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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    Did some testing in LFR by comparing Dragon Roar and Shockwave, and Shockwave came out ahead of Dragon Roar on single target fights. This ability was definitely overlooked and is worth trying out.
    I don't think you can just compare the damage done by both abilities, because there's the opportunity cost of using Shockwave as a filler. DPE (damage per Execute) for DR is a lot higher than SW and for this ability to been competitive you have to use it roughly every 20 sec. In my personal experience, we don't have that many empty GCDs, but that could be because I'm using Storm Bolt usually.

    I can see SW being more competitive with bad gear, like raid entry lvl.

    Also sorry for bringing this stuff up in your guide thread, not sure if it's the ideal place to be arguing over things like these.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rustynip View Post
    stuff
    All right thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure how legit it is to ignore crit chance for SW and BS and then account for DR's garanteed crit, this will definetly skew results and the higher your crit chance the less value DR's garanteed crit has (similar to how Overpower can be over 100% crit chance with base crit + trinkets or during recklessness).
    Cairne wanted to thank him again, to offer encouragement, praise for a task so successfully completed. For being able to bear such burdens. But Saurfang was an orc, not a blood elf, and lavish compliments and effusion would not be welcomed or wanted.

  2. #42
    High Overlord Rustynip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    All right thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure how legit it is to ignore crit chance for SW and BS and then account for DR's garanteed crit, this will definetly skew results and the higher your crit chance the less value DR's garanteed crit has (similar to how Overpower can be over 100% crit chance with base crit + trinkets or during recklessness).
    Well even if you do add a 100% crit chance to both abilities they don't even come close to Dragon Roars damage

  3. #43
    Dreadlord Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    I don't think you can just compare the damage done by both abilities, because there's the opportunity cost of using Shockwave as a filler. DPE (damage per Execute) for DR is a lot higher than SW and for this ability to been competitive you have to use it roughly every 20 sec. In my personal experience, we don't have that many empty GCDs, but that could be because I'm using Storm Bolt usually.

    I can see SW being more competitive with bad gear, like raid entry lvl.

    Also sorry for bringing this stuff up in your guide thread, not sure if it's the ideal place to be arguing over things like these.
    Even when occasionally used as a filler, it still pulled out ahead. If you're pairing Shockwave with Stormbolt, then I would say it's not really worth it due to the issues with already pretty much being GCD capped if you're doing everything right. I would rather pair Shockwave with Avatar, and Dragon Roar with Stormbolt.

    And just for clarification purposes, it's not like I did these tests by myself. I did LFR multiple times with two other Warriors and compared the damage on each fight.
    if you use a pony in your avatar/signature, i automatically think less of you.

  4. #44
    Can anyone post some Arms parses from beta here?

    I actually like what I'm seeing as far as talents/abilities/rotation goes on beta so far. What I am not sure is the damage output.

    On target dummy I do comparable damage to my DK. Unfortunately this doesn't include execute phase for both, so I can not even get a rough estimate, even though it looks with execute phase Warrior dps should be higher.

    Thanks.

  5. #45
    Hi. Please update the first post. The rotation is not sufficient for maximum DPS output, but rather a short fight with no more than 5 to 10 GCDs - refer here. Besides the 7.5% Hit and Expertise requirement, Strength vs. Crit will be valuable for Arms (numbers aren't locked down yet).

    Thanks.

  6. #46
    Nice first setup. Compared to the fury guide, this one needs some work.
    What other guides do you arms people use? Icy Veins has some other advices than what's written here.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    Introduction
    Taste for Blood has been reworked. With the removal of Rend, Mortal Strike now procs your Overpower. In addition to that, whenever you use Overpower, there is a 30% chance to allow you to use Overpower again. Each time this happens, you will gain a stack to the Taste for Blood buff which will increase the damage of your next Heroic Strike or Cleave by 100%. This can only stack up to 5 times and will last for 9 seconds. Whenever a stack is gained, the time frame on the buff will be refreshed back to 9 seconds.
    Needs to be edited. Buff now lasts 15s, not 9.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    Playing The Warrior

    • Rotation
    The rotation in Mists of Pandaria isn’t all that different compared to the rotation in Cataclysm. A few notable things that have changed are:
    • No more stance dancing!
    • Rend is now gone and has been replaced with Deep Wounds
    • Sweeping Strikes is now similar to Blade Flurry. Instead of being a cleave that can be used once every minute, the cooldown and duration has been reduced to 10 seconds. You can now have a 100% up time on it.
    • Slam now no longer has a cast time and can only be used when specced as Arms.

