Ideas on Talents for Retribution

[Cronosmash]

So I'm going to spin some thoughs about Retriution's skills in general. I play PVP mostly, but I play Protection on PVE also. I'll just make some change sugestions - they might be buffs, but I'm looking to make the gameplay more interesting and cut of no brainers. Some of those ideas I got from reading a LOT of the posts in both Blizz forum and MMO-Champion forum, so thanks guys for the awasome ideas and point of view.

Then I want you to do the same, post some ideas, complaints, etc.


Speed of Light: 45 sec CD is STILL a long CD. Make it 20sec, and reduce the speed to 60% or 50% and remove snares. The way it is, it's just usefull to run away from trouble since we can't rely on it to close a gap to someone.

Fist of Justice: Switch names, icon and sound with Hammer of Justice that is way much cooler.

Repentance: WTF, 15 sec CD? Make Repentance as it is (1.5 sec cast and 15 sec CD) a BASELINE spell and Talent it to remove CD or make it instant. Or else, if the problem is pallys spamming Rep, just make it a 8 sec CD... this nerf is HUGE, there's no way this can keep up.

Burden of Guilt: Make it a instant root skill (maybe in area?) with some (short) CD or make it reduce moviment for 80% or so, becouse the way it is I'll just swap to Seal of Justice when I need a slow. I can see nobody even considering this... maybe tanks to kite some boss, but even that, wtf?

Eternal Flame: Make it INCLUDED in the passive healing buff of Sword of Light and Guarded by the Light - I think it suposed to be there but since it's not on tooltip... let's just hope they forgot or it's a bug. And make it not stealable or we'll avoid it just becouse it can screw us up really bad in PVP.

Sacred Shield: Buff the absorv or make it tic faster. Probably just a little of both. People are still going too much for Selfless Healer.

Hand of Purity: I cannot believe this is STILL here. If it were a AREA buff for RBGs to defend againt dotcleave then there whould be another reason to take it besides a 1x1 against a lock/moonkin/spriest or a PVE boss with heavy dot. Make it a cleanse for all the dots/debuffs, make it some kind of aura that heals and deal damage in area or maybe a mix of the Devotion with Retribution Aura, or anything else. I can make a huge list of ideas better then a hand that cut 70% dot damage for 6 secs. Or at least make it 15 secs, the way it is, NOBODY wants it.

Divine Purpose: Make a smaller chance and proc it when we generate holy power. That way it'll be interesting. I know some guys don't like the random factor, but the talent is for people who do like. The way it is, for PVP is off the table (except for holy, maybe). The live version of it is fun, I guess if it proc when we generate it'll solve the problem that make it unwanted.

Holy Prism: Let's start saying that it NEEDS A BETTER ANIMATION, OK? Give it to the guy that made the monk spell animations, he knows what to do. OK, now, this spell is OK. I guess it can be nerfed a little and made to generate holy power.

Light's Hammer: Nice one. Just make it and area knockdown or knockout (OK to be a small effect) so we can enjoy it without the problem of people just stepping out of it. I know tanks (as a tank too) whould love it too.

Execution Sentence: I dunno WTF makes people like it so much other than the fact that you can use it and leave it untill a minute later. This deals 65k damage that scales so it can be healed. Sounds fun, but it makes people able to take action before it bursts. And that's not just it: it doesn't have the healing effect that the other spells do, but that could be OK if it dealt more damage. What? 65k is not enough? Nopz. Light's Hammer deal 45k damage AND heals the same in AREA. So if 3 people stays in it for the half time we do about the same, plus healing. Holy Prism deals 25k every 20 secs. That's 100k per minute. Not to mention the 80k healed in the same minute. Not to mention it's AoE. Not to mention the use of it to defend cap bases in BGs and uncover rogues/druids/mages. If I'm wrong here at some point, PLEASE tell me and show where I got wrong. Please. The downside of the Prism is it takes up our GCD and make us go nuts becouse of the already long list of priorities and rotation. Other than that, to me is almost a no brainer and Execution Sentence is a no-way.


