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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilong View Post
    Alright, you would be surprised by how many actually feel the same way as I'm talking here. I'm not saying it has more impact, I'm telling you that one video does not imply anything. And I'm not saying I can't beat something, I'm saying that it's visibly harder to do so when guardians are in the game. I still pvped every single hour of all stress tests and all bwes mainly. Just because I'm not discussing how to overcome it, doesn't mean that what I have to say has any less validity.
    It's one video, because:
    1. I'm not wasting any more of my time arguing with people on the internet when I know that in two to three weeks, what I was arguing about will be completely irrelevant because the meta game will have shifted. It has nothing to do with the class I play. And 2.
    2. It's an overwhelming victory, not a marginal one and shows the inherent problems with the strategy.
    Now it does seem like you take it personal if I, or anyone, feels like your class of choice could use some tweaking.
    It has nothing to do with the fact that I play a guardian. It has everything to do with people proclaiming that what they perceived now based on about 5 days of playing is anywhere close to how things will be a month from now.

    I mean, forget the fact that the video that you linked the guardian pretty much owned the most important node of the game, often alone.
    forget the fact that the blue team got as far as he did because of the guardian pretty much, because of his survival and good play in the middle.
    One out of three points is not enough to win. This goes into the whole meta game of guardian bunker. In order for bunker guardian to work, he or she has to be sitting on the point. They can't roam from that node. However, the other team, if playing