the point I was making.

Whether it 'scales' or not isn't nearly as big of an issue compared to something like SCT not scaling.
16k at 80 and 16k at 85 is a much bigger issue. It was a static value.

EB in MoP, it will give you X% increase to your dps/hps at T14 levels, and Y% increase to your dps/hps at T16. Whether that variable is larger or smaller between tiers is to be seen.

No matter what, though, it will be an icrease.

[Endus]

All that means is that the benefit from the ability is static. You'll still scale with gear, because you'll have ever increasing amounts of the base stat. What doing it like this means is that abilities don't get double benefit out of your gear.

It's like saying that T13 (H) gear is less of an upgrade from T13 than T11 (H) was from T11. It's the same static item level, meaning the same item budget, but the higher gear level means the relative boost is less. That doesn't mean you don't want to upgrade; the boost is still absolutely relevant.

[Socialhealer]

well thing is with random % increase is generally elemental has hit haste GCD issues in later tiers. so 5% haste/mastery in t7/8/9 or t11/12 would be great.

but by t10 or t13 5% haste could easily be near useless regarding lava bursts, and useless under haste cooldowns for lightning bolts. also going from 20-30% overload is better than 46-56 when comparing with +30% lb dmg.


but if EB is good for t14 1/2 of 15, and useless for 16(which i expect) that wouldn't be too bad.

I think OP is just trying to point out the issue that IF EB can compete early on, then with the lack of scaling in later tiers it will be junk and PE and UF will be the only choices as these will be far far superior as they scale with your gear better than a static 5%.

say t14 15% haste 10 mastery 15% crit +5% from EB = + 1/8th secondary stats
say t16 25% haste 20 mastery 20% crit +5% from EB = + 1/13th secondary stats, hope you get the idea why it wont be as good due to no scaling.

[Wataurenyew]

say t14 15% haste 10 mastery 15% crit +5% from EB = + 1/8th secondary stats
say t16 25% haste 20 mastery 20% crit +5% from EB = + 1/13th secondary stats, hope you get the idea why it wont be as good due to no scaling.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way.
Yes, the buff is static and the rating is devalued with more rating, however the buff translate to a 5% buff.
So in relation to your stats, then yes the rating isn't as good, but you are comparing the buff to the other talents not to the stats on your gear.

EB will always give a 5% buff to your spells and the damage of EB and those spells do scale.

Saying a 5% buff to your spells doesn't scale is like saying that the 30% buff to LB through UF doesn't scale since that 30% never changes.

So saying this another way. The rating doesn't scale, but the damage done by that extra 5% stats does scale.

[binkenstein]

Better way to look at it is to forget about the 5% thing, because it isn't. It's giving you additional rating in Crit/Haste/Mastery which is actually going to have an increasing value as your gear improves. This is because while you get diminishing return effects on adding additional percentage points into a percentage based stat, this is a perception based diminishing return, and there are positive feedback effects from all the other stats that increase the EP values of each stat.

eg: At 30% crit you can assume you'll get 1 + 0.3 = 1.3 times the damage of the average spell.
With 31% crit you get 1.31, an increase of 0.769%.
With 32% crit you get 1.32, an increase of 0.763% over 31%

However, this is looking at proportional damage increases, rather than flat damage increases. As soon as we say that each hit does 10,000 damage, we see that each 1% of crit increases the average damage by 100. If we add in other stats to make each spell hit more powerful, or hit more often, then the damage contribution from crit also goes up

Saying that Elemental Blast is "worth less" if it is providing 1/13th of the secondary stats rather than 1/8th is because you're looking at it proportionally, rather than the actual damage output, which is counter to how we evaluate gear using EP values. I can tell you that one point of Crit, Haste or Mastery rating is worth more to me at the end of Cataclysm than it was at the start, so I don't see how it will be any different for Mists.

[Deleted]

just want to ask about the delay between EB hitting the target and the instant setting of EB's random buff; Does this mean that a crit/mastery increase of 3000 will have an effect on the EB that caused it?

[Deleted]

just want to ask about the delay between EB hitting the target and the instant setting of EB's random buff; Does this mean that a crit/mastery increase of 3000 will have an effect on the EB that caused it?

Ratings/spell power etc are factored in when the spell is cast. No matter how you look at it, the buff will always be present after the spell has been cast, meaning the buff won't affect the EB itself.

[Deleted]

Ratings/spell power etc are factored in when the spell is cast. No matter how you look at it, the buff will always be present after the spell has been cast, meaning the buff won't affect the EB itself.

ahah, ty for that.

[whyabadi]

You need to factor in the scaling of EB itself compared to your filler Lightning Bolt.

[Teriz]

Someone on the Beta forums said that Elemental Blast has been taken off of Spiritual Insight. Is that true?

[stomination]

Yes it is true came with the last patch notes on front page.

[Deleted]

Yes it is true came with the last patch notes on front page.

False. 1) Datamined notes and never entirely accurate and 2) You need to actually pick Elemental Blast while in resto for it to even appear in Spiritual Insights Tooltip. Going on the front page tooltip alone isn't going to get you anywhere as that tooltip is the original one before any talents are picked. In game, if you pick EB while in resto, it still gets added to Spiritual Insight :-

[Management]

This is not really related to your question, but does MW affect EB? I mean, if I have 5 stacks MW can I instacast EB then? Elsewise it seems like it will be useless for enhancement shams.

[morphosys]

yes, with 5 stacks of MW you can pop an instant cast EB.

[Management]

yes, with 5 stacks of MW you can pop an instant cast EB.

Hmm, I wonder if this makes it worth taking... It would still need some testing to see which of the 90 talents is the best.

[morphosys]

Hmm, I wonder if this makes it worth taking... It would still need some testing to see which of the 90 talents is the best.

I took it on the beta, it hits pretty hard and at the moment is effected by UE. The only downside is the proc is random, and the CD is 12 seconds. other than that its a nice choice.