I know all I'm saying here is stuff that can buff us. It's not about that. It's about changing six for half a dozend that can make the talent choices more interesting, the game play more customisable and therefore the game more fun to play. If some ideas whould get too OP, than it can scale down the numbers to make it match. Either way, these are talents that have too much or almost no interest.

Another important thing. I can be stupidly WRONG about EVERYTHING here. If I said something stupid or skipped anything, PLEASE speak up. I whould appreciate a lot any feedback.

Tnx guys.

[UnderworldSoup]

Speed of Light: 45 sec CD is STILL a long CD. Make it 20sec, and reduce the speed to 60% or 50% and remove snares. The way it is, it's just usefull to run away from trouble since we can't rely on it to close a gap to someone.

Then take Long Arm of the Law? It's not the talent for you if you want your gap closer to act like one of the others in the tier. If it removed snares, the CD would have to be higher than it currently is (besides, we have Hand of Freedom already).

Repentance: WTF, 15 sec CD? Make Repentance as it is (1.5 sec cast and 15 sec CD) a BASELINE spell and Talent it to remove CD or make it instant. Or else, if the problem is pallys spamming Rep, just make it a 8 sec CD... this nerf is HUGE, there's no way this can keep up.

Talent Repentance and you have your stun as well as a disorient. Talent into your stun and you reduce the CD on your stun, but lose your disorient - if Repentance remained as it is on live, the talent would have little downside except on a team with another class that frequents disorient type moves (such as a Mage).

Burden of Guilt: Make it a instant root skill (maybe in area?) with some (short) CD or make it reduce moviment for 80% or so, becouse the way it is I'll just swap to Seal of Justice when I need a slow. I can see nobody even considering this... maybe tanks to kite some boss, but even that, wtf?

Burden of Guilt is a slow beyond the 100% movement speed, Seal of Justice simply limits their speed to being 100%. Burden of Guilt is way more effective but has less uptime.

Eternal Flame: Make it INCLUDED in the passive healing buff of Sword of Light and Guarded by the Light - I think it suposed to be there but since it's not on tooltip... let's just hope they forgot or it's a bug. And make it not stealable or we'll avoid it just becouse it can screw us up really bad in PVP.

I think you'll see it added soon - it wasn't added to Protection's mastery either, and that's a necessary change.

Sacred Shield: Buff the absorv or make it tic faster. Probably just a little of both. People are still going too much for Selfless Healer.

The shield is still undergoing change in every second patch so it's not quite tuned where they want it to be. It's still useful, especially from a Holy perspective.

Hand of Purity: I cannot believe this is STILL here. If it were a AREA buff for RBGs to defend againt dotcleave then there whould be another reason to take it besides a 1x1 against a lock/moonkin/spriest or a PVE boss with heavy dot. Make it a cleanse for all the dots/debuffs, make it some kind of aura that heals and deal damage in area or maybe a mix of the Devotion with Retribution Aura, or anything else. I can make a huge list of ideas better then a hand that cut 70% dot damage for 6 secs. Or at least make it 15 secs, the way it is, NOBODY wants it.

"Nobody"? It's the one I'll be taking on that tier for anything that doesn't explicitly require one of the others.

Holy Prism: Let's start saying that it NEEDS A BETTER ANIMATION, OK? Give it to the guy that made the monk spell animations, he knows what to do. OK, now, this spell is OK. I guess it can be nerfed a little and made to generate holy power.

If this move were to generate a point of Holy Power then it would instantly be the most desired on the tier. The others would need a huge change to level up to that.

[Tangra]

"Burden of Guilt is a slow beyond the 100% movement speed, Seal of Justice simply limits their speed to being 100%. Burden of Guilt is way more effective but has less uptime."

That is not what Seal of Justice does in MoP.

[Deleted]

"Burden of Guilt is a slow beyond the 100% movement speed, Seal of Justice simply limits their speed to being 100%. Burden of Guilt is way more effective but has less uptime."

That is not what Seal of Justice does in MoP.

idd but judgement no longer proccs the seal as i understood it so burden of guilt is our only choice for a ranged snare, not to mention the advantage of being able to sue a more high damage seal than SoJ in PvP is also usefull.

