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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    And would you stupidly open the door already pointing it at their heads?
    Who claim that?
    Oh the cops who banged on the wrong door shooting an innocent man...
    Putins agresssions brings back the cold war.

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by tiporispit View Post
    Do you understand you can't go into a Webster's dictionary and define assault? Assault is defined by the State of Florida, not Mirriam. Specifically, F.S.S. 784.011, 784.021 and 784.05 come into play here. Please note 7.4.021 (1)a which specifically states "With a deadly weapon without intent to kill" which basically makes you full of shit and not worthy of any further debate, other than to point out that the officers are guilty of culpable negligence under 78.405
    I was talking in general terms, not specifically based on Florida law, but if you want to limit the scope of the discussion to merely Florida, that's fine, we'll go there.

    784.011 Assault.

    (1) An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

    784.021 Aggravated assault.
    (1) An "aggravated assault" is an assault:

    (a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or

    (b) With an intent to commit a felony.


    He was holding a weapon, proving inherent ability. He pointed it at the police, a felony. What part about this is so hard for you to understand? Not surprised you're looking for an out to break off the debate, you're wrong and you know it.

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    It is cause for concern...which is why you call the police. You do not open the door. That puts you IN harms way. The door closed, at least puts a barrier between you and the possible criminal. Announce you are armed and call the police. Simple, and much safer.
    Yup he made a poor decision, want to know another POOR decision? It also has to do with the keyword announce, guess you can figure it out.

    I also wonder how it is proved that he pointed at the cops? Another person inside who said that or just the police who happened to shoot him
    Putins agresssions brings back the cold war.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by ripslyme View Post
    And who reports it ????????? The Police after they killed him ???? hahah dont make me laugh
    ...Not even worth this response.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Laurellin - Deathknight

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Flappy View Post
    I feel sorry for any pizza delivery people who went knocking on that guy's door by mistake. I guess that's a totally appropriate way to open a door if it's past midnight.

    Oh wait, pointing a gun at somebody is only a good idea if you mean to kill them? Shucks.
    That would be really strange to order a pizza, then not expect the delivery person to show up at your door. Did he call the local Chinese restaurant and order 3 armed police officers with a side of unidentified that morning? Then you're talking apples and oranges.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    No. My step dad is a cop. I am not a big fan of him, but if somebody is pointing a gun at him I would rather have him take the first shot then be shot himself. It is just stupidity to point a gun at a cop and not expect anything bad to come from it.
    But the thing is, we cant base our lives on our feelings.
    Of course you would rather your step dad takes the first shot, but does that make it right ? Not at all.

    If someone points a gun at a cop, in say, Denmark, Hungary, france or canada, the police would try to disarm the person, and only use deadly force as a last resort.
    In the united states the police resorts to deadly force as its default.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    And he could have killed the cops with a twitch of his fingers. What if he had shot first, would you be defending him? How were the cops to know he wasn't some crazy nut who was going to shoot them?

    Pointing a gun at people with guns is a good way to get killed.
    In most normal country you are not allow to use more force then situation requires to protect yourself. If somebody knock on your in the night you do not have the right to have gun in your hand then you open, but in US you have all type of law like that your home is your castle and you have the right to defend it and you have no obligation to retreat, technical you can blast a person because he is trespassing and you feel threatened.

    The police did not identified themselves so technical he did have the right to have a gun in his hand according to the law. Personally I think you have right to self-defence but it must be proportionate to the threat.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthless View Post
    I think we are just following your example. You have a lot more experience with kids using guns at school...

    And after this idiocy i would like to get back to the original point. I think that there is something wrong if people have to open their doors with loaded firearms. You really do not see anything wrong with that? We really do not have to do that in here and there are a lot of countries that are the same as us.
    No, I don't see anything wrong with it. We trade security for freedom. You trade freedom for security. Differing philosophies. I like ours just fine.

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    And when they bust your door in? If they don't identify themselves as officers should you should be unable to defend yourself or would it at that point be okay to point the gun at them?
    Listen.

    No one is saying the officers are blameless.

    No one is saying the system is flawless.

    But there are assholes calling them murderers for not wanting to get shot by a suspect in an attempted murder case. They went to the residence expecting to find someone who already tried to kill another person. They found a guy with a gun. The guy with the gun got shot. Get off your fucking high horse.

  10. #650
    Police are looking less like police officers and more like storm troopers these days, specially after 9/11. They're nothing but thugs with a license to kill, these guys are pretty much wiping their asses with the constitution.

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by tiporispit View Post
    That would be really strange to order a pizza, then not expect the delivery person to show up at your door. Did he call the local Chinese restaurant and order 3 armed police officers with a side of unidentified that morning? Then you're talking apples and oranges.
    Did you even take the time to read the whopping 50 words I wrote? IF THE DELIVERY GUY KNOCKED ON THE WRONG DOOR.

