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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    There was a time when Paladins had a +1 Holy Power proc (original Divine Purpose) and pardon my lack of being able to put this any other way, but it was QQ'd out of existence. Because Paladins felt that they were "wasting" resources, not because of how the spec as a whole was a glowing mobile casino.
    That was wasted resources they couldn't control, not wasted resources they could control. Big difference.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    The way I look at it, it's more of a short window burst passive. For example... Store up 5HP going into a Tendon on Spine HC, TV, CS, TV, Judge, Exo, CS, TV, ect

    It also increases flexibility during Zealotry (That does still exist, right?)
    Its PvE uses are limited, but its PvP uses are amazing.
    Zealotry now exists in the new and improved form as the lvl75 talent Holy Avenger. It's better in that any HoPo generator automatically gives three so that we really can get off a TV every other global.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Elovan View Post
    I wouldn't really consider it a safety net, the rotation barely changes from what it is on live, ret paladin's system of prioritizing generators over finishers while below cap is just a different way of doing a combo point system. The biggest reason generators are prioritized over finishers for ret is because ret's resource generating abilities are cooldowns, unlike other resource generators. This makes it imperative that in order to get as much Holy Power as possible we want to avoid delaying a generator, since that will mean less Holy Power through the fight overall and less TV's.

    Being able to store 5 Holy Power instead of 3 doesn't take away the ability to lose resources, it just moves the cap up. Since our generators are prioritized before our finishers, instead of fluctuating between 0 and 3 Holy Power, we now fluctuate between 2 and 5 Holy Power. Having those 2 extra Holy Power really doesn't dumb down the rotation, and instead gives us more fluidity since it gives us more flexibility on refreshing Inquisition or tossing out an emergency heal through WoG, etc.
    I think what Elovan has said here has to be considered greatly when thinking about this. All of our generators are cooldown based. J, CS, Exo, HoW all of them have at lest a 4.5s CD (correct me if CS is lower I havent been on beta in a long long time and can't remember) with our middle generators at 6s and one at 15s with a chance to reset it's CD. Haste will lower some of these, but we're still limited by a system that requires our generating abilities to have a cooldown.

    This system also feels, to me, like it's a higher skillcap than our previous system.

  4. #24
    I realize the OP was likely mostly about retribution, but I'd imagine the increase to 5 max holy power is partially for protection, and the way they're attempting to make active mitigation work. Druid and warrior tanks can pool rage, death knight tanks can pool runes and potentially blood tap charges. Barely know anything about monks, forgive me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Hunters, Rogues, Warriors, Enhancement Shaman, Elemental Shaman, Feral Druids, Balance Druids, Affliction Warlocks, Demonology Warlocks, Destruction Warlocks... no one gets to store extra resources.
    Am I wrong in thinking burning embers (destruction warlock) can be stored? The rage (warrior), focus (hunter), and energy (rogue, feral druid) resources can kind of be stored, as well. Also the aforementioned combo points (rogue) with the Anticipation talent. Not really saying it's entirely a good idea, there are penalties that are absent for paladins, but it can be done.
    Last edited by Elathi; 2012-07-17 at 12:25 AM.

  5. #25
    Why complain about something that can in no way be interpreted as a nerf? I definitely appreciate the flexibility it allows. I hate being forced to use a finisher when it would make more sense to use it a global or two later.

  6. #26
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    This change is definitely about resource pooling, which is vital to prot in mop, rather than aiming to lower the amount of wasted holy power to make paladins easier. Ret's patchwerk dps is going to be based around the 5 hp cap just the same as it currently would be around a reasonable amount of holy power waste or not hitting cooldown based abilities immediately as the cooldown ends, which means no skillcap change. I honestly feel this will raise the skill cap because of the need to find the perfect balance of using all your abilities as much as possible while also pooling for swap add burns and such.

    As for your specific example of maelstrom weapon, ask Endus about just how many you gain by moving that to the top of the priority and using them immediately, and as such not wasting stacks. This is a non-issue.

    None of this is to suggest that a 5 hp cap is not going to result in ret wasting less theoretical damage due to capping, because it will since during general dps you'll hit tv the moment you have an open gcd and 3+ hp. It is just that it is not a significant difference unless ret ends up being far more gcd limited than I have seen.
    Last edited by Chimaera; 2012-07-17 at 06:43 AM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzhoof View Post
    Why complain about something that can in no way be interpreted as a nerf? I definitely appreciate the flexibility it allows. I hate being forced to use a finisher when it would make more sense to use it a global or two later.
    more like why complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    It felt like I was losing damage

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    So, I can't say I speak for everyone, and I'm definitely way late to the party, but messing around with beta (without my clcret), I came to a weird sort of groove on target dummies.

    It felt like I was losing damage if I prioritized Finishing Moves over actual generators, unless I was at risk of capping. Am I supposed to be pooling them for empty globals, rather than burning them off at 3? It seems so unintuitive.
    You are indeed losing damage while doing that. The best assumption at this point from but not counting the most recent changes would be this.

    Inq > 5HP TV > Exo > HoW > CS > Judge > 3-4HP TV

    It's always best to keep generating and using TV @ 5HP. Before people come flying in with Exo and HoW yada yada under the current beta builds both Exocism and Hammer of Wrath build Holy Power even if you miss so that alone unless it is fixed anytime soon or ever keeps them ahead of CS on top of that Exorcism is still our highest DPE attack.
    Last edited by Requital; 2012-07-19 at 04:07 AM.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    You are indeed losing damage while doing that. The best assumption at this point from but not counting the most recent changes would be this.

    Inq > 5HP TV > Exo > HoW > CS > Judge > 3-4HP TV

    It's always best to keep generating and using TV @ 5HP. Before people come flying in with Exo and HoW yada yada under the current beta builds both Exocism and Hammer of Wrath build Holy Power even if you miss so that alone unless it is fixed anytime soon or ever keeps them ahead of CS on top of that Exorcism is still our highest DPE attack.
    HoPo finishers use a maximum of 3 period. the extra 2 are overflow very useful in many situations in pvp such as judge and exo targets at range close in with TV>Generator>TV or if you have holy avenger and already have 1-2 HoPo already, they are saved until later.

    It isn't meant to make things easier or more difficult. It is there to reduce the wasted resources.

    Edit: most of the time you won't even get passed 4 as long as you don't get lucky with exo and stick to your target
    Last edited by Greelix; 2012-07-19 at 06:03 AM.
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  10. #30
    Deleted
    yes, build up 5 holypower first

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