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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by spk View Post
    Do we know if arms is going to be better than fury? I honestly don't even care, I just need to min/max at 90 asap.
    I doubt that there is anything remotely resembling serious theorycraft out there currently.
    Anyways nice guide would be interested in a couple more of those tests.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    I mixed Reck up with Skull Banner when I said that, my b.

    See, but, skull banner simply increases crit as well, doesn't it?

  3. #23
    Mechagnome Seramore's Avatar
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    No, it increases crit damage.


  4. #24
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    See, but, skull banner simply increases crit as well, doesn't it?
    no, it increases your critical damage.

    DAMMIT

    FUUUUUUUUUU >=( i wanted to sound smart </3
    A storm is on the horizon, and I’m standing here alone
    Got a pistol on my hip an' it's gon' be some shit, so if you want it then bring it on
    See, I'm a motherfuckin' soldier and I’mma be here 'til it’s done
    And when they asking who I'm is, shit, you just tell them that I’m the one

  5. #25
    Don't worry, I learned something new today, so you both sound smart!

  6. #26
    Mechagnome Seramore's Avatar
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    I will be comparing bolt Avatar and Stormbolt during this weekends testing. I'm not going to publicly post logs, but I'll tell you guys how it ends up being. If you guys will be testing, try to test the comparison as well.


  7. #27
    Mechagnome Seramore's Avatar
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    Updated a bit.


  8. #28
    High Overlord
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    Great initiative!

  9. #29
    High Overlord Rustynip's Avatar
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    Posting between pulls on the boss right now. On average, Storm Bolt is hitting for about 130k and is doing a very good amount of my overall damage. In comparison to Dragon Roar's guaranteed crit of around 200K once per minute, Storm Bolt is a very good addition to that damage at ~260k per minute. I have been keeping its priority above MS when I have a CS debuff up as well as Berzerker Rage, and below MS when they're not. Since both BR and SB are on a 30sec CD, they line up very nicely as long as you have good RNG with your CS.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-03 at 09:43 PM ----------

    Ok so after looking at logs this is what I seem to have acquired:

    Storm Bolt: 103131.4 Avg Damage
    Dragon Roar: 191541.5 Avg Damage

    Now if you compare them as damage over one minute, you get:
    Storm Bolt: (103131.4 * 2) / (60sec) = 3437.7 DPM
    Dragon Roar: (191541.5) / (60sec) = 3192.4 DPM

    Considering that I mainly used SB while the CS debuff was up, it compares +/- a few hundred DPS to Dragon Roar which completely ignores armor anyway.
    I'm not exactly sure how to calculate the actual damage you get from Avatar right now since more likely than not, its going to be used on the pull and then on CD thereafter which factors in other procs, buffs and CDs.
    Last edited by Rustynip; 2012-08-04 at 01:44 AM.

  10. #30
    Field Marshal Rokugan's Avatar
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    Bump I've also been testing rotations, I'd like to see more logs

  11. #31
    I'm not sure why you're comparing Storm Bolt to Dragon Roar, since they're not mutually exclusive. Needed comparisons would be Bladestorm vs Dragon Roar (for single target) and Avatar vs BB vs SB.
    Cairne wanted to thank him again, to offer encouragement, praise for a task so successfully completed. For being able to bear such burdens. But Saurfang was an orc, not a blood elf, and lavish compliments and effusion would not be welcomed or wanted.

  12. #32
    Does Shockwave impact the rotation in any way?

    Does Impeding Victory yield a dps boost / does it do enough damage to be part of the rotation?

    Ty for the answers

  13. #33
    You have quite a few gaps in the current rotation due to low rage income, so Shockwave fills the gap when you don't have enough rage for something else. It's inferior to DR and BS though.

    Impeding Victory is a terrible choice because it does poor damage and costs rage, so even as a filler it's bad.
    Cairne wanted to thank him again, to offer encouragement, praise for a task so successfully completed. For being able to bear such burdens. But Saurfang was an orc, not a blood elf, and lavish compliments and effusion would not be welcomed or wanted.

  14. #34
    High Overlord Rustynip's Avatar
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    Level 60 Tier Talents Against Single Target:

    All comparisons will be calculated at 30000 AP using Malevolent Gladiator's Decapitator

    Bladestorm:
    [6sec * (1.2 * 17010.5)]
    = 122475.6 Damage over 6 seconds (20412.6 DPS)
    = 134723.1 Damage with Berserker Rage (22453.8 DPS)
    = 140112.0 Damage with Berserker Rage inside Colossus Smash (23352 DPS)

    Shockwave:
    [(0.75 * AP) * 1.2]
    = (22500 * 1.2)
    = 27000 Damage
    = 29700 Damage with Berserker Rage
    = 30780 Damage with Berserker Rage inside Colossus Smash

    Dragon Roar(Arms)
    2 * [1.2 * (1.4 * AP)]
    = 2 * [1.2 * (42000)]
    = 2 * 50400
    = 100800 Damage
    = 110880 Damage with Berserker Rage
    = 115315 Damage with Berserker Rage inside Colossus Smash

    So in total, Bladestorm is doing the overall least amount of damage single target compared to Shockwave and Dragon Roar. Not really surprised by this as Dragon Roar and Shockwave both scale with AP.
    Last edited by Rustynip; 2012-08-06 at 03:09 AM.

