Ret MoP Discussion Thread! (Be excited)

[Vayra]

I posted this in the Skill-Capped thread, just figured everyone here on the MMO forums might like a snip of my bad humor/opinions and maybe just a flare of discussion

"Hey everyone! The paladin forums seem a bit.. erm.. -pokes with a stick- dead. Slightly decaying at this point (wtb cleanse!).

Anyways enough of my bad humor!

I figure we could start a discussion on in MoP, focusing on Ret for this thread.

A small (sorta..) list of SEXY changes we have to look forward to in no particular order...

Holy Power Generation: Holy power will be VERY fluid! What do i mean? They took our T13 2set, rolled it into our talent spec AND spiced up exorcism with the same thing. That is right.. You get Holy power every time you Judgment.... Crusader Strike.. AND Exo..

Wings is UN-DISPELABLE!!!!!!

Word of Glory got an overhaul. No long has a cool down, but we lose our Selfless healer and last word (+65% crit chance sub 35% hp and +50% healing on others). This is a GOOD thing. Why? We arn't OP with a crutch mechanic anymore. This allows them to give us more utility without making us over powered.

Speaking of more utility...

CC: We have the MOST SEXY CC TALENT TIER EVER!! We have the choice between either... an undispelible 50% slow with our judgment (those hunters that kite you around laughing? remember them? well they better remember you.. when you're smashing your 2h sword into their FACE! ) An improved HoJ, shorter CD longer stun (ehh..) and Repentance. Rep got a but of a face lift. It is now on a cast time, recently nerfed to have a 15sec cd. It's basically a pollymorph with a cd atm. All are appealing choices, and the great thing is you can pick which one you want depending on your comp. Running a stun heavy comp without a slow? grab the slow! Not that many stuns? Grab Fist and smash people in the throat- you get the idea.

MOARCC: Blinding Light.... A...O..E.. frickin blind.... we get an AOE 5second Blind.. NOMNOMNOMNOM. Rogue kidney> bombs you with his warrior buddy? Pftt Trinket > Blinding Light > waddle out of said bomb. Running with a rogue.. mage.. or something else that shares DR with it? You can Glyph it (Unless this changed recently) to reduce the duration on it but make it an AOE Stun. also this is BASELINE. No choosing this over another talent. Side note, as playing holy and you see that priest coming to fear you? Blind his butt before he gets it off.

Utility: We get two beautiful additions to our tool-belt of doom. Self-less Healer and Hand of Purity. But wait! Nag you said Selfless healer was gone? It is.. it's dead and it will stay dead.. But here is it's twin brother! Basically it works like this, every time you judgment you get a buff. The reduces the cast time, mana cost and INCREASE the healing of Flash of Light, the extra healing only applies when used on another player. When stacked up to 3 you get a free, instant beefed up FoL on your friend. This is your old clutch WoG. It is also something extremely easy to balance. This will never be as out of control as our 120k Wings Wogs on live. But as we discussed before this is fine. This frees up more holy power to keep up inquisition and slam T.V into the enemy.

Almost forgot Hand of Purity! Yeah it's a 70% DoT reduction on a 1min CD. Screw you combustion.

Inquisition Change; With 3HP it increases our Holy Damage by 30% and our CRIT chance by 10%. Nomnom.

Glyph of Harsh Word: "Your Word of Glory can now also be used on enemy targets, causing Holy damage approximately equal to the amount it would have healed." At first this seems like an odd thing to be excited about. This is for holy right? for solo? WRONG! It will never hit as hard as TV, and nor should it. But we now have a RANGED Holy Power dump. We can now >Judge > Exo > judge > WoG. Though this isn't ideal, it allows up to have an even better offensive kiting style (warriors don't stand a chance in hell, not that they ever did before anyways) AND allows us to continue to dish out damage while being kited.

Sanctity of Battle: Now haste lowers the CD on judgment, hammer of wrath AND crusaders strike. Making out holy power even more consistent and making haste 100% more attractive.

Devotion Aura: Aura mastery on a 2min CD with 20% magic reduction tied in. This just adds to the utility a Ret can bring. It also can make it so we can Repentance without getting locked out. We can be very creative with this. If you're running with a caster you have the opportunity to give them ALOT of free-casting time between this and BoP. As well as making your healer's life easier.