    Also he apparently never tried to identify who was outside the door because even Rambo would have a hard time killing 3 armed and aimed gunmen, or he was just that stupid. This isn't a game where you have to call "UNO", it's real life. Don't open the door thug matrimony style is a lesson I think everyone can learn from, regardless of what time of night it is or who is on the other side.
    Last edited by Flappy; 2012-07-18 at 06:11 PM.

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    I was talking in general terms, not specifically based on Florida law, but if you want to limit the scope of the discussion to merely Florida, that's fine, we'll go there.

    784.011 Assault.

    (1) An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

    784.021 Aggravated assault.
    (1) An "aggravated assault" is an assault:

    (a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or

    (b) With an intent to commit a felony.


    He was holding a weapon, proving inherent ability. He pointed it at the police, a felony. What part about this is so hard for you to understand? Not surprised you're looking for an out to break off the debate, you're wrong and you know it.

    By that standard it should be aggravated assult if a cop points a gun at me...

    Since it is a felony to point a gun at anyone....

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Yup he made a poor decision, want to know another POOR decision? It also has to do with the keyword announce, guess you can figure it out.
    Cops don't need to announce who they are, in the case it may have saved a man's life. In others it can just as easily cost someone theirs. In my opinion it seems safer for them to not announce it. The man did not need to open the door. If he felt threatened, call the police. Period. Announcing he is armed and calling the police could have deterred whoever it was from actually forcing entry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Laurellin - Deathknight

  14. #654
    Herald of the Titans LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enohpi View Post
    But the thing is, we cant base our lives on our feelings.
    Of course you would rather your step dad takes the first shot, but does that make it right ? Not at all.

    If someone points a gun at a cop, in say, Denmark, Hungary, france or canada, the police would try to disarm the person, and only use deadly force as a last resort.
    In the united states the police resorts to deadly force as its default.
    Fuck me if somebody ever points a gun at me and I have to get up close to them and wrestle it out of their grip. It is common sense that pointing a gun at a cop is a move that will screw you for the rest of your life. And what can police do if they are 5 feet or meters away? Stun guns are a no go because as said earlier, they can set off firearms if the fingers contract. If they come closer they can get shot.

    Nothing dealing with firearms is morally right, but humanity is existing how it is and it won't change anytime soon.

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    Cops don't need to announce who they are, in the case it may have saved a man's life. In others it can just as easily cost someone theirs. In my opinion it seems safer for them to not announce it. The man did not need to open the door. If he felt threatened, call the police. Period. Announcing he is armed and calling the police could have deterred whoever it was from actually forcing entry.

    Safer for the cops, sure. For everyone else? Not so much....

  16. #656
    Herald of the Titans LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lockon Stratos View Post
    Police are looking less like police officers and more like storm troopers these days, specially after 9/11. They're nothing but thugs with a license to kill, these guys are pretty much wiping their asses with the constitution.
    Police are fine. There are just bad incidents that the media likes to blow up. This involved 3 cops. There are a couple million in the entire US. Take all the horrible things you hear about cops in the media per year and lets say that is 150 total cops that messed up. Still an abysmally small percentage.

  17. #657
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Listen.

    No one is saying the officers are blameless.

    No one is saying the system is flawless.

    But there are assholes calling them murderers for not wanting to get shot by a suspect in an attempted murder case. They went to the residence expecting to find someone who already tried to kill another person. They found a guy with a gun. The guy with the gun got shot. Get off your fucking high horse.
    He's a murderer. How hard is it to understand for you? What the cops did was totally unacceptable.

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by turlyonlost to tirion wtf View Post
    Sticking a gun at a cop the guys a fucking genius
    The article says that they did not identify themselves(the officers), so very likely the guy had no idea they were officers.
    nothing but empty space here bro. move along now.

  19. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Listen.

    No one is saying the officers are blameless.

    No one is saying the system is flawless.

    But there are assholes calling them murderers for not wanting to get shot by a suspect in an attempted murder case. They went to the residence expecting to find someone who already tried to kill another person. They found a guy with a gun. The guy with the gun got shot. Get of your fucking high horse.
    Except they failed horribly, they got the address WRONG. I mean, how incompetent and stupid is that? They did not properly announce themselves as police officers and banged on someone's door who responded appropriately.

    Cops are garbage, and it's not beyond them to plant drugs and weapons to cover up their screw ups. This guy could very well have been unarmed...

  20. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    By that standard it should be aggravated assult if a cop points a gun at me...

    Since it is a felony to point a gun at anyone....
    I think you missed the word "unlawful." It's lawful for the police to use their weapons in their duty.

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