Thread: [Ret] Judgment?

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  1. #221
    He just said when they could get the coding sorted. I would hope that would be before the expansion releases but who knows with blizzard.

    TL;DR: Soon(tm)

  2. #222
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    But we all know that soon can mean never in blizzard language. Or in that case too late to have the time needed to test it and report bugs meaning releasing the game with one spec broken or bugged the same spec that was total crap at TBC launch, totally Over Powered à WOTLK launch and again totally broken at CATA launch.

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  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Vodalos View Post
    Does somebody know when the change concerning melee haste affecting SoB will be put on Beta ? GC said it's the intend but it's not on Beta actually and we don't even know if it will be put before MoP launch.
    I wouldn't panic until the next build or two, also the change kind of sucks in some ways since currently Seal of Insight buffs SoB by 10% due to it's casting haste, and this causes Seal of Insight to be a small dps loss for Ret, when you combine that with Glyph of Battle healer, Ret becomes a very nice off-healer in both PvP and PvE with only a small hit to dps.

    While we are gaining 5% haste for SoB due to the melee haste buff being bigger than the caster buff, they will just balance our dps around it...so we might gain nothing at all other than immunity to cast-time nerfing effects. Don't get me wrong, having casting slows completely destroy SoB would have been horrible, but I wish they had just made SoB immune to those effects and left it as it was.

  4. #224
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodalos View Post
    Does somebody know when the change concerning melee haste affecting SoB will be put on Beta ? GC said it's the intend but it's not on Beta actually and we don't even know if it will be put before MoP launch.
    I wouldn't worry about this until we start seeing release candidates for the beta servers. If it gets to that point and this code change hasn't been implemented, that's a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    While we are gaining 5% haste for SoB due to the melee haste buff being bigger than the caster buff, they will just balance our dps around it...so we might gain nothing at all other than immunity to cast-time nerfing effects. Don't get me wrong, having casting slows completely destroy SoB would have been horrible, but I wish they had just made SoB immune to those effects and left it as it was.
    That really wouldn't have changed anything, because our DPS is balanced around whatever SoB ends up granting us anyways. Also, making SoB 'immune' to spellhaste debuffs would be adding yet another exception to Ret's mechanics. It seems that it would be far easier to code SoB to work off of a different haste classification, than to make sure that every casting speed debuff doesn't effect SoB.

  5. #225
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Were way better off with SoB being Melee Haste but what they need to do now is bring back the Zealotry attack speed proc that stacked 3 times that we had in early beta that would be the proper way to make this spec work.
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  6. #226
    Yes, we are certainly way better off with SoB being melee haste based, however, it would have been nice to be able to use Seal of Insight without taking a major dps loss.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    Yes, we are certainly way better off with SoB being melee haste based, however, it would have been nice to be able to use Seal of Insight without taking a major dps loss.
    I think that's the point of the entire exercise: Seal of Insight is already missing the 14% extra damage and Censure from Seal of Truth. 10% casting haste, even if it did convert into straight 10% less cooldown on Crusader Strike, would still mean a major DPS loss, even if it resulted in marginally faster HP generation for HP-based heals. Still, the bottom line is: don't use Seal of Insight if you want to do damage at all.
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  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    I think that's the point of the entire exercise: Seal of Insight is already missing the 14% extra damage and Censure from Seal of Truth. 10% casting haste, even if it did convert into straight 10% less cooldown on Crusader Strike, would still mean a major DPS loss, even if it resulted in marginally faster HP generation for HP-based heals. Still, the bottom line is: don't use Seal of Insight if you want to do damage at all.
    Well of course, but considering how nice Glyph of Battle Healer can be for Ret, it would have been nice to be able to switch seals with less of a dps loss. On the PTR currently, since the SoB change is not in, using Seal of Insight lowers the cooldown of Crusader Strike by close to 0.4 seconds, and reduces the cooldown of Exorcism by over 2 seconds... I'm really enjoying having this option and it will be sad to lose it.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    I always thought it made sense for Strength users to get Crit from strength if it was their highest primary stat and parry if stam was their highest stat and be the same for agi. Crit for agi unless your highest stat was stam and the gain dodge from it. That way tanks were all effected the same way and dps classes were all effected the same way.
    The key problem with that is stamina should be everyone's highest stat... Given feral is no longer a tanking spec, there's no reason they can't just make it blood, prot, guardian = dodge/parry where appropriate, otherwise = crit.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    The key problem with that is stamina should be everyone's highest stat... Given feral is no longer a tanking spec, there's no reason they can't just make it blood, prot, guardian = dodge/parry where appropriate, otherwise = crit.
    Didn't you just contradict yourself?

  11. #231
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkiri View Post
    Didn't you just contradict yourself?
    He just said what I said using the new Tank classifications set forth in MoP
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  12. #232
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    OK, maybe I'm tripping balls here... but with this Exo nerf, I went on the training dummy and did a damage test:

    Exo: 28k
    Judge: 24k without physical vunerability and 29k with it. Plus stacking censure.

