Ret changes

[Deleted]

Yeah.. who would ever want 5 Max Holy Power, several snares, CC on no Cooldown, more HP generators or an AoE Crowd control on a 3 minute CD at the cost of... absolutely nothing?

o_-

Just in case i was not clear enough, i was referring to the changes that went in this current test build. No where did i mention or comment on the "talents" that have been developed thus far.

[Deleted]

You're probably gonna want Selfless Healer in MoP for arenas, as three Judgments will make Flash of Light free, instant, and twice as strong when healing your partners. Stack strength, crit...And maybe haste after crit instead of mastery to increase HoPo generation for WoGs. Just a guess.

Ok mate well thanks alot really helped

[Reith]

You know, I have no idea what goes through the people's heads that determine class balancing for Retribution Paladins. They nerf Sacred Shield for Ret and Prot and give Repentance a 15 second cooldown which, pardon my language, makes no fucking sense whatsoever. Sacred Shield will be dispelled in a heartbeat every time it's put up and every Mage will be THANKING us for talenting into it. Never was going to use it in PVP and they just made it even worse.

Then you got Speed of Light at 45 seconds instead of 60, which is pretty obvious why, considering it's never going to be taken at 60 seconds - and they buff Sword of Light to make Ret heals a little less pitiful - too bad it's not enough when you consider how low they heal for in the first place. The only thing I can possibly think of, is that they're trading Crusader Strike damage for a little buff to Ret healing. Ret is not OP on the beta, not by a long shot. PvE suffering for PvP, neither of which Ret is dominating. It's not like Ret survivability is going to skyrocket with a 30% Word of Gimp and Flash of Limp buff.

Maybe they're being extremely careful, or maybe they didn't have time to implement more changes. Either of those seem the most plausible to me.

[Requital]

Our biggest issue is the same thing that has been our biggest issue since Cata came out.

Scaling with Spell Haste is absurd it was when it came out and it still is. We are the only melee class that does subpar DPS unless we have Shaman, Boomkin or S Priest around. It really isn't logical unless we bring the Haste with us, Think about those classes I listed imagine how pissed they would all be if they didn't have access to Haste except through another source. It seriously makes no sense at all it's something that has needed to be fixed for quite a while now and no other DPS spec suffers from such idiocy.

Something Blizzard could do which would help is give Sanctity of Battle an increased scale factor for Haste instead of making it scale from spell haste. This would give Haste on gear a much higher level of importance and it would help the class so we don't have to rely on someone else. I understand that they want Spell Haste and Melee Haste to be useful for classes but what they did to Ret was made it required to have 5% spell Haste but didn't give us access to it.

They could add spell haste to the spec as well I wouldn't be against that but I'm against needing Haste to be useful but not having access to the Haste.

[Deleted]

the 6% mana every 2 seconds was always active only got removed after a few patches from the tooltip and is now back. and yea imagine 15sec cooldown on sheep haha. numbers got nerfed for a few classes along the board, looks like they gonna balance them now. ret heals are still pitful shit

[Boogieknight]

You're going to be see a lot of number tweaking from here on out. If you think any of the changes are off base, I'm afraid you're going to have to offer a little more evidence to support your claim, or else this forum is going to be reduced to "don't nerf me, bro" posts.

Ret was doing too much damage. Prot's damage is fine even with the change, and to answer a related question, that is assuming spending some Holy Power on Word of Glory.

What exactly does he mean by "too much damage"?

[Deleted]

What exactly does he mean by "too much damage"?

woah. when did he post this? i wanna see the world he lives in where ret does "to much damage" while mages running around doing 100k + icelances

[Requital]

woah. when did he post this? i wanna see the world he lives in where ret does "to much damage" while mages running around doing 100k + icelances

He plays a Mage you will never see him admit that Mages are grossly broken.

[Deleted]

He plays a Mage you will never see him admit that Mages are grossly broken.

yea i know

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I still think they're crazy for thinking we do too much damage as Retribution(Needs a rename spec like Justice). Personally now it could be me but on Live I do high but... I seem to get shafted somewhat. I don't believe in the concept of Hybrad tax, seems very stupid and it seems to pushs egos on pure classes. Rant aside I think on live Ret's are a tad underpowered. Getting beat by *cough* Frost Death Knights and other again silly Hybrid concept classes is sad. Now if a rogue with the legendaries beat me in DPS.


I wouldn't care so much because the Legendaries are powerful in their own right. I have faith Blizzard will fix things but these nerfs aren't making me happy.

[Boogieknight]

woah. when did he post this? i wanna see the world he lives in where ret does "to much damage" while mages running around doing 100k + icelances

Here in the "Beta Class Balance Analysis" thread

[Reith]

He plays a Mage you will never see him admit that Mages are grossly broken.

We can't say for sure if it's GC himself, but there HAS to be some bias in the class balancing team when he openly acknowledges Subtlety Rogues are OP (and lets them run free for 4.3) but doesn't even acknowledge how Frost Mages are too good (except against Hunters, maybe). They ALWAYS compensate (or over-compensate) Frost Mage nerfs - this last patch is a shining example of that. They never really get nerfed. Like Takia said, would you ever see Polymorph getting a 15 second cooldown? Or even a 10 second cooldown? Never. Hell, I'd go so far as to say would you ever see Frost Mages get outright nerfed? Never.

