Alliance Dalaran

[Deleted]

WOTLK through Cata wasn't enough love?

How the hell did WotLK favour Horde? They hardly had any business in Northrend.

It was all about Human ancestors, Dwarven ancestors, two Alliance factions went Neutral and the Villain was former Human
(the Orc part was completely written out)

It was totally an Alliance based expansion.

Anyway, I agree that Cataclysm favoured Horde. But that's balanced out by WotLK already, so let's drop it.

I'm talking about factions here. The Horde doesn't have any factions.

It also hardly has heroes, while the Alliance has too many to include them all in the story.
Which is the big reason why we haven't seen Turalyon come back, or see Danath do anything recently, etc.

How is the Horde going to rival the Kirin'Tor, which is comprised of the most powerful Mages (excluding Khadgar)?
Will they simply send the Warsong Clan against it? Oh, they'd get slaughtered.

Maybe a combination of Sunreavers and Apothecary can do the job. But I doubt we'll see it.

[Florena]

I kind of agree with this. If blizzard want to move away from neutral cities, they need to balance it, since the neutral factions were once alliance factions to begin with, and without them the alliance have more ground then the horde, which just sucks gameplay and storywise.

Well I think the sunreavers are douchebags, it was one blood elf in the sunreavers that betrayed. And if Jaina is kicking out all horde associated characters from dalaran, then they should have Aethas Sunreaver use his and silvermoons mages to make there own organisation, a blood elf themed floating city.

Well we're still speculating. It could well be a conspiracy throughout the entire Sunreavers, or it could be one or two of them working on their own. We frankly just don't know yet and can only speculate. But I think it's at least possible that this goes beyond one or two blood elf traitors. We'll have to see how the novel plays out I guess.

And heaven forbid that after all the Alliance's losses in Cata blizz actually throws us a bone and gives us back one of our original Alliance factions. =P

[Bizarro55]

I kind of agree with this. If blizzard want to move away from neutral cities, they need to balance it, since the neutral factions were once alliance factions to begin with, and without them the alliance have more ground then the horde, which just sucks gameplay and storywise.

Well I think the sunreavers are douchebags, it was one blood elf in the sunreavers that betrayed. And if Jaina is kicking out all horde associated characters from dalaran, then they should have Aethas Sunreaver use his and silvermoons mages to make there own organisation, a blood elf themed floating city.

O hai, I heard you blew up Theramore, the Alliance's only major foothold on mainland Kalimdor, so we're gonna give you too a floating city.

Jaina's move is going to be the Alliance's response to Theramore's destruction, as stated by Dave Kosak in his latest tweet:

"Theramore is a dark moment. The Alliance is being challenged, and will respond - stronger than ever!"

[Deleted]

Well I think the sunreavers are douchebags, it was one blood elf in the sunreavers that betrayed. And if Jaina is kicking out all horde associated characters from dalaran, then they should have Aethas Sunreaver use his and silvermoons mages to make there own organisation, a blood elf themed floating city.

I don't think the Horde needs their own floating city. But at least they should have a faction of powerful spellcasters working together.

[Holtzmann]

I don't think the Horde needs their own floating city. But at least they should have a faction of powerful spellcasters working together.

Sylvanas could get right on that. She's not a magic-user herself, but her Forsaken have a lot of folks working with arcane stuff, and she's the one who got the Blood Elves to join the horde. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sunreavers and other Blood Elves joining with the Forsaken to form their own Horde Mage association if they ended up kicked out of the Kirin Tor. No floating cities, though. The Undead are afraid of heights. :P

[Tyrathius]

Well, it's possible the Horde will keep the Sunreavers and they just won't be a part of the Kirin Tor or get to hang out in Dalaran anymore.

[Florena]

I don't think Wrath favored the Horde at all. It COULD have if the Forsaken were played up more, but sadely after Dragonblight and the Undercity battle they kind of fall off the rader. Dalaran going neutral was a disapointment as an alliance player, but the Argent Dawn was clearly established as neutral since vanilla, and the same with Tirion, it's not quite as jarring as Thrall doing it, since none of their leaders were established faction characters. One could even say that Wrath is Alliance favoring because we learn more about the origins of humans, dwarves and gnomes, and the fact that Bolvar is integral to the ending while the Horde equivelant was just a raid boss, albeit one with a touching scene after being defeated.