  15. #35
    Mechagnome Seramore's Avatar
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    Why would you use Bladestorm for single target?


  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustynip View Post
    Level 60 Tier Talents Against Single Target:
    Can you clarify those coefficients you're using? I'm assuming 1.2 is a 20% crit chance, but I can't wrap my head around the DR ones you used. Also DR already ignores CS so it shouldn't see an increase from it.

    EDIT: Thinking about it and since you have a 2* to DR, maybe that 20% is the damage increase Arms gets? In this case you have to acc for crit % for SW and BS. There's also the DPE of both abitilies, you hardly have an empty gcd every 20 sec to fill with Shockwave and unless you do that it falls short of both DR and BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    Why would you use Bladestorm for single target?
    Even in Cata there was a discussion whether 3 ticks of BS was worth it or not (to which there never was a definite answer, since we are kind of lacking in the theorycrafters department).

    For Arms it's less clear cut, but the fact that it's free and each it hits harder than an OP on average (432% weapon damage in 3 sec vs 320% in the same span) make me want to keep an eye on it. You can also shout during it, meaning you can expect ~30-40 rage by using BS depending on your autoattacks. So as long as you don't delay MS and possibly CS (meaning you have to /cancelaura before the full 6 sec) I'm actually quite attracted to BS and the single target possibilities it presents.

    For TG fury I'm almost convinced it's better than DR for single target.
    Last edited by Satori; 2012-08-05 at 11:55 PM.
    Cairne wanted to thank him again, to offer encouragement, praise for a task so successfully completed. For being able to bear such burdens. But Saurfang was an orc, not a blood elf, and lavish compliments and effusion would not be welcomed or wanted.

  17. #37
    Mechagnome Seramore's Avatar
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    Did some testing in LFR by comparing Dragon Roar and Shockwave, and Shockwave came out ahead of Dragon Roar on single target fights. This ability was definitely overlooked and is worth trying out.

    As a side note for the comparison between Avatar and Stormbolt, a lot of you aren't paying much attention to the extra rage generation Avatar gives you. When you use Avatar below 20%, you will get to use Execute a lot more times than you would when specced into Stormbolt.
    Last edited by Seramore; 2012-08-06 at 02:44 AM.


  18. #38
    High Overlord Rustynip's Avatar
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    Can you clarify those coefficients you're using? I'm assuming 1.2 is a 20% crit chance, but I can't wrap my head around the DR ones you used. Also DR already ignores CS so it shouldn't see an increase from it.
    I'm actually not taking critical strike chance into account for these because that would require all of these equations to be placed over a time period because there is no way to use a 20% crit chance in a static equation. I solely want to find their unmodified base damage. And Dragon Roar does in fact gain a damage boost from Colossus Smash even though it already ignores armor. This is because CS now applies the new Physical Vulnerability debuff to the target which increases its damage taken by 4%

    The 1.2 that you're seeing on Bladestorm is the 120% Weapon Damage coefficient.
    [6sec * (1.2 * 17010.5)]
    This formula is showing: [Duration * (DamageModifier * AvgWepDamage)]
    So the 17010.5 is calculated from the Malevolent Gladiator's Decapitator average weapon damage. So this formula just shows 120% of that damage across 6 seconds.

    Shockwave's formula
    [(0.75 * AP) * 1.2]
    This is pulled straight from Blizzards formula for the ability. (Can be found here)
    [(75% of AttackPower) * DamageMultiplyer]
    The 1.2 is just a modifier that they put in there to up the damage.

    Dragon Roar
    2 * [1.2 * (1.4 * AP)]
    This formula was actually wrong. Instead of a 1.51 multiplier, its actually a 1.2 modifier and I fixed it in the original post. I had to calculate this on my own because there was no info out their for how Blizz got there base damage. Currently at level 1 the tooltip base damage is 151 but to calculate this at 90 with 140% AP scaling that Dragon Roar just got nerfed to (was 200%) you find 140% of your current AP. On beta unbuffed, mine is 28060, and 140% of this is 39284. Now with this, you take the damage from the tooltip and divide.

    [Tooltip Damage / (1.4 * AP)]
    = [47292 / (39284)]
    = 1.2 This is the damage modifier

    Now you just multiply the modifier by 140% of your AP to get the total base damage non-crit. Thats where the 2 comes in, it represents the 200% crit damage that all classes (except for ele shamans) get in Mists.
    Last edited by Rustynip; 2012-08-06 at 03:12 AM.

  19. #39
    Field Marshal Rokugan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    As a side note for the comparison between Avatar and Stormbolt, a lot of you aren't paying much attention to the extra rage generation Avatar gives you. When you use Avatar below 20%, you will get to use Execute a lot more times than you would when specced into Stormbolt.
    I too found that with Avatar below 20% it puts my Execute dmg way over the top.

  20. #40
    arms, fury, prot, what does it all mean!? it sounds like an angry cooking instance that worked you out bueno chops.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Lohe; 2012-08-06 at 09:25 AM.

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