    So, I'm thinking about priorising Judge over Exo now. Am I nuts?

    ---

    On HA change, the 30% damage buff if I read right is just to the HP generating abilities. And I just tested and it's not working. Damage is the same with HA.

    ---

    Someone have to remake the math on Divine Purpose too, but I still think it's still hard to make it Ret PVP worth it.

    ---

    Eternal flame got even more nerfed, so it's off the table now (or someone tell me why it can be better then SS).

    ---

    On the bright side, if we sum up the buffs and nerfs we got a sweet 10% DPS nerf (being optimist on my estimate). Yey.

  13. #233
    High Overlord
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    that's not a "nerf" when a large amount of specs and classes is nerf equally. and Monk, warrior and DK are next.

    I'm french, I'm really sorry if my english is bad. I try to do my best.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Vodalos View Post
    Monk, warrior and DK are next.
    They better make resil affect Necro... the few DKs on beta that know how to use NS (with the rune changes) can get a 200k absorb in about 5 secs... that's NOT right.

    Anyway. Who else feels Holy Avenger is now a "MUST" for pvp? Goes against the "personal preference" mantra.
    "Remember that text is going to be how you make your first impression over the internet; if every third word you type is misspelled, people will automatically assume that you're a moron."- Cracked.com

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by bot v2.38beta View Post
    They better make resil affect Necro... the few DKs on beta that know how to use NS (with the rune changes) can get a 200k absorb in about 5 secs... that's NOT right.
    How's this any different than live? I can put a 130k absorb on you in 11 secs I think that's close to a whole life while your numbers seems to be about half, and I'll have you remember, MOP Healers are much stronger and can top you off in one critical fast cast.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    How's this any different than live? I can put a 130k absorb on you in 11 secs I think that's close to a whole life while your numbers seems to be about half, and I'll have you remember, MOP Healers are much stronger and can top you off in one critical fast cast.
    No. MOP healers are not the previous obviously-OP iteration of Windwalker Monks.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    How's this any different than live?
    Do I really need to explain how 5 GCDs is different than 11 GCDs or how a lot of CC/stun chains in arena last ~5 secs?

    OR do I need to explain how on live servers, resil affects the absorb amount of Necro BECAUSE it was too good in higher end arena when it wasn't affected?
    "Remember that text is going to be how you make your first impression over the internet; if every third word you type is misspelled, people will automatically assume that you're a moron."- Cracked.com

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by bot v2.38beta View Post
    Do I really need to explain how 5 GCDs is different than 11 GCDs or how a lot of CC/stun chains in arena last ~5 secs?
    OR do I need to explain how on live servers, resil affects the absorb amount of Necro BECAUSE it was too good in higher end arena when it wasn't affected?
    Only if I need to explain that 11 GCDs for a full health absorb is almost the same as 5GCDs half health absorb, they just changed the mechanic from Necrospam into Necroburst, which is better balance, in theory, save for Blood Tap having no cooldown, which I think is the core of the problem, not resilience.

    I've no idea what's the purpose of Point nº 2 is other than it being sort of an obvious transcript of a patch note...? I guess you're assuming resilience does not affect Necro in beta? I'm sure it does, maybe not the baseline resilience which is the newest addition, have you even tested it?

  19. #239
    Just did some testing on beta and live. I'll round down just to make the numbers prettier.

    Live: Necro is 9k per stack. I have 155k hp. 155000/9000=17.2
    So that's 17 stacks to get a "full hp absorb" on live realms.

    Beta: Necro is 60k per stack. I have 375k hp (full conq ret gear+weapon) 375000/60000=6.25
    That is about 6 stacks to get a "full hp absorb" as it is atm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    How's this any different than live?
    You're right, it's the same thing...granted my numbers were off in my first post.


    PS. It does seem to be affected by resil, BUT NOT enough, unless they really want to go back to "binary pvp"
    Last edited by bot v2.38beta; 2012-08-09 at 09:45 AM.
    "Remember that text is going to be how you make your first impression over the internet; if every third word you type is misspelled, people will automatically assume that you're a moron."- Cracked.com

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by bot v2.38beta View Post
    It does seem to be affected by resil, BUT NOT enough
    I'm not in beta, but I know that while the slow mechanic and the rune trigger have changed, the NS itself didn't, so it should be (and as it seems, it is) reduced by 'canon' resilience.

    What I'm thinking is I was probably right before in that it is ignoring the newest stat; baseline resilience isn't on gear/gems/enchants so it's more of an asspull than a stat itself and might not account a reduction to healing absorb (it is a fairly new addition and so is base res), that could be giving the feeling of 'not enough'.



    Edit: Just realised I've been derailing a Paladin topic into a DK one, my apologies, carry on. Lol.
    Last edited by Veliane; 2012-08-09 at 03:25 PM.

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