[Citykid]

Then take Long Arm of the Law? It's not the talent for you if you want your gap closer to act like one of the others in the tier. If it removed snares, the CD would have to be higher than it currently is (besides, we have Hand of Freedom already).

Tiger's Lust

Requires Level 15



1 Chi

20 yd range



Instant

30 sec cooldown


Instantly clears the target of all immobilizing and movement impairing effects, and increases their movement speed by 70% for 6 sec.

[ipoststuff]

Burden of Guilt: Make it a instant root skill (maybe in area?) with some (short) CD or make it reduce moviment for 80% or so, becouse the way it is I'll just swap to Seal of Justice when I need a slow. I can see nobody even considering this... maybe tanks to kite some boss, but even that, wtf?

Except you need to be in melee range for soj to work.

BoG is one of the best slows in the game. Autoapplied from our instant ranged attack, Physical school, lasts 12 sec and you get to keep your dps seal.

SoJ procs from melee attacks only, Holy school (can be dispelled), lasts 8 sec.

The difference is huge. To me that tier seems balanced.

[UnderworldSoup]

Tiger's Lust
Requires Level 15
1 Chi
20 yd range
Instant
30 sec cooldown

Instantly clears the target of all immobilizing and movement impairing effects, and increases their movement speed by 70% for 6 sec.

Bad example. It costs a Chi which is a lot more valuable than the mana cost associated with Speed of Light. My point still stands that we already have a move for breaking snares on a considerably lower cooldown than this Monk technique and the necessary alternatives for movement speed that we require. There is plenty of choice, and plenty of options.

[Reith]

Talents are class-wide, so there can't be talents only for Retribution. :/

[Cronosmash]

I play as a Ret PVP mostly so I'm saying from this point of view. And the idea is to show that there is some mechanics that could improve.

Then take Long Arm of the Law? It's not the talent for you if you want your gap closer to act like one of the others in the tier. If it removed snares, the CD would have to be higher than it currently is (besides, we have Hand of Freedom already).

The point is that SoL cannot compete with the other 2. I can't find someone who says it have it advantages over the other 2 and it should be used for X gameplay. And if that is the case, we're going to cookie cutter talents again. That's what we're trying to avoid.

Talent Repentance and you have your stun as well as a disorient. Talent into your stun and you reduce the CD on your stun, but lose your disorient - if Repentance remained as it is on live, the talent would have little downside except on a team with another class that frequents disorient type moves (such as a Mage).

My point is that if we lose Rep, we stay too far behind. And nerf it so it gets more interesting to get another talent, is just not the way to go. We should have a nerfed version of Rep as baseline and a competitive one so we can choose from talent. We need more CC, or else we gonna lose utility.

Burden of Guilt is a slow beyond the 100% movement speed, Seal of Justice simply limits their speed to being 100%. Burden of Guilt is way more effective but has less uptime.

Actualy, BoG slow 50% and SoJ slow another 50%, making it a snare. I see your point, you got me there. Thanks, I didn't realise it worked that way =) Still I think a nerfed Rep should be a baseline so this set of talents get balanced.

"Nobody"? It's the one I'll be taking on that tier for anything that doesn't explicitly require one of the others.

Really? You're the only guy I seen wanting to get that, except from some especific battles with lots of dots. If Divine Protection was here I could see the dilema on choosing something, but a dot shield for 6 secs is not really exciting to me. Maybe becouse I'm a not a healer, can you tell me why is it important to get it?

If this move were to generate a point of Holy Power then it would instantly be the most desired on the tier. The others would need a huge change to level up to that.

True that... and we're already real tight on the GCD. I guess I said that becouse I feel there's no bit AW YEAH on the 90 tier talents. Not a great finisher nor a nice builder.


Besides, I think TV is not dealing enough damage. The way I measure, we're at 30k Exo, 20k Judge, 30k CS, 60k TV. If we crit Exo or CS, we deal as much damage as a TV. I mean, c'mon, this is a finisher for the titans sake. We build up 80k so we can finish 60k? Really? I'm tripping here?

Well... I think we need some of this stuff. What you guys think it whould make it all better not meaning OP our class?