Would you want to live in an utopian society? (read before answering poll)

[buddhapunch09]

You essentially describe my ideal world. One where a person does not worry about whether or not the will be able to afford food, water or shelter. Where one does not have to fear being trampled on by the oppression of their government, or by the tastes of society. People exist as they are, not as we tell them to be, and those that wish to work to a better tomorrow are rewarded justly.

I believe I picked up the idea from the Venus Project which advocates for the creation of such a society, and I would gladly live in such a world.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion because your intentions are just and i admire that.

"People exist as they are, not as we tell them to be, and those that wish to work to a better tomorrow are rewarded justly." Looking at this you must realize that people already exist as they are. We live in a society that has an unwritten law of how to act and be. You can choose to follow it or not by being yourself. If we lived in a world with order as described there would be no choice and i feel that you as an individual would have no self gratification or journey. There would only be one unbreakable law with no hope left/needed in the world. I dont think we would be human.

[Stir]

I respectfully disagree with your opinion because your intentions are just and i admire that.

"People exist as they are, not as we tell them to be, and those that wish to work to a better tomorrow are rewarded justly." Looking at this you must realize that people already exist as they are. We live in a society that has an unwritten law of how to act and be. You can choose to follow it or not by being yourself. If we lived in a world with order as described there would be no choice and i feel that you as an individual would have no self gratification or journey. There would only be one unbreakable law with no hope left/needed in the world. I dont think we would be human.

No choice?
As long as you harm none in the proceeds, you can do whatever you choose. A life of scholarship, medicine, science, arts, gardening, emotional support, creation, innovation, philosophy, development, gaming, cleaning, organizing... Whatever grants you satisfaction is within your reach. Positively anything you want to do with your life: You cán do with your life.
Those who wish to work for a better tomorrow are rewarded justly: By GAINING a better tomorrow. And they reward everyone else as well. The resulting reward is happiness and recognition. And there's already plenty of evidence (at least; that's how I understood it, I didn't read the papers myself) that employees deliver better quality when they're emotionally rewarded than they do when they're fiscally rewarded.

You seem to think that such a world would be boring; that it would strip away individuality. I myself believe the opposite: In such a world, a world where an artificial resource accumulation system no longer affects the production of individuals, actual individuality can finally flourish. Finally, you are no longer forced into a life that doesn't suit you just to make enough 'money' to buy enough food and pay the bills. Finally you can live your dream. Finally, you no longer have to fear your fellow humans, because there wouldn't be much of a reason to commit crimes against you. After all; there is no need to covet.

A person's freedom is not decided by that person's belongings. It's decided by that person's ability to live the way they have to rather than the way they are forced to. And a capitalist economy grants that freedom... To a select few. Most people who live in a capitalist economy, however, need to perform tasks they really do not wish to do, tasks that can be performed just as easily by machines, just to make a living. Most people in a capitalist economy are far from free, and most often, they do not have the fiscal or temporal means to express or even develop full individuality because of it.

[Seegtease]

Wouldn't happen. Humans are violent, uncaring, selfish creatures. Too many people just want to see the world burn.

[Feardotwin]

Wouldn't happen. Humans are violent, uncaring, selfish creatures. Too many people just want to see the world burn.

QFT

All too true.

[Grimbold21]

This is about the Zeitgeist and/or Venus project isn't it?

[Eliandal]

Definately yes, as long as I can still find fun things to do with my time !

[MuskiER]

No, just simply no.


Think about it this way, what is your utopia could be my dystopia. I could thrive on unknown and freedom while you want to work. This whole concept dont work lol.

[Wikiy]

You seem to think that such a world would be boring; that it would strip away individuality. I myself believe the opposite: In such a world, a world where an artificial resource accumulation system no longer affects the production of individuals, actual individuality can finally flourish. Finally, you are no longer forced into a life that doesn't suit you just to make enough 'money' to buy enough food and pay the bills. Finally you can live your dream. Finally, you no longer have to fear your fellow humans, because there wouldn't be much of a reason to commit crimes against you. After all; there is no need to covet.

Pretty much everything you said is true (the way i see it anyway). The current way the society works is so limiting compared to what the world could be like and what we humans could do with all our potential as individuals.

[SirPiken]

It would make little difference if you eliminated money. The new currency would be the power and influence over people. Someone has to make the rules, and people will strive to be the person that makes the rules. As soon as you get rid of one currency another form will pop up.

[buddhapunch09]

To understand happiness and achieve it you must go through the technicalities of which I feel is the difficulties and hardships of life. Without these you will never understand what satisfaction is. Living in this Utopia I don’t even think you could fully understand who you are or your purpose.

I find that when I have laws I feel freer because I have a will or strength of character/motivation to succeed and overcome them. Achieving this is in my opinion true happiness!
Laws for me define freedom.

[Wikiy]

This is about the Zeitgeist and/or Venus project isn't it?

I actually haven't heard of either before. This is simply about my silly idealistic dream.

Think about it this way, what is your utopia could be my dystopia. I could thrive on unknown and freedom while you want to work. This whole concept dont work lol.