    The priority list is as follows:

    1. Colossus Smash (with no debuff up)
    2. Dragon Roar
    3. Mortal Strike
    4. Execute
    5. Overpower
    6. Heroic Strike (if 2+ stacks of Taste for Blood)
    7. Slam
    8. Heroic Strike (0 stacks of Taste for Blood)
    9. Colossus Smash (with debuff up, no other abilities available, and no rage for Slam or Heroic Strike)
    Please do add a note on the specific mechanics of TFB and how to optimally use it, as this has been a hotly debated topic for quite a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    Level 70 Talents
    These too are situational talents. Vigilance could be used both as a cooldown on a tank and as an ability to get an easy Enrage every 2 minutes. Safeguard is a great talent to help with someone that will be needing a damage reduction cooldown, and Mass Spell Reflection is very situational, but could be useful on fights where Spell Reflect works.
    Slight edit. Vigilance no longer allows us to Enrage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    Level 90 Talents
    On most fights, you will be wanting to choose Avatar. The extra rage bonus is way too good, and the damage increase is great, too. Bloodbath needs to be tested more, but I can see it being a great ability paired with Bladestorm on AoE oriented fights.
    Bloodbath is currently superior to Avatar for most fights, but Avatar is probably required in certain fights for better burst.

    • If your cooldowns are close to coming back up, try to delay Dragon Roar and use it once you have your cooldowns rolling with Colossus Smash up. You will deal a lot of damage.
    Needs to be edited as DR now ignores all Armor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    • If your tank isn't taking a lot of damage and you don't need to use it as a cooldown, use Vigilance to get a free Enrage.
    Again, no more free Enrages from Vigilance.

  8. #48
    Hi Seramore

    I compiled a list of BiS gear on my realm forums with links/boss drops. Feel free to use it if you feel it can add to your existing BiS list. From top to bottom is BiS if there is more than one entry. The secondary ones just show comparable (But usually suboptimal) options