Boundless Conviction: "You may store an additional 2 Holy power Beyond the 3 maximum. No ability ever consumes more than 3 holy power". Translation; we get to BAC-KLOAD two additional holy power. This is beyond amazing. I love blizzard for this change. What does this mean in practice though? Do you ever have moments on live right now where you want to TV, but you're afraid you will need a WoG soon? Who cares! you have two extra Holy Power saved and ready after you slam that priest in the face for 1000k (slightly fabricated damage amount). This opens us up to a lot of different options with our holy power!


Glyph of the Falling Avenger: We get slow fall when we have wings up.. SWAG

Glyph of Righteous Retreat: When you bubble, your heartstone casts 50% faster. Bubble hearth in a glyph. Oh the nostalgia <3

Glyph of Bladed Judgment: Your Judgment spell depicts an axe or sword instead of a hammer, if you have an axe or sword equipped. SWAG

Glyph of Fire From the Heavens: Your Judgment and Hammer of Wrath criticals call down fire from the sky. SWAG

Glyph of Seal of Blood: Your Seal of Truth now uses the Seal of Blood visual. BC Nostalgia glyph.

Glyph of the Luminous Charger: Your Paladin class mounts glow with holy light. the swag continues.

Glyph of Avenging Wrath: While Avenging Wrath is active, you are healed for 1% of your maximum health every 2 sec. our Wings gives us a HoT. Yummy.

Glyph of Templar's Verdict: You take 10% less damage for 6 sec after dealing damage with Templar's Verdict. Straight dmg reduction on something we use consistently.

Glyph of Blinding Light: Your Blinding Light now knocks down targets for 3 sec instead of Blinding them. Discussed this with blinding light.

Glyph of Flash of Light: When you Flash of Light a target, it increases your next heal done to that target within 7 sec by 10%. This opens up some interesting combos because of selfless healer.. We could if really needed to Wings > Instant FoL > Wog for extreme healing.

Glyph of Winged Vengeance: Your Avenging Wrath depicts 4 wings. I have mixed feelings about this..

That about sums up what i have noticed so far! I'm really pumped for MoP. I love ret, always have and this just adds to my excitement for the class (i'll be playing my Pally as my main in MoP over my druid)

Note: THIS IS BETA!! ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE! THIS IS ALL MY OPINION! NOTHING IS FACT! THE CAKE IS A LIE!

Hope this sparks some form of a discussion =)

TLR Be very excited for MoP.. very.. very.. excited.. What we gain far out weighs what we lose.


-Nago "

[Aideren]

It seems like a lot of people are complaining about ret on the beta right now, but I'm finding it more fun and more fluid than on live with the holy power changes. We'll have to wait and see what else it to come but I'm definitely with you. MoP looks promising for rets.

[Devinser]

Yep, I'm quite hyped for Ret in MoP myself and that, of course, is a good thing. What's bad tho, is that whenever something goes great for Ret PvP, it, somehow, gets fixed. Sometimes even quite fast. Sometimes even "to the ground, baby!"...

Greg Street seems to hate Rets with a passion.

p.s.: that said, lets just keep it quite for now. Maybe he doesn't notice lol :-3

j/k, he'll notice...

[jangkun]

Yeah I like the changes too especially for Holy Power fluidity.

But you didn't talk about lots of talents:
LVL 75 choices:
Holy Avenger - Well it's our new Zealotry but twice better! why? Zealotry COST 3 HoPow and give us 3 after every CS. Holy Avenger is FREE and give us 3 HoPow after using Judgement / CS / Exo!! yeah Exo - TV - Judge - TV - CS -TV - EXO -TV in..7sec? 4 tv? haste reducing our global cd make this talent awesome. At first I found it OP and seeing nerf inc BUT while using Zeal we can be lucky and proc Divine Purpose for extra TV while in MoP we won't (other talent choice) so if they decide to nerf Holy Avenger..I think it will need to consume some HoPow like Zeal does atm (wont be that bad since it's a lot easyer to have HoPow in MoP).