Well, the thing is, you don't have to work. You wouldn't be forced to do anything in this utopia. You'd do whatever pleases you. You mistake my passion for what is considered a profession as a wish to work. What i want to do i would consider almost a hobby in such a world. That's exactly my point, anyone would be able to do whatever they wanted in their free time. And just because i'd decide to do something that is considered work these days (something that you HAVE to do, ie, no free will is really involved) doesn't mean it would actually be work and it doesn't mean i was being less free by not choosing to spend all my time on relaxing, which would be something allowable in such a world. Again, anyone could do whatever they wanted as long as it doesn't violate established human ethics and morality.

[Feardotwin]

To understand happiness and achieve it you must go through the technicalities of which I feel is the difficulties and hardships of life. Without these you will never understand what satisfaction is. Living in this Utopia I don’t even think you could fully understand who you are or your purpose.

I find that when I have laws I feel freer because I have a will or strength of character/motivation to succeed and overcome them. Achieving this is in my opinion true happiness!

We have a winner! With brains! Psychology at it's best.

Hello.

[Wikiy]

To understand happiness and achieve it you must go through the technicalities of which I feel is the difficulties and hardships of life. Without these you will never understand what satisfaction is. Living in this Utopia I don’t even think you could fully understand who you are or your purpose.

I find that when I have laws I feel freer because I have a will or strength of character/motivation to succeed and overcome them. Achieving this is in my opinion true happiness!

We make our own purpose. We aren't MEANT to do anything. What we feel as our purpose is what we're compelled to do, what feels like is our designated path. This utopia would allow every individual to follow that path to the fullest.

We have a winner! With brains! Psychology at it's best.

Hello.

What are you saying, that the rest of us are utterly wrong and that we "don't have brains"? Declaring someone to be right will get you nothing. Also, please actually contribute to this thread with your own opinions instead of judging who's right and who not. And yes, this is a matter of opinion.

[Stir]

To understand happiness and achieve it you must go through the technicalities of which I feel is the difficulties and hardships of life. Without these you will never understand what satisfaction is. Living in this Utopia I don’t even think you could fully understand who you are or your purpose.

I find that when I have laws I feel freer because I have a will or strength of character/motivation to succeed and overcome them. Achieving this is in my opinion true happiness!

As a person who's been through quite a lot of (physical and emotional) pain, I would say:
No. There is a point of no return. Even if you overcome the obstacles and claim some level of normalcy, they can still leave you broken, hard, scarred and jaded.
I can't find true happiness; I have to make do with what little I can gather. I'm not decidedly unhappy, because I recognize that I did manage to survive (a point of pride), but I do long for a simple happiness; the happiness of innocence, naivety.

Even if you don't realize you're happy because you've never been unhappy, you're still happy.

Otherwise, you'd get this strange scenario of an endless russian doll running in circles:
'I don't experience a lack of happiness = I don't understand happiness = therefore I am not happy = therefore I experience a lack of happiness = therefore I know happiness = therefore I don't experience a lack of happiness = therefore I don't understand happiness...' and so on, and so on.

[muto]

Yes I would. No more violence.

[buddhapunch09]

We make our own purpose. We aren't MEANT to do anything. What we feel as our purpose is what we're compelled to do, what feels like is our designated path. This utopia would allow every individual to follow that path to the fullest.

Wikiy i am totally agreeing with you. Our purpose "is what we're compelled to do, what feels like is our designated path". It’s our passions to which I hope brings peace before you and I die.
But if you were to live in this setting, this Utopia, you would have no clarity of what joy is. As hard as it is you must remember that being hindered is a gift, to know what you are and what it means to actually live.
I don’t think I would be bored living in this place but rather sedated and numb. Never knowing what I fully love.

[Lellybaby]

Star Trek inc!

Sign me up.

[Grizzly Willy]

Wikiy i am totally agreeing with you. Our purpose "is what we're compelled to do, what feels like is our designated path". It’s our passions to which I hope brings peace before you and I die.
But if you were to live in this setting, this Utopia, you would have no clarity of what joy is. As hard as it is you must remember that being hindered is a gift, to know what you are and what it means to actually live.
I don’t think I would be bored living in this place but rather sedated and numb. Never knowing what I fully love.

Are you arguing that we shouldn't work to reduce suffering in the world, since doing so would hinder our ability to perceive happiness?

[buddhapunch09]

Are you arguing that we shouldn't work to reduce suffering in the world, since doing so would hinder our ability to perceive happiness?

Hahah no im arguing that we need patience.

[Skroe]

No. I read that and I see stagnation.

Moreover its a world of compromise. Everyone's idea of utopia is different. An utopia for all means it compromised for everyone.

The one thing that this world does not need is more compromise. There is absolute right and absolute wrong.

Moreover,utopia ends as soon as one person decides to stop playing by the rules and make their own. The systems easiest to penetrate and destroy are the homogeneous ones. Someone will play a long in this Utopia for as long as it suits them, and then they'll burn it to the ground for their own benefit. That is why I don't want a utopia. A stagnant death trap built on compromise? Pass.