    Head

    Sightfinder Helm
    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81274

    Siege of Niuzao Temple
    Commander Vo'jak


    Meteoric Greathelm

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=85179

    Mogu'shan Palace
    Trial of the King

    Neck

    Cloudstrike Pendant

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81180

    Shao-Pan Monastery
    Gu Cloudstrike

    Shoulder



    Serpentstrike Shoulderpads

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81070

    Temple of the Jade Serpent
    Liu Flameheart

    Acid-Scarred Spaulders

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81098/ac...rred-spaulders

    Gate of the Setting Sun
    Striker Ga'dok

    Back

    Cloak of Failing Will

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81129/cloak-of-failing-will

    Temple of the Jade Serpent
    Sha of Doubt

    Chest


    Riverbed Chestguard

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81083

    Temple of the Jade Serpent
    Wise Mari

    Hateshatter Chestplate

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81187

    Shado-Pan Monastery
    Taran Zhu

    Wrist

    Commanding Bracers

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81694

    Scarlet Halls
    Houndmaster Braun

    Bracer's of the Fallen Crusader

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81572

    Scarlet Monastery
    Thalanos the Soulrender

    Gloves

    Dark Blaze Gauntlets

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=82856

    Lilian Voss
    Scholomance

    Waist

    Binding of Broken Dreams

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81130

    Temple of the Jade Serpent
    Sha of Doubt

    Grenadier's Belt

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81190

    Gate of the Setting Sun
    Saboteur Kip'tilak


    Legs

    Pyretic Legguards

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=82812

    Scarlet Halls
    Flameweaver Koegler

    Boots

    Anchoring Sabatons

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81284

    Siege of Niuzao Temple
    Wing Leader Ner'onok

    Spike-Soled Stompers

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81113

    Shado-Pan Monastery
    Sha of Violence

    Finger

    Blade Trap Signet

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=85188

    Mogu'shan Palace
    Xin the Weaponmaster

    Firefinger Ring

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81561

    Scarlet Monastery
    Brother Korloff

    Trinkets

    Carbonic Carbuncle

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81138

    Stormstout Brewery
    Yan-Zhu the Uncasked

    Lessons of the Darkmaster

    Darkmaster Gandling
    Scholomance



    Weapons

    Two Hand

    Warmace of Taran Zhu

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=80936

    Shadow-pan Monastery
    Taran Zhu

    Gravetouch Greasword

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=82822

    Instructor Chillheart
    Scholomance

    Goresoaked Handreaper

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=82824

    Rattlegore
    Scholomance


    Mograine's Immaculate Might

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=88278

    Scarlet Halls
    Flameweaver Koegler

    The Gleaming Ravager

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=88272

    Scarlett Halls
    Armsmaster Harlan

    Lightbreaker Greatsword

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81577

    Scarlet Monastery
    High Inquisitor Whitemane

    One-Hand


    Inelava, Spirit of Inebriation

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87545

    Stormstout Brewery
    Yan-Zhu the Uncasked

    Dubious Handaxe

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81063

    Temple of the Jade Serpent
    Sha of Doubt

    Ook's Hozen Slicer

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=81061

    Stormstout Brewery
    Ook-Ook

  9. #49
    So I was poking around some armories today to see what kind of talents and glyphs other warrior were picking and I noticed something interesting.

    Landsoul is using Glyph of Overpower.
    The glyph has this effect: Cleave hits increases the damage of your next Overpower by 20%.

    Now at first I thought maybe this wasnt the glyph he uses for raiding and maybe he was testing some stuff, because to be honest I have removed cleave from my bars all together in my Arms spec. But then I started thinking about it and maybe it does provide some kind of damage increase (although if it is worthy of a glyph slot I do not know).

    To start with lets compare heroic strike and cleave as rage dumps.

    Heroic Strike costs 30 rage (25 in t13) and causes 110% weapon damage + 619.
    Cleave costs 30 rage and causes 82% weapon damage.

    It seems clear that heroic strike would be the obvious rage dump to use, but if you look at a HS + OP vs a Cleave + OP they are much closer than you would expect when you use the glyph.

    HS + OP: 110% + 619 + 120% = 230% + 619
    Cleave + OP: 82% + (120% * 1.2) = 226%

    So it is much closer but you also have the added benefit when using cleave as a rage dump that you will not drop your Taste for Blood stacks. It may not happen often during an encounter but sometimes you can be about to rage cap and still have over 6 seconds on taste for blood but because your rage capped you are forced to rage dump using a HS or Cleave. So by using cleave as a dump in those situations you buff your next overpower which brings the total damage closer to a HS but you also preserve your taste for blood stacks which is a dps gain. This is also assuming 100% single target, if you throw 1-2 more targets in the mix and your cleave is hitting those as well then it seems like Landsoul may be on to something.

    So what do you guys think?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by PikminPC View Post
    HS + OP: 110% + 619 + 120% = 230% + 619
    Cleave + OP: 82% + (120% * 1.2) = 226%

    So it is much closer but you also have the added benefit when using cleave as a rage dump that you will not drop your Taste for Blood stacks. It may not happen often during an encounter but sometimes you can be about to rage cap and still have over 6 seconds on taste for blood but because your rage capped you are forced to rage dump using a HS or Cleave. So by using cleave as a dump in those situations you buff your next overpower which brings the total damage closer to a HS but you also preserve your taste for blood stacks which is a dps gain. This is also assuming 100% single target, if you throw 1-2 more targets in the mix and your cleave is hitting those as well then it seems like Landsoul may be on to something.

    So what do you guys think?

