Should drunk drivers be charged with murder if they cause a fatal accident?

[Brohoof]

Nope. You have to understand the literal definition of "involuntary". You can't go by what you feel like the meaning should be. It's not like the people going behind the wheel are thinking "Alright, I'm shit faced and I know it, so Imma go try to ram me someone to kill!"

You can say they might as well be saying that, but we're talking in a literal sense here. If a requisite for murder is to have the slaying be premeditated, then drunk driving does not constitute as part of that. Someone was (more than likely) killed involuntarily, without the drunk's planning or intention, thus involuntary manslaughter.

Manslaughter is manslaughter, just because they're drinking, it doesn't make them above the law.

[wtfPanzerkin]

I can't believe there's so much discussion about this. First off if you're drinking and driving you're already breaking a law and to willingly go on the road without thinking of the issues that may arise with a limited sense of awareness, you definitely should be considered guilty for killing someone, just like you should be charged if you ran someone over while sober! There's no difference here people...would it be considered ok if someone drove sober and killed someone? NO! They'd be sent to jail. The point is people...DONT DRINK AND DRIVE, there's a reason they made this law. Not only do you injure yourself but also others and even possibly death

No one is debating whether or not you should be prosecuted. The debate, if you can call it such, is over whether you should be charged for murder or manslaughter. Which, it's manslaughter for obvious reasons. And no, there's a huge difference between being drunk and sober.

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

Absolutely.

[apepi]

Either 3rd degree murder or Criminal Vehicular Homicide. The person drive drunk with the possibility to get someone hurt knowingly, you do not have to have an intent to hurt someone.
http://www.nvo.com/beaulier/minnesot...icideoffenses/

[Jeina]

If you willingly get behind the wheel while intoxicated knowing full well what might happen then I think there is intent. You intend to drive with no regard for anyone else on the road.

The same could be said for people who talk on the phone, text on the phone, and fix their make-up while driving. Should they be labeled as murderers if they kill someone in an accident?

[Lilfrier]

Now I'll clarify that I don't think it should be considered murder. Just because you know that you could hurt someone, is does not mean that you are acting with the intent of killing someone. When a soldier goes into battle, he knows that a civilian could possibly get hurt or killed, no? Does that mean if there is a firefight between the Taliban and American forces, and an American hit a civilian in the area whil firing upon an enemy soldier, he should be charged with murder? I would say not. Knowing that there are negative consequences is different from having a desire to commit an act.

When a guy cheats on his wife, he knows he might get caught. Does that mean he is cheating on his wife, with the intention of getting caught? No, it really doesn't. I think that something in the range of 10-15 years is about fair. I also believe this because DUIs are not the only source of driving-related deaths. If you forget to check the wear on your brakes, your car goes through the intersection, and you kill someone as a result, is THAT murder? It sounds an awul like we're trying to turn all accidental deaths involving driving into murder, in my opinion, and I think that the key is that murder is done with malicious intent, while manslaughter is done out of a careless act, but without intent.

[wtfPanzerkin]

The same could be said for people who talk on the phone, text on the phone, and fix their make-up while driving. Should they be labeled as murderers if they kill someone in an accident?

Actually, it's not intent. It's recklessness. Recklessness is ignoring the obvious danger in what you're doing. It could also be considered as knowingly as well. Knowingly is when you know what you're doing is wrong but do it anyways. Intent is you are doing something intentionally for a specific outcome. As others and myself have said already, few, if anyone goes out, gets drunk, and gets behind a wheel impaired with the thought process of "I'm going to try and kill someone". They're being reckless because they're ignoring the obvious danger of driving while intoxicated.

[Wynnyelle]

The same could be said for people who talk on the phone, text on the phone, and fix their make-up while driving. Should they be labeled as murderers if they kill someone in an accident?

I'm all for locking away idiots for a long time for doing something so stupid. People fail to realize that they are driving a huge piece of machinery and it requires their attention so that they don't hurt or kill someone. I know that since driving is an everyday thing, people don't take it as seriously as they should, but it's the same idea, in my mind. If you are stupid and cause somebody's death, you deserve to be punished heavily for it.

[s_bushido]

There's no difference here people...would it be considered ok if someone drove sober and killed someone? NO! They'd be sent to jail.

Um. I'm pretty sure you have to be considered to be driving recklessly to qualify for something like involuntary manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide. Assuming you're talking about an accident and not a pissed off person running down his/her spouse on purpose.

