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  1. #181
    I said design perspective. I never mentioned lore.

    You can't just remove the focal point of an entire expansion. It serves no purpose.

    The "neutral" part in the original post was about Jaina herself being neutral in that she was a defender of peace. This is her joining in an offensive against the Horde. It's really got nothing to do with Dalaran becoming Alliance only

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodpad View Post
    This really isn't going to happen kids
    You spoiled my fun

  3. #183
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Dave Kosak's tweet :

    ""Jaina's response to Theramore will be explored in Christie Golden's upcoming novel, and later in the Mists patch cycle. Neutral? Pah! ""

    Dalaran will no longer be a neutral city given its leader won't be neutral either. Jaina will remain an Alliance character, she will remain committed to the war, and Dalaran will be Theramore's replacement for sure.
    You must be new to WoW.

    Blizz never updates old content outside of a whole expansion dedicated to it. Sure Jaina may lead the Kirin'tor, but in Northrend it will still be Rhonin leading a neutral capital.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  4. #184
    Keep in mind that even IF the Kirin Tor does return to the Alliance that doesn't mean blizzard is going to make an alliance only dalaran city.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    You must be new to WoW.

    Blizz never updates old content outside of a whole expansion dedicated to it. Sure Jaina may lead the Kirin'tor, but in Northrend it will still be Rhonin leading a neutral capital.
    Which has led to the the idea that Blizzard would move Dalaran back to the vanilla world outisde the Lich King timeline. Wrath is technically in the past to our current characters.

  6. #186
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMOTotal View Post
    Which has led to the the idea that Blizzard would move Dalaran back to the vanilla world outisde the Lich King timeline. Wrath is technically in the past to our current characters.
    Move an alliance capital to the other side of Lordaeron lake?

    What, was I correct when I said the Forsaken would be kicked out of Undercity and Night Elves kicked out of Teldrassil?
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    So I woke up this morning, read the title post, looked at the first post, and my first reaction was.... oh what fresh BS is this...

    so let me get this right, Dalaran, the city that went neutral, that needed the help of the alliance AND the horde, the city which my orc shaman helped the pissy mages fight off the blue dragonflight, who I answered the call to when the menace of yogg saron appeared in ulduar, who as my shaman walks around in dalaran the mages there turn and regard him as a champion.. all this this will now mean nothing, that because of a few arshholes in the horde and Garrosh, who my shaman doesn't even agree with, because of them destroying theramore, now all horde and no longer welcome in dalaran?

    I know exactly whats going to happen. old dalaran in northrend will remain, and we're suppose to pretend thats cool, thats not more inconsistent bs on blizzards part that its still neutral there. It doesn't matter then I get a quest to go to dalaran when I reach northrend on my orc monk as he levels, yet being told dalaran is meant to be alliance now.

    I don't know what pisses me off more here, blizzard in making yet more crap decisions in the lore, where they could have made Jaina into the leader of kul tiras or the fact the story in the game is going to have yet more holes in it making it even harder to explain in a consistent way.
    Hey, alliance lost southshore and now Theramore. Theramore was lore wise, a pretty massive city and a major portal location for the alliance. As for moving it back to hillsbrad. I don't think so. I think if anything, it would move back over old Theramore so the alliance can keep our portal there. Theramore was a major flight point in kalimdor for us. Just like horde need stonard to get to southern eastern kingdoms quickly past all the alliance zones. So it would make more sense, to put Dalaran back over the ruins of Theramore since it was Garrosh who started the war with her, and thereby, war with the Kirin Tor, for the Kirin Tor to be in a strategic location to bring the fight to Garrosh.

  8. #188
    Well they can´t remove the city from Northrend since you need the dailies and the crafting trainers there to level your profession from 400 to 425. So even lv 85 or 90s have to go to Dalaran if they haven´t leveled up their professions or decided to learn another one.
    Aside from that there are several unique traders in dalaran, several achievements, unique pets that can be found, fishing opportunities, a dungeon, etc so it´s not just a city for the lv 70-80s.

    I don´t think they could move all of that to the camps. The achievements and the dungeon are pretty much impossible to move, as are the pets. And even the cooking dailies would have to be recreated from scratch there.

    And there are several quests in Silverpine that send you to the Dalaran crater so if Dalaran returns they´d have to be remade, too.

    And that all for a city that has no gameplay value at all in MOP ?