    I think it's an interesting idea and at first glance it actually makes a lot of sense. Won't say too much incase someone smarter than me decides to debunk it. But yeah, cool catch.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by PikminPC View Post
    HS + OP: 110% + 619 + 120% = 230% + 619
    Cleave + OP: 82% + (120% * 1.2) = 226%
    Very interesting. I'll have to pass this information on to my guildies, this is probably something to look into for sure.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by PikminPC View Post
    So I was poking around some armories today to see what kind of talents and glyphs other warrior were picking and I noticed something interesting.

    Landsoul is using Glyph of Overpower.
    The glyph has this effect: Cleave hits increases the damage of your next Overpower by 20%.

    Now at first I thought maybe this wasnt the glyph he uses for raiding and maybe he was testing some stuff, because to be honest I have removed cleave from my bars all together in my Arms spec. But then I started thinking about it and maybe it does provide some kind of damage increase (although if it is worthy of a glyph slot I do not know).

    To start with lets compare heroic strike and cleave as rage dumps.

    Heroic Strike costs 30 rage (25 in t13) and causes 110% weapon damage + 619.
    Cleave costs 30 rage and causes 82% weapon damage.

    It seems clear that heroic strike would be the obvious rage dump to use, but if you look at a HS + OP vs a Cleave + OP they are much closer than you would expect when you use the glyph.

    HS + OP: 110% + 619 + 120% = 230% + 619
    Cleave + OP: 82% + (120% * 1.2) = 226%

    So it is much closer but you also have the added benefit when using cleave as a rage dump that you will not drop your Taste for Blood stacks. It may not happen often during an encounter but sometimes you can be about to rage cap and still have over 6 seconds on taste for blood but because your rage capped you are forced to rage dump using a HS or Cleave. So by using cleave as a dump in those situations you buff your next overpower which brings the total damage closer to a HS but you also preserve your taste for blood stacks which is a dps gain. This is also assuming 100% single target, if you throw 1-2 more targets in the mix and your cleave is hitting those as well then it seems like Landsoul may be on to something.

    So what do you guys think?
    Thats a very interesting thought but you still got to take in account what Glyph you must leave out in order to take OP Glyph - and the DPS you lose because of it. But the fact that it can maintin the TFB stacks... Very interesting.
    Definitly something to try out extensively.
    Last edited by Alianthos; 2012-08-29 at 12:12 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by PikminPC View Post
    So it is much closer but you also have the added benefit when using cleave as a rage dump that you will not drop your Taste for Blood stacks. It may not happen often during an encounter but sometimes you can be about to rage cap and still have over 6 seconds on taste for blood but because your rage capped you are forced to rage dump using a HS or Cleave. So by using cleave as a dump in those situations you buff your next overpower which brings the total damage closer to a HS but you also preserve your taste for blood stacks which is a dps gain. This is also assuming 100% single target, if you throw 1-2 more targets in the mix and your cleave is hitting those as well then it seems like Landsoul may be on to something.

    So what do you guys think?
    That is incorrect. Cleave also consumes the TFB buff. At least that is what the Taste for Blood tooltip says, I don't particularly remember if it affected Cleave as well.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    That is incorrect. Cleave also consumes the TFB buff. At least that is what the Taste for Blood tooltip says, I don't particularly remember if it affected Cleave as well.
    Yep just tested this in game. No way glyph of overpower is worth using unless I missed something else.

    EDIT: The cleave + overpower may still be stronger than a HS + overpower when the cleave hits 2 targets. But you are still giving up a glyph slot so depending on the glyphs you need for a certain boss it is hard to say if glyph of overpower is ever worth using.
    Last edited by PikminPC; 2012-08-29 at 04:37 PM.

  15. #55
    High Overlord Jaceo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikminPC View Post
    Yep just tested this in game. No way glyph of overpower is worth using unless I missed something else.

    EDIT: The cleave + overpower may still be stronger than a HS + overpower when the cleave hits 2 targets. But you are still giving up a glyph slot so depending on the glyphs you need for a certain boss it is hard to say if glyph of overpower is ever worth using.
    I posted this info and test in another thread.