Divine Purpose: Our abilities that consume HoPow have a 20% chance to give us free 3 HoPow. So TV or WoG can be ''free'' sometimes..20% isn't much. Some likes procs while some others prefer control (and will take Holy Avenger that has 3min cd). Some lucky people will get 3-4 Tv with Divine Purpose procing from itself while some other will see 1 proc every 2min (like i experienced on live). On ptr I saw someone procing DP very often and another one every 3-4 TV, again it's all luck!

Sanctified Wrath: Our Hammer of Wrath has no CD while using Wings (and they are undispellable now) so coud be good vs a ranged but the 2 others are pretty awesome.

LVL90 choices:
Holy Prism
Light's Hammer
Execution Sentence

I'm not on PTR and didn't test any of these so can't really talk about them, i'm sure someone will after my post


PS: While Holy Avenger you look like wielding Ashbringer instead of your normal weap! that 0.O love it!!!

[Vayra]

If i talk about EVERYTHING in the first post; then what is the point of a discussion?

The people crying on Beta are mostly about the loss of Sacred Shield (WoGs + Instant FoL make up for it imo) and the damage tuning they are doing. It seems like people don't understand the difference between NERFING and number tuning haha.

As for talents. I LOVE the new zel. My only quib (that is a word.. i think..) is that we have to choose between that and Divine Purpose.

**********When you use Holy Avenger you get a MOTHER F@*#ING ASHBRINGER WEP SKIN*******************

It's sorta like reforging into crit haha. It can pay off, but at the end of the day you're putting faith into pure RNG>

Sanctified Wrath was changed recently if i'm not mistaken. Instead of removing the CD of Holy shock (holy) judg (prot) and hammer (ret), it reduces the cd. This was due to the fact that holy was litteraly popping cds and spamming Holy Shock till you died and there was nothing you could do to stop it. (It was beautiful).

As for GC having it out for rets.. i mean come on, look at vanguards cleave They def showed us some love this expansion, and MoP will just add to the oodles of ret-ashbringing-facesmashing-goodness.

[blackblade]

An improved HoJ, shorter CD longer stun (ehh..)

I don't see what the hate is for Fist of Justice. It's a shorter CD HoJ, with double the range.

It's great for handling slippery classes who don't give to shits about snares, like druids and warriors who want to squish your teammate.

I think people don't realize it's got reach over HoJ.

Can see it being good for prot in 5mans, and holy/ret in pvp.

Haven't played too much ret in beta, is it less slot machine?

[Adominitis]

I don't see why other Ret's are complaining that the MoP changes are no better than what's on live. From personal experience questing I love the new changes. The glyphs are not a fancy smancy as I would like them to be but, they get the job done. The new holy power changes have been a major improvement to our spec and it allows a quicker way to generate HP. Overall the spec is less clunky and more fluid and on top of which it still does some pretty nice damage.

[Vayra]

Ohh im not disregarding it for everything haha. I'm going to be taking Fist over rep for Holy in 3s most likely. It's just with Ret the range isn't normally an issue. I'd rather have ANOTHER cc in addition to my HoJ than just making HoJ better.

If you take Rep you can literaly; Devo aura > Rep the healer > Blinding light the dps > If one of them trinkets HoJ them.

That is just my opinion. I guess it will all come down to preference haha.

[Malthanis]

Sanctified Wrath was changed recently if i'm not mistaken. Instead of removing the CD of Holy shock (holy) judg (prot) and hammer (ret), it reduces the cd. This was due to the fact that holy was litteraly popping cds and spamming Holy Shock till you died and there was nothing you could do to stop it. (It was beautiful).

It also bumps the duration of AW by 50%, I believe. Checking now...

Indeed it does. A full 30 seconds of AW every 3 minutes with this one.

[Vayra]

It also bumps the duration of AW by 50%, I believe. Checking now...

Oooo i just tested it on Beta...

You're right! That is sexy... Damn this is going to be a hard pick

[Malthanis]

You're right! That is sexy... Damn this is going to be a hard pick

Which is what they were aiming for, so mission accomplished.

[Vayra]

Oh i know haha. I mean in PvE it's going to depend on the fight and how the numbers pan out (not that you can really asses RNG..)

But for PVP i think it's 100% going to come down to your play style and your comp, which is AWESOME.