[Sayier]

No matter how you spin it the person driving a car drunk did not get into the car with the intention to kill someone. Which makes it not murder. I'm not trying to say they should get off easier. Drunk drivers should definitely be getting harsher sentences especially if it ends in a death, but it shouldn't be a murder charge.

[Wynnyelle]

No matter how you spin it the person driving a car drunk did not get into the car with the intention to kill someone. Which makes it not murder. I'm not trying to say they should get off easier. Drunk drivers should definitely be getting harsher sentences especially if it ends in a death, but it shouldn't be a murder charge.

I guess that's what I was really getting at. Because involuntary manslaughter is such a lesser charge compared to say, first degree murder. I suppose what I really meant is: Should drunk drivers get a sentence equal to that of a murderer's sentence? Since, if you want to get technical about it, if there's no intent, then it's not murder.

[OneSent]

Apparently, causing the death of another human being through shear stupidity isn't the same as killing someone with intent, even though the outcome is the same: Someone dies.

So what do these people say in court when they speak to the Judge?

Judge: "You were driving drunk, and you killed someone. How do you plea?"
Drunk Driver: "Not guilty, I didn't mean to kill them!"
Judge: "But you were driving drunk, you knew there was a chance it could happen."
Drunk Driver: "Yeah, but I didn't think it actually would."
Judge: "......"

How does that hold up, honestly?

[cFortyfive]

No. I do think though that the sentence should be at the very least close to that.

[Gizmo89]

The textbook definition of murder isn't necessarily the legal definition. In the US, most jurisdictions recognize the four degrees of murder. Only one of which describes murder as the intent to kill. First degree is premeditated murder. Second is intent to do bodily harm resulting in accidental death. Third is accidental death resulting from someone's recklessness. Fourth is murder committed by an Accomplice during the commission of, attempt of, or flight from certain felonies

They made a conscience decision to get wasted, knowing the consequences and effects of alcohol.
They made a conscience decision to get behind the wheel, knowing that it is both illegal and extremely dangerous.
Their negligence has caused the death of a human being.

This is at least third-degree murder, no matter how you look at it.

[Marc7]

There is a definite difference between premeditated murder and drunk driving. Seriously. Not to say that they don't both suck.

[Deleted]

No, in my oppinion it's not murder. It is stupid as fuck tho, and I don't know why you would drive drunk unless it's a very serious emergency.

So unless you get drunk and decide "it's time to fucking smash some people with my car", then it's imo involuntary manslaughter. Having to live with that is also a punishment in itself.

If there's no intent of murder, then there's no murder. It's quite simple.

[Wondercrab]

Absolutely not. There's a very different mindset between people who are just stupid and negligent (and not even necessarily on a regular basis, it only takes one slip up) and those that intentionally make the effort to kill someone.

Blanket definitions are rarely a good thing, there are already several different definitions of "taking another person's life" for a very good reason.

[Drakain]

I was surprised to learn that it isn't a frequent occurrence that drunk drivers get charged with murder. They normally get charged with involuntary manslaughter because it isn't premeditated. That just doesn't seem right to me. When you get behind the wheel of a car, knowing that you are intoxicated and not capable of being functional, you are showing a total disregard for human life, and if you kill somebody because you weren't responsible enough to get a designated driver to take you home, then you deserve to be charged with murder.

What do you guys think? Is it murder?

It depends. It might be murder. At best, it's manslaughter.

[artemishunter1]

yes, though depends on what situation. People have the choice to have designated driver while getting drink in the club (they are not intoxicated before they got their drinks) or they could have simply taken the alchohol with them in their homes. They willingly chosed to put other people in danger. There was will to it.

[Jeina]

Apparently, causing the death of another human being through shear stupidity isn't the same as killing someone with intent, even though the outcome is the same: Someone dies.

So what do these people say in court when they speak to the Judge?

Judge: "You were driving drunk, and you killed someone. How do you plea?"
Drunk Driver: "Not guilty, I didn't mean to kill them!"
Judge: "But you were driving drunk, you knew there was a chance it could happen."
Drunk Driver: "Yeah, but I didn't think it actually would."
Judge: "......"

How does that hold up, honestly?

The same way as if you kill someone by accident. Just the act of driving a car means there is a chance you could kill someone that day, drunk or not.