    Taste for Blood does increase Cleave damage by 100% per stack just like Heroic Strike as of the current beta patch. Sweeping Strikes will apply Cleave damage from your main target but not the secondary target. Also Glyph of Overpower which now increases your Overpower damage by 20% after using Cleave. Overpower is in our top 3 sources of damage therefore a 20% increase to it along with Sweeping Strikes to another target would be a nice damage boost. You wouldn’t get this if you were to Heroic Strike.

    In game testing of Heroic Strike + TfB + Sweeping Strikes vs Cleave + TfB+ Glyph of Overpower Power + Sweeping Strikes

    Beta 5.0.4
    Gear: 463 Heroic Dungeon
    Hit: 7.5%
    Expertise: 7.5%

    Basic hit/crit tests without additional buffs/debuffs/procs etc to try and keep the test for each strike variable free. Tested with 2x Taste for Blood Stacks as you will find yourself generally using HS/Cleave at 2-3 stacks.

    Buffs: Battle Shout, NO external buffs or trinket/enchant procs
    Debuffs: None, this includes not using Colossus Smash

    Heroic Strike with 0x Taste for Blood 22.8k hit 47.6k crit
    Heroic Strike with 2x Taste for Blood 61.1k hit 123.8k crit

    Cleave with 0x Taste for Blood 30.5k hit 78.1k crit
    Cleave with 2x Taste for Blood 98.4k hit 222.7k crit

    Now a full multi target (2 adds) "rotation" using Heroic Strike first and then Cleave over 3 minute sessions. See this Icy-Veins Arms Warrior Guide if you want to know the exact rotation/priority I followed. This includes using all self buffs and debuffs with the same gear and stats listed above. No Flasks, potions or food were used.

    Heroic Strike 71k DPS 12.9M over 3min.
    Cleave Strike 71k DPS 12.9M over 3min.

    Amazingly enough it doesn't really matter what we think should be better. The numbers show us that Sweeping Strikes + Heroic Strike + TfB is going to be close if not the same as Sweeping Strikes + Cleave + TfB + Glyph of Overpower. Cleave with Glyph of Overpower does more total damage vs Heroic Strike but once you factor in Sweeping Strikes things start to even out due to the full Heroic Strike damage being applied to 2x targets. What you loose in Cleave total damage you gain in Heroic Strike damage being Sweeping Strikes across to the additional target.

  16. #56
    Epic! Felarion's Avatar
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    Don't you guys think that arms became "clunky" in 5.x . I always catch myself waiting 1,5s for mortal...Maybe i do something wrong. Usually i go like this cs-mortal-op->op/slam. Also when i got more that 60 rage im using heroic strike.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Felarion View Post
    Don't you guys think that arms became "clunky" in 5.x . I always catch myself waiting 1,5s for mortal...Maybe i do something wrong. Usually i go like this cs-mortal-op->op/slam. Also when i got more that 60 rage im using heroic strike.
    Fury is even worse tbh

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Felarion View Post
    Don't you guys think that arms became "clunky" in 5.x . I always catch myself waiting 1,5s for mortal...Maybe i do something wrong. Usually i go like this cs-mortal-op->op/slam. Also when i got more that 60 rage im using heroic strike.
    Maybe that's because MS now has 6s cd and before it had 4.5 if im not mistaken.

    Previously i would only fit 2gcds between each MS and i now easily fit 3. Anyway i agree with the clunky "statement", spamming OP is not my idea of fun either.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Vailen View Post
    Fury is even worse tbh
    Fury always had some open gcd for something to use (like shouting hence why t12 bonus was much nicer for fury) becuase of the nature of enrage and bloodsurge.
    So its not uncommon ot that specc while its rather annoying for people used to arms.

  20. #60
    Epic! Felarion's Avatar
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    Well tbh for me fury is much better now. Nearly every bloodthirst i got something to push (wildstrikes from bloodsurge, maybe im slow but if i use 3 i gcd my bloodthirst, heroic strikes or of course raging blow ). Ill stick to fury right now, better playstyle for me.

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