Regarding the 'MoP is just us helping the horde get rid of their evil leader!' Well guess who the horde leader is that is responsible for most of the Alliance losses save for Hillsbrad, including Theramore like? Garrosh Hellscream. He ordered the invasion of Gilneas, the invasion of Ashenvale, probably the destruction of Theramore etc, we are going after the guy responsible for these atrocities and those loyal to him. Not to mention this is only in the final patch.

[Tyrathius]

Regarding the 'MoP is just us helping the horde get rid of their evil leader!' Well guess who the horde leader is that is responsible for most of the Alliance losses save for Hillsbrad, including Theramore like? Garrosh Hellscream. He ordered the invasion of Gilneas, the invasion of Ashenvale, probably the destruction of Theramore etc, we are going after the guy responsible for these atrocities and those loyal to him.

Except no, he's really not.

Garrosh ordered the invasion of Gilneas, but it was Sylvanas who plaguedbombed the city explicitly against his orders. It was Sylvanas who wiped Southshore off the map, and Sylvanas' and her Val'kyr who massacred Andorhal. Garrosh, meanwhile, disapproved of the plague and the Val'kyr, killed the general responsible for the bomb used in Stonetalon, and didn't know about the corruption of Ashenvale's heart. I would actually say they're having him destroy Theramore just so he's guilty of something besides being a jerkass and wanting to expand the Horde, since in Cata he was clearly the lesser of two evils.

But instead it looks like Garrosh is just being scapegoated, and all the atrocities the Horde has committed will be blamed on him, even the ones he didn't know about/approve of, while the real villain Sylvanas gets let off without so much as a slap on the wrist because she has bewbs and is popular.

[Holtzmann]

Except no, he's really not.

Garrosh ordered the invasion of Gilneas, but it was Sylvanas who plaguedbombed the city explicitly against his orders. It was Sylvanas who wiped Southshore off the map, and Sylvanas' and her Val'kyr who massacred Andorhal. Garrosh, meanwhile, disapproved of the plague and the Val'kyr, killed the general responsible for the bomb used in Stonetalon, and didn't know about the corruption of Ashenvale's heart. I would actually say they're having him destroy Theramore just so he's guilty of something besides being a jerkass and wanting to expand the Horde, since in Cata he was clearly the lesser of two evils.

But instead it looks like Garrosh is just being scapegoated, and all the atrocities the Horde has committed will be blamed on him, even the ones he didn't know about/approve of, while the real villain Sylvanas gets let off without so much as a slap on the wrist because she has bewbs and is popular.

Garrosh's most certainly pure and kind intentions towards the Alliance don't matter: all that stuff was done under his watch. If he can't control his underlings and yet struts around like he's so badass his entire being smells of colon, it's not the Alliance's problem. He positioned himself as the Warchief by starting a war and the Horde is the aggressor under his general orders, so he's got the big red target painted on his forehead.

Sylvanas can have hers later on. After all, we can't defeat all the villains in a single expansion.

[Servasus]

Ohhhhhh man. Shit's going down.

I quite like the guy's post about her blasting all the horde off the city. Jaina's always been one of my favorite characters, and I really enjoyed the spotlight she got in Lich King. Now we get to see the truly angry side of her. Jaina's not someone I'd want to piss off in the first place, so this will be exciting to see.

[dulcheshammie]

Hi, WOW lore is really lame. K tks bye.

[Thulvaso]

Hi, WOW lore is really lame. K tks bye.

Then why post in the first place

[marinos]

Hi, WOW lore is really lame. K tks bye.

More lame than you?No way!

[Austilias]

I don't think Wrath favored the Horde at all. It COULD have if the Forsaken were played up more, but sadely after Dragonblight and the Undercity battle they kind of fall off the rader. Dalaran going neutral was a disapointment as an alliance player, but the Argent Dawn was clearly established as neutral since vanilla, and the same with Tirion, it's not quite as jarring as Thrall doing it, since none of their leaders were established faction characters. One could even say that Wrath is Alliance favoring because we learn more about the origins of humans, dwarves and gnomes, and the fact that Bolvar is integral to the ending while the Horde equivelant was just a raid boss, albeit one with a touching scene after being defeated.

