Q&A Insights about Deceptions Assassins and Operatives/Scoundrels design

[Deleted]

BobertCole: Could you elaborate please on what role you see deception Assassins playing? Are they close to operating in the way that was envisioned?

Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): First, as to whether or not they're operating close to what we envision, the answer is "depends who the operator is." From the videos, logs, and anecdotes players provide us, it's really very much the answer for all specs - some people "get it" and play it to its potential, and some people don't. Frequently, the ones who "don't" are hitting brick walls because their expectations for what a spec should be like or should be capable of are different than what the spec is designed for.

In the case of Deception Assassins, we see and hear about a lot of players expecting to go toe-to-toe with tough enemies. They expect that since they're a melee spec, they should have the survivability they need to withstand the frontlines. That's true for some melee specs, but that's not what Deception Assassins were designed for. Deception should epitomize "hit-and-run" and "lone wolf" gameplay. Obviously that's less the case in Operations boss encounters, but if this is a question of sustained DPS, the short answer is that they hit within the same 5% "grace window" targeted by every DPS spec in the game.

In solo and PvP environments, Deception is meant to be a high burst, high mobility, shutdown spec. When played properly, they provide some of the highest burst and highest pressure in the game. However, Deception is not a great partner. He can't take hits, his shutdown requires that he set the pace of the fight, and his escapes leave allies open and vulnerable to counterattacks. I say that, but I've seen players dash my expectations and turn Deception into a spectacular teammate. Unfortunately, I've seen many more players try to facetank and fail. Assassins have a great team support role - Darkness; they also have a great well-rounded, high utility role - Madness. We left Deception to take the opportunity to do something fun and very different, but that comes with the risk of missing player expectation. If you like Deception and you want to pull it off, my suggestion is that you pick your fights and plan ahead, but I'd also warn that Deception is a spec of extremes - I would not describe it as "well-rounded."

Coldin: Every class who fights primarily in melee range (Assassins, Warriors, Powertechs) gets some kind of ability they can use to close the distance outside of 30 meters. That is except for Operatives. What's the reasoning behind the Operative's apparent lack of ability to quickly get within range to deal their most powerful attacks?

Austin: In PvP, the short answer is a combination of stealth (including Cloaking Screen), the ability to self-cleanse, and the ability to self-heal. Operatives also benefit from a good deal of control with snares, Sleep Dart, Debilitate, and Flash Bang, with additional roots, snares, and knockdowns available in skill trees. However, those things don't offer much benefit in boss fights that demand a high level of mobility and target switching. The question for us becomes one of how to best introduce a "fix" for a few encounters without dramatically impacting gameplay in other game modes or environments. That's a much longer answer, and something of an ongoing discussion. High mobility fights and encounters with a lot of target switching are proving to be fun ways for our Operations designers to challenge players. So with that theme keeping up, this issue is quickly floating to the top of our priority list.

Well, at last a Q&A with some decent information. I am playing a Scoundrel Scrapper right now and I have to say that finally I can see some hope in the horizon. Could it mean that they would add a cap closer with Makeb and the new abilities with the level cap being increased? As far as the Deceptions Assassins, I already knew that and I have to say that the spec is really fun for un-rated, solo PvP

[Forsedar]

My comment on Deception Assassins:

Bioware states they play within the 5% margin when in the hands of a skilled player. That being said, one my guildmates constantly complains about Assassin DPS... but he is playing it correctly. This is from a PvE perspective, so with that in mind, I believe that the fights are not designed with Deception playstyle in mind. Its obvious that most boss encounters throughout every MMO is extremely ranged friendly, but this current tier of content was not designed with Melee in mind.

Zorn and Toth: Horrible for melee.
Firebrand and Stormcaller: Decent for melee.
Colonel Vorgath: Not so great for melee.
Kephess: Not so great for melee.

All fights require a ton of movement, and Deception has no way to close the gaps when movement is in high demand. Not only that, they are a burstier spec which isn't taken kindly in a raid environment. I really hope for the sake of the spec that it becomes more PvE friendly, or at least give a viable spec for PvE. Madness was great for EV, but with times changing, that is no longer the case.

All that aside, it still seems like Bioware is always open to suggestions and is listening to the playerbase/statistics in order to base their judgements off of. I'm glad they aren't nerfing a class due to PvE or PvP balances.

[Ap0calypse]

Not to knock the spec/class or anything, but after playing WoW and a Ret Paladin no less, I was thinking of going Assassin at the start because of how they were supposed to be similar. However, when I saw that Sith Warriors got a snare and a leap to get into combat on a short cooldown, and remembering how bad Rets mobility was at getting back to the target, I quickly decided against it. I haven't looked back since, and I rarely if ever see any dps Assassins in FP's or Ops. Oh and I'm a Juggernaut dps, and yet I don't seem to ever have problems getting into any groups.

I recently levelled a Shadow, and got to 25 and stopped as the class story bored the crap out of me, but I also didn't get on with how squishy the class was compared to my Juggernaut. I did better on my Sorceror, and I think most people know how low the survivability is on that class!

[RoninaThorstone]

Not to knock the spec/class or anything, but after playing WoW and a Ret Paladin no less, I was thinking of going Assassin at the start because of how they were supposed to be similar. However, when I saw that Sith Warriors got a snare and a leap to get into combat on a short cooldown, and remembering how bad Rets mobility was at getting back to the target, I quickly decided against it. I haven't looked back since, and I rarely if ever see any dps Assassins in FP's or Ops. Oh and I'm a Juggernaut dps, and yet I don't seem to ever have problems getting into any groups.

I recently levelled a Shadow, and got to 25 and stopped as the class story bored the crap out of me, but I also didn't get on with how squishy the class was compared to my Juggernaut. I did better on my Sorceror, and I think most people know how low the survivability is on that class!

My sage is now 47, should be 50 the second I get some time to play.

And like...

Sorc = low survivability? Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Also,

Its good to see they aren't willing to budge *much* on this.

A well played sin is devastating.

The trick is to engage AFTER the fight starts and go for the healer/ranged with a cast time in the back. Shred them in a few seconds while shutting down every single cast. Their front line will crumb without heals/suppressive fire.

Same could be said of concealment but at the moment they feel a little evelynn (6 months ago).

People just need to not treat an assassin like a warrior and they will do fine.

[Redblade]

The bigger issue I found with playing as deception in PvP was the horrible server side sync and how bad your stealth is, I had guild mates on the opposite team see me through stealth when being at least 10-15 meters away on my screen and less than 5 meters on theirs. For PvE it was alright but resource generation just isn't there to support the sustained DPS.

That and the fact that Darkness beat Deception hands down in survivability, DPS and utility back when I last played, this might have been fixed lately though as it was way OP build for PvP.

[RoninaThorstone]

The bigger issue I found with playing as deception in PvP was the horrible server side sync and how bad your stealth is, I had guild mates on the opposite team see me through stealth when being at least 10-15 meters away on my screen and less than 5 meters on theirs. For PvE it was alright but resource generation just isn't there to support the sustained DPS.

That and the fact that Darkness beat Deception hands down in survivability, DPS and utility back when I last played, this might have been fixed lately though as it was way OP build for PvP.

You are not behind your target!
You are not behind your target!
You are not behind your target!