Masterfrost PVP - Apparatus of Khaz'Goroth?

[Malgru]

Is this trinket worth using? Currently 2h masterfrost for RBGs with hc gurth, would it be worth using normal Apparatus for the mastery proc? Only using the Cata trinkets right now.

[Vereesa]

No. The Cataclysmic on-use trinket blows it (especially normal) out of the water.

P.S There's no such thing as "masterfrost" in PvP. If you're stacking anything other than mastery for Frost in PvP you're doing it wrong.

[Iysdexia]

I disagree.

[Cryptus]

I seen someone have a heroic AoKG equipped along with a heroic Soulshifter Vortex. They take a big hit on Res. But gain about 6150 mastery procs. And they use this primarily for their PVP set. I guess if you have the ability to get your hands on it without much trouble. Go for it, test it out yourself.

[Tehterokkar]

I seen someone have a heroic AoKG equipped along with a heroic Soulshifter Vortex. They take a big hit on Res. But gain about 6150 mastery procs. And they use this primarily for their PVP set. I guess if you have the ability to get your hands on it without much trouble. Go for it, test it out yourself.

Procs like Soulshifter Vortex are really RNG, it might proc during Kiting -> wasted proc. And Mastery only isn't as good against cloth wearers as it is against Mail/Plate wearers since Frost damage isn't reduced by Armor.

Strength proc trinkets are more beneficial in the long run.

Not saying OP can't toy around and see how it feels(I'd expect a nice damage boost against mail/plate).

[Tyrean]

Apparatus used to be good when you could use the pvp on str trinket at the same time. I could just destroy people with that and pillar up. Now there are two things going against apparatus, one is you can't stack the on use str trinket, and two the item level of the trinkets has gone up so much to make the proc less in comparison.

I have tested the apparatus with the str proc pvp trinket and it is the same damage as using the str proc trinket with the on use str trinket and you don't lose 400 resilience. I had not tested the vortex, but I imagine it would be roughly the same amount of damage.

The thing about the on use str trinket is it also affects your Necro stacks and oblits. However, honestly most of the time when I use that is when we have the big clashes at a node or over a flag and I just wait for the proc str trinket to proc with my fallen crusader then pop pillar and the on use str. Then I just spam howling blast baby! KM frost strikes with all that str will generally yield a KB with a quick switch.

I will have to try out the vortex and see how that goes...

[Cryptus]

I been thinking about this for a while now that I read about it, this is actually an interesting subject to test things on. Baseline is that it is true, STR does do good when you spam HB or FS. I always wanted to know how they stack up toward each other, str vs mastery, in terms of spell damage when it comes to PVP viability.

(e.g 100 str is it equal to 1% frost mastery damage bonus?)

Clearly in the end, I would imagine it would be best to get STR stacked up due to the fact it helps your melee overall (Auto attacks, necro strike, obliterate(if used)) also it stacks very well with your own abilities/buffs such as, Pillar of frost/fallen crusader. Which boosts your str up drastically and helps benefit all spell power and melee damage across the board

So in the end, you can either have very big HB/FS hits with stacking ton of mastery, or have an overall big damage boost by allowing yourself the option of just stacking lots of STR. You could always try to go with both if possible and you just want to try something different. Now this is all very poor theory crafting which contains no real facts to back it up. It is most likely all incorrect information too. But here is how I see it in a small nutshell.

Trinkets=

Apparatus:
380/400-+ str increase (passive)
2540 mastery increase (on use)

Cata victory:
480-+ res. (passive)
2400/2450-+ str increase (on use)

So total you would get about a 2800+ str, but on a different proc you will get 2540 mastery which stacked on what you already have (2000 for example what I have) I would get about 5500/5600-+ mastery which that alone would increase frost damage up to 59/61%-+. Just remember they share active timer, so you would either get one or the other at one time. Not both.

Just remember for this you would lose about 450-500 res. (3-4% damage reduction)

I guess if you go the way of Soulshifter Vortex in place of the Apparatus it would be something such as.

SS vortex:
600/700-+ stamina (passive)
2570-+ mastery (RNG)

Cata victory:
480-+ res. (passive)
2400/2450-+ str increase (on use)

I guess you would gain around 6-7k health in exchange for str (passive). But now you are going to rely on RNG for that mastery bonus which isn't anything new when it comes to Frost DK gameplay. RNG masters. But as for the 6-7k health which would in terms help with the lack of 400 res to an extent, behold poor paper math that is not detailed at all would show why it wouldn't be too devastating to have this PVE trinket equipped for testing purposes. So, lets say...