In every area the Horde are seen to fare better than the Alliance; 'Valiance Keep' is a half-built shack whose armed forces consist of drafted civilians whilst 'Warsong Hold' is the biggest keep in the entire landscape, with a few Nerubians that ultimately prove naught but a minor inconvenience. Venomspite was a fully functioning, up-and-running base of operations for the Forsaken in Dragonblight, risk-free and the staging point for their work with blights; Wintergarde Keep on the other hand is, like Valiance Keep, another city under siege and half-destroyed. Valgarde is much of the same; another Alliance territory under siege, this time by the Vrykul, while over in Vengeance Landing we see the Forsaken/Horde effortlessly eliminate their threats. Throughout WOTLK, the Horde were shown to be significantly better and more efficient than the Alliance in unknown, harsh and unforgiving territory.

The Alliance did learn much of the history, but this point is quickly negated by the fact that the Horde did too; the Tauren having met the Taunka, the Trolls having learned much of the Drakkari, the entire expansion much revolving around the Forsaken, out of everyone, getting their vengeance against the Lich King, rather than the Alliance, etc.

Regarding the 'MoP is just us helping the horde get rid of their evil leader!' Well guess who the horde leader is that is responsible for most of the Alliance losses save for Hillsbrad, including Theramore like? Garrosh Hellscream. He ordered the invasion of Gilneas, the invasion of Ashenvale, probably the destruction of Theramore etc, we are going after the guy responsible for these atrocities and those loyal to him. Not to mention this is only in the final patch.

That's hardly the point though. The Horde has long been shown to revel in their conquest against the Alliance; this is not just a case of 'Big Bad Garrosh'. The Forsaken attacked Gilneas and beyond with glee, the Orcs have delighted in the further destruction of Ashenvale. I could go on. Garrosh being a raid boss is no different to Varian being a raid boss; for the Horde, it wouldn't be a victory over the Alliance, rather, a victory over Varian. What's worse is that we help the Horde. There's no victory here whatsoever, and the whole thing is a farce from the same game designers/creators who have time and time again demonstrated their Horde preference and bias.

[Xiphan]

It would be nice if people were a little more tentative around these kind of claims. If the Alliance don't get Dalaran you can bet at least one person will have seen this thread title and will say Blizzard lied to them.

Dalaran has a ruling council anyway and although there is a leader they're kind of a public face rather than dictator, so just having an Alliance inclined ruler doesn't ensure an Alliance inclined city, especially not so long as Aethas remains on the council.

[Jackkernaut]

Is there a possibility that another faction will join the horde? (my bet will be Blackrock orcs or Forest Trolls or........OGRES!!!!)

[Austilias]

Garrosh's most certainly pure and kind intentions towards the Alliance don't matter: all that stuff was done under his watch. If he can't control his underlings and yet struts around like he's so badass his entire being smells of colon, it's not the Alliance's problem. He positioned himself as the Warchief by starting a war and the Horde is the aggressor under his general orders, so he's got the big red target painted on his forehead.

Sylvanas can have hers later on. After all, we can't defeat all the villains in a single expansion.

By this logic Jaina should be an end-game boss due to the actions of General Hawthorne and his forces in the Barrens, just because they wore the colours of Theramore in the same way that Sylvanas and her forces call themselves Horde. Hawthorne paid the price for what happened in Theramore, and even then he was both extremely merciful (having left gaps for civilians to escape) and regretful ("There are some, even in Alliance High Command, who argued that I let an opportunity slip away. That I should've taken hostages. But I don't see the value in those sort of terror-tactics. Hear me out, <name>: I want this war to end someday. It won't ever stop if we butcher or imprison civilians.")

The same can't be said for Sylvanas and the Forsaken who are wholly responsible for their own actions, whatever Garrosh's shortcomings.

[Stalemate]

Is there a possibility that another faction will join the horde? (my bet will be the enigmatic Blackrock orcs or Forest Trolls or........OGRES!!!!)

you forgot that bit!

[Tyrathius]

Is there a possibility that another faction will join the horde? (my bet will be Blackrock orcs or Forest Trolls or........OGRES!!!!)

The whole reason Dalaran is going back to the Alliance is to make up for losing Theramore.

Horde doesn't need a new faction, except perhaps for one to put their pre-existing mages in.

[Austilias]

The whole reason Dalaran is going back to the Alliance is to make up for losing Theramore.

Horde doesn't need a new faction, except perhaps for one to put their pre-existing mages in.

Bearing in mind that Silvermoon is a city that now houses about 1% of the numbers that is used to (the High Elves that is before the Scourge came and wiped them all but out, resulting in the Blood Elves as a consequence), i'd say that is has more than enough room; not least when you consider that it is about as close to Dalaran as you can get.