Anyway, on-topic: Saying Ret does "too much damage" in the beta is a joke. Their idea of "too much damage" is, "leading the pack by a minimum of even a minuscule margin OR too close to the higher end of DPS, in single target under normal circumstances without interruption." That's their yard stick, from what I've seen in DS with the whole Gurthalak fiasco. Fine for Arms, not for Ret. Go figure.

[Boogieknight]

Anyway, on-topic: Saying Ret does "too much damage" in the beta is a joke. Their idea of "too much damage" is, "leading the pack by a minimum of even a minuscule margin OR too close to the higher end of DPS, in single target under normal circumstances without interruption." That's their yard stick, from what I've seen in DS with the whole Gurthalak fiasco. Fine for Arms, not for Ret. Go figure.

Anyone have beta access and can post on the beta forums? It might be worth asking for clarification on "too much damage" or at least what an appropriate damage is.

[Mormolyce]

You're talking about Beta damage? IT'S BETA. IT'S NOT BALANCED YET.

1. Why? Because of hybrid tax?

Hybrid tax? Wow, when was the last time you played the game?

---------- Post added 2012-07-19 at 05:20 AM ----------

We can't say for sure if it's GC himself, but there HAS to be some bias in the class balancing team when he openly acknowledges Subtlety Rogues are OP (and lets them run free for 4.3) but doesn't even acknowledge how Frost Mages are too good (except against Hunters, maybe). They ALWAYS compensate (or over-compensate) Frost Mage nerfs - this last patch is a shining example of that. They never really get nerfed. Like Takia said, would you ever see Polymorph getting a 15 second cooldown? Or even a 10 second cooldown? Never. Hell, I'd go so far as to say would you ever see Frost Mages get outright nerfed? Never.

They did in fact say that frost mages have too much control in PVP and their intention is to tone it down in MoP. We'll see :P

[Reith]

Anyone have beta access and can post on the beta forums? It might be worth asking for clarification on "too much damage" or at least what an appropriate damage is.

Every time anyone tries to ask honest questions like that, they get ignored. Blizzard will never publicly release what it deems is "appropriate damage" for Retribution Paladins - but history speaks for itself.

You're talking about Beta damage? IT'S BETA. IT'S NOT BALANCED YET.

That's what apologists said about Ret in Cataclysm Beta - and then Cataclysm was released and they shut their mouths.

They did in fact say that frost mages have too much control in PVP and their intention is to tone it down in MoP. We'll see :P

They used the term "overpowered" to describe Rogues, but did not use that term to describe Mages, even though it's appropriate. I also only saw two things they're losing overall, which is Improved Counterspell and then they have a choice to keep a vastly improved version of Ring of Frost or go for either of the other two which effectively replace Improved Cone of Cold. I could be wrong, though.

[Kelesti]

That's what apologists said about Ret in Cataclysm Beta - and then Cataclysm was released and they shut their mouths.

Actually, I thought they shifted to "resilience will fix it".

[Adominitis]

I hate Ghostcrawler....yea hi we're tweaking stuff....so Mages have a better chance at everything because after all i play a mage so ummm /winning

[Boogieknight]

Actually, I thought they shifted to "resilience will fix it".

I thought they shifted to "You're balanced around Inquisition and level 85, it'll get better."

[Vodalos]

Anyone have beta access and can post on the beta forums? It might be worth asking for clarification on "too much damage" or at least what an appropriate damage is.

By looking at history of ret Paladin when a Ret can do the same DPS a warrior do (with the exact same gear level and with appropriates reforges) then, Ret do too much damage. The good place of ret DPS is 10% less than a nobrain warrior with green stuff (even if the Ret has epic gear well enchanted, reforged and gemmed).

[Palatinus]

The old hybrid argument is a bit old now, ret is no longer more of a hybrid than the majority of the classes. Take locks for an example, they can tank and heal as much damage, if not more, than we can. There no advantage to plate anymore and when pure classes can out heal whats the point? Rogues probably out heal in the long run, and if they don't it's because you've done 0 damage compared to theirs.

Isn't the 'Mage' nerf an indirect buff? Sure swap burst is 'lowered', but at 3 stacks, wont frostbolt and ice lance do even more damage? I'm guessing this debuff won't be dispellable either? Could you imagine a damage increase being dispellable for mages!?

The cooldown on repentance really disappointed me, could understand and perhaps adjust to the un-needed damage nerfs, since hey...it's blizzard after all...but to put a cd on a cast time cc that is talent is just a step to far. If they don't do the same treatment to mages and locks this game will never be balanced. What about cyclone, has that ever needed a cooldown? Even when it was instant? If ret starts out the same way in mop as it did in cata, that might be it for me, the devs just can't balance the game anymore.

Too biased, one rule for one class, another rule for another class (normally mages and rogues). If they don't sort balance out soon, I think mop might lose out to gw2 a lot. The balance problems seem to be rolling over to pve now, maybe pvp has died too much for GC's Mage and they need to make sure where each class is in pve, I.e ret bottom half.