Two PVP trinkets equipped:
153,000 base health
45,000 random huge crit attack
46% damage reduction with res
24,300 total damage done to you from 45,000 random huge crit attack
128,700 remaining health

Soulshifter + one PVP trinket: (note: -480 res but +7,000 health)
160,000 base health
45,000 random huge crit attack
43% damage reduction with res
25,650 total damage done to you from 45,000 random huge crit attack
134,350 remaining health

So, that is just a simple write up math, not taking into consideration buffs, armor mitigation, spell mitigation abilities, etc...etc... You'll get hit slightly harder without the extra PVP trinket resilience, but the bonus health should hopefully make up for the loss of it.

I myself plan on trying out Soulshifter + Cata Trinket for the BG action. IF I can get a Apparatus, I'll definitely use both PVE trinkets and see what its like to have 7k mastery while running around flailing my arms with howling blasts. But there will be a huge drop of res, and a lot of reliability on proc. At times I'll have both proc'ed other times it will be one or the other.

Two PVE trinkets equipped:
+400 str (passive)
+6k stam (passive)
+5115 mastery (rng/proc)
-1k res = 7% damage reduction

160,000 base health
45,000 random huge crit attack
39% damage reduction with res
27,450 total damage done to you from 45,000 random huge crit attack
132,550 remaining health

I would say it sounds fun to try it out and see how it works out for you, I know for sure I am going to try it out for BG's just because the concept/idea itself is rather exciting to think about.

[Deleted]

I ran Heroic version very early on last season and imo it was complete garbage even then.
Gimmick trink that provides a minor dmg increase while sacrificing resi which frost dks cant afford.
If youre horny for burst, run Human racial+pre-season on use trink+this-season on use trink combined with Engineering gloves macroed into pillars.

[Atronius]

I ran Heroic version very early on last season and imo it was complete garbage even then.
Gimmick trink that provides a minor dmg increase while sacrificing resi which frost dks cant afford.
If youre horny for burst, run Human racial+pre-season on use trink+this-season on use trink combined with Engineering gloves macroed into pillars.

I totally agree. The trinket was always garbage. If were talking mastery trinkets, H Soulshifter is boss, its just that Ive never liked proc trinkets in pvp. PvP is more "on demand" . Tbh I really switch trinkets alot. If were im coming into alot of horde, I'll throw on my Heroic Eye and leave a on use str trinket, i.e. the pvp static resi and on use str, and the valor trinket. Between 2 on use str trinkets, my glove tinker, and pillar if you're frost, u will have 3 diff on use abilities when u run across any horde, plus a pillar on every other use. Just my 2 cents.

[Tyrean]

engineering gloves go on cooldown when you use trinkets... and you can't use two on use trinkets at the same time....

[Wih]

I thought for double trinkets you had the on use and proc trinket, and you waited for the proc to trigger, and then hit your on use.

[Tyrean]

I thought for double trinkets you had the on use and proc trinket, and you waited for the proc to trigger, and then hit your on use.

That is true. For really strong burst you wait for the proc trinket to line up with fallen crusader then you use pillar and your on use. That is +35% STR with 3871 STR. It amplifies the trinkets greatly.

What he said though was

If youre horny for burst, run Human racial+pre-season on use trink+this-season on use trink combined with Engineering gloves macroed into pillars.

I cannot say for certain as I have not tested it, but I am almost certain that you cannot use a past season on use with a current season on use. They should lock each other out. If not then everyone would carry multiple CC trinkets and just swap them out when they use their current one. Also using a trinket locks out engineering gloves, and using engineering gloves locks out a trinket. I just don't think that guy know what he is talking about.

[FearGX]

It was a godly trinket last season, but this season it is still ok, but there are way better trinkets out there. As others have said, for PvP you want to stack Mastery/Strength threw the roof.

[Cryptus]

This is true, having "On use" trinkets in PVP is what you want to aim for. Primarily because in PVE having proc based RNG trinkets is fine, since fights can last a very very long time. But in PVP there are instances where you need to throw it all out on the table for that last minute kill. The difference between not being able to kill someone in a global cool down, can be the determining factor of whether you win or lose.

[Tyrean]

This is true, having "On use" trinkets in PVP is what you want to aim for. Primarily because in PVE having proc based RNG trinkets is fine, since fights can last a very very long time. But in PVP there are instances where you need to throw it all out on the table for that last minute kill. The difference between not being able to kill someone in a global cool down, can be the determining factor of whether you win or lose.

Must be nice to play the version of arena/RBG play where you use your cooldowns to finish off a wounded target and get a kill instead of creating pressure and forcing mistakes that lead to a kill.

[Cryptus]

Must be nice to play the version of arena/RBG play where you use your cooldowns to finish off a wounded target and get a kill instead of creating pressure and forcing mistakes that lead to a kill.

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