[jangkun]

I personnally will never take Burden of Guilt (that makes your judge doing a 50% slow on target) since the new Seal of Justice does a 50% slow too! on melee attack sure but if you can't reach your target once with all our speed boost talent there'S a problem.
I'll take Fist of justice! longer range and shorter cd! repentance is ok but I really dont like the 1.5sec cast, will be better for Holy.

[Vayra]

I personnally will never take Burden of Guilt (that makes your judge doing a 50% slow on target) since the new Seal of Justice does a 50% slow too! on melee attack sure but if you can't reach your target once with all our speed boost talent there'S a problem.
I'll take Fist of justice! longer range and shorter cd! repentance is ok but I really dont like the 1.5sec cast, will be better for Holy.

The only issue with useing Seal of Justice is you can't use Seal of Truth. Which is a HUGE dps loss =/ but i guess it is a viable option if you 100% need it.

And i agree about rep. It's a scary thought getting locked out. Also Judg counts as a spell now so all you can really do is Crusader Strike and TV! D:

[Xanda]

The only issue with useing Seal of Justice is you can't use Seal of Truth. Which is a HUGE dps loss =/ but i guess it is a viable option if you 100% need it.

Not really.

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/20170-seal-of-justice

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/42463-seal-of-truth

You pratically lose only a dot (no more stackable if kited because only applied through melee attacks).

[Vayra]

The Dot is significant haha

[Aldoran]

first 4 tiers of talents are utter crap - nothing interesting for pve:
1 cc, run speed, run speed, run speed, run speed, some utility for hands... seriously? yah, it may be usefull occasionly, but that is not what i expected
and 6 sweet talents in last 2 tiers from wich you need to pick just two..

and where are defensive talents?! even if all such effects were merged into telents/spec - they removed all choise from our hands (
fuck this talent sytem, i want old good spec trees to come back (

skills changes and glyphs are very interesting, but i can not stand what they did with talent trees

[Deleted]

I haven't really been keeping up to date on the beta (I have the pass too!) but after reading this, good god MoP hurry up and get in my PC!

[Whitewind]

Not happy at all PVE wise lvl 75 and 90 talents are the only interesting ones and i get to get 2 GG

[Vayra]

first 4 tiers of talents are utter crap - nothing interesting for pve:
1 cc, run speed, run speed, run speed, run speed, some utility for hands... seriously? yah, it may be usefull occasionly, but that is not what i expected
and 6 sweet talents in last 2 tiers from wich you need to pick just two..

and where are defensive talents?! even if all such effects were merged into telents/spec - they removed all choise from our hands (
fuck this talent sytem, i want old good spec trees to come back (

skills changes and glyphs are very interesting, but i can not stand what they did with talent trees

Runspeed means you don't need a speed increase on your boots (win).

CC tree is something that isn't suppose to really help in PvE. Unless you count rep in 5 mans. Why complain about this though? That's like complaining that we have HoJ as an ability because it's "useless in pve".

Some utility for hands? mmm 70% DoT reduction is HUGE, and is going to be a god sent for any fight that has DoT mechanics. Ontop of that double Hand of Sac will do wonders, especially on progression fights.

"The removed all the choise" i'm assuming you mean choice, and we never had it. On live you have one spec. If that spec isn't the cookie cutter you're doing it wrong. You go from having 31+ non-choice talents to have 6 tiers of legit choices. Do you like the passive run speed? Or do you want long arm while taking boot enchant? Do you need DoT protection or another Sac? a passive shield or a hot? AoE damage or direct damage?

Not every tier can be a straight up DPS increase. That would defeat the whole purpose, and you need to remember this is one talent tree that covers 3 specs over all game play (pvp and pve).

You complain about not having defensive.. but selflesshealer + glyph of FoL allows us to (if needed) Instant Wings > Instant FoL > WoG. They give us a whole tier line DEDICATED TO DEFENSE UTILITY!!!!

I'd prefer more constructive input than "NOT ALL TALENTS ARE DPS INCREASES SO I HATE THIS".


Chalmerz your avatar is adorable btw :3 glad you're excited as well!

Whitewind that is two more choices than you current have on live (though i feel all of them are choices).