    I´d be surprised if they do that. I think the Alliance would deserve Dalaran for all the stuff in Cata but i really don´t see it happening.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    How....? Northrend is considered the "past" to our level 85 characters. With the launch of MoP, We would be living in the current timeline where the Kirin Tor is now ruled by Jaina, Alliance specific, and has moved Dalaran back to Hillsbrad.
    there was naxx at eastern plaguelands in the vanilla timeline. it was removed when they decided to add naxx in dragonblight in wrath's timeline. why? because 2 versions of the same place in different places in different timelines at the same time makes things confusing to players.

    dalaran will remain neutral.
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    there was naxx at eastern plaguelands in the vanilla timeline. it was removed when they decided to add naxx in dragonblight in wrath's timeline. why? because 2 versions of the same place in different places in different timelines at the same time makes things confusing to players.

    dalaran will remain neutral.
    Your argument doesn't follow. Places moved to avoid confusion != Dalaran remaining neutral.

    Blizzard has rarely had cities affected by the Alliance/Horde conflict; now would be a good time.
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  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrathius View Post
    The whole reason Dalaran is going back to the Alliance is to make up for losing Theramore.

    Horde doesn't need a new faction, except perhaps for one to put their pre-existing mages in.
    Horde players then lose, lorewise, the connection they had to dalaran. and since the horde came to dalarans call in wrath, dealt with the blue dragonflight for them, answered the call they gave to go to ulduar, it takes the piss that because of the actions of one bad apple killing all Jaina's people, that this could tie to dalaran and have the horde lose the standing with it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-17 at 04:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Alewen View Post
    Hey, alliance lost southshore and now Theramore. Theramore was lore wise, a pretty massive city and a major portal location for the alliance. As for moving it back to hillsbrad. I don't think so. I think if anything, it would move back over old Theramore so the alliance can keep our portal there. Theramore was a major flight point in kalimdor for us. Just like horde need stonard to get to southern eastern kingdoms quickly past all the alliance zones. So it would make more sense, to put Dalaran back over the ruins of Theramore since it was Garrosh who started the war with her, and thereby, war with the Kirin Tor, for the Kirin Tor to be in a strategic location to bring the fight to Garrosh.
    Garrosh didn't start a war with the kirin tor, Theramore and Dalaran have not had any connections since the grand alliance fell apart and dalaran closed itself off from the world.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Your argument doesn't follow. Places moved to avoid confusion != Dalaran remaining neutral.

    Blizzard has rarely had cities affected by the Alliance/Horde conflict; now would be a good time.
    There are 3 options here, all of which suck.

    Option 1: Move Dalaran
    This would require a major redo of Northrend questing, and Eastern Kingdoms as a whole. Blizz would never put two opposing capitals a lake away, so Undercity would be doomed. That requires the forsaken to be moved, and another major quest redo. This is essentially my old "blue EK, red Kalimdor" scenario.

    Option 2: Horde lose Dalaran.
    Again, major Northrend quest revamp. Horde need a new capital and quests to replace the Kirin'tor ones.

    Option 3: Break the timeline.
    This avoids the Northrend revamp, but would still need the EK revamp.

    But there is a gold standard where Blizz won't need to redo things.
    Option 4: Keep Dalaran Neutral
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Dave Kosak's tweet :

    ""Jaina's response to Theramore will be explored in Christie Golden's upcoming novel, and later in the Mists patch cycle. Neutral? Pah! ""

    Dalaran will no longer be a neutral city given its leader won't be neutral either. Jaina will remain an Alliance character, she will remain committed to the war, and Dalaran will be Theramore's replacement for sure.
    Jaina isn't the leader of Dalaran... Rhonin and the other Seven are. Where did you see that Dalaran is going A-side?

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  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Horde players then lose, lorewise, the connection they had to dalaran. and since the horde came to dalarans call in wrath, dealt with the blue dragonflight for them, answered the call they gave to go to ulduar, it takes the piss that because of the actions of one bad apple killing all Jaina's people, that this could tie to dalaran and have the horde lose the standing with it.
    The sound files of that 'one bad apple' make it perfectly clear that the Sunreavers are more than complicit in his actions.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    Wanting stricter immigration policies is predicated upon highly racist views, undoubtedly.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Horde players then lose, lorewise, the connection they had to dalaran. and since the horde came to dalarans call in wrath, dealt with the blue dragonflight for them, answered the call they gave to go to ulduar, it takes the piss that because of the actions of one bad apple killing all Jaina's people, that this could tie to dalaran and have the horde lose the standing with it.
    I don't think the Horde would care that they are no longer allies with Dalaran. What happened in Wrath is over and done with and the story is just progressing forward to open up new and interesting story plot lines.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    is she even powerful? what has she done, i don't read the books but i mostly here about what she DOESN'T do which is "get involved in anything".
    During the Cataclysm, she single handedly kept the swelling ocean from destroying Theramore with constant tidal waves by keeping up a gigantic Dragon's Breath spell, several times more powerful than anything normal mages can maintain. I'm pretty sure she was able to do this for over a day, possibly longer.

    She also received some teaching (and maybe some power? I'm not sure on this part) from Aegywynn, the former Guardian of Tirisfal, and is acknowledged as the most powerful mortal sorcer(ess) in all of Azeroth.

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  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlarStormbringer View Post
    During the Cataclysm, she single handedly kept the swelling ocean from destroying Theramore with constant tidal waves by keeping up a gigantic Dragon's Breath spell, several times more powerful than anything normal mages can maintain. I'm pretty sure she was able to do this for over a day, possibly longer.

    She also received some teaching (and maybe some power? I'm not sure on this part) from Aegywynn, the former Guardian of Tirisfal, and is acknowledged as the most powerful mortal sorcer(ess) in all of Azeroth.
    Could you provide or direct us to a quote or something. I'd like to confirm that. Both Rhonin and Khadgar seem more experienced/powerful.

  18. #198
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    Since when, was Jaina the leader of Dalaran?
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Garrosh didn't start a war with the kirin tor, Theramore and Dalaran have not had any connections since the grand alliance fell apart and dalaran closed itself off from the world.
    Actually he did start it with Theramore. And who was Theramore's leader? And who is now the Kirin Tor's leader? Look you wont need to worry though. I will lay it out for your:

    - Northrend Dalaran is not moving
    - Northrend Dalaran will be the Dalaran of the past. You will be able to retain your portals there. Still do the dailies. It is part of Northrend's story. They can't move it because people to this day, still do the Ulduar quest to send the signal out.

    - New Dalaran will appear somewhere in Cataclysm content. Since Theramore is a world changing land in Cataclysm content, and Alliance used it as a major portal and flight point hub, I am going to venture a guess a copy of Dalaran will appear over the Theramore ruins to replace the lost Theramore. Theramore was a major city lore wise. And Dalaran is about the same size as Theramore.
    - New Dalaran will be Alliance only. Since it was the Sunreavers who dropped the manabomb on Theramore, they get kicked out of New Dalaran and Theramore story wise, becomes a replacement quest hub for the Alliance players.

    Now think about this. Dustwallow Marsh is a 35-40 leveling zone, shared by both horde and alliance. There's only 2 other 35-40 zones, Feralas and Western Plaguelands. That level bracket is the smallest options for leveling than the other leveling zones which usually offer 4-6 alternative zones. That would give horde 1 extra 35-40 zone to quest in, and alliance would be reduced down to 2 options, feralas or western plaguelands. And given that southern barrens quests lead to dustwallow marsh, there HAS to be a replacement for Theramore. And with this confirmed information that Dalaran will no longer be neutral, and given that in game there are 4 versions of Garrosh, 1 in outland, 2 in northrend and now the warchief one in kalimdor. It is very plausable to say that Dalaran in Northrend, wont be moving. But a copy of modern Dalaran could appear and be alliance only.

    Blizzard's lore. They may of said in the past they have no plans to move Dalaran. And they would still be holding that true. Dalaran in Northrend wont move. Just a new one would appear in current content. Dustwallow Marsh also in cataclysm, had no updated story. They were still playing off vanilla questlines. So I am going to venture a guess that that zone will get its much needed update in MoP, especially since we now see Theramore in ruins currently. Of course if you want us to outright lose a major portal hub to southern kalimdor, then I will go and demand horde lose stonard. Horde should lose the swamp of sorrows as a major quest hub and reduce horde down 1 hub just like they did alliance. So which would you rather have. Horde lose a major quest leveling bracket hub, or a copy of Dalaran as an alliance city replaces Theramore.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babaganouch View Post
    Since when, was Jaina the leader of Dalaran?
    Well, leader of the Kirin Tor thanks to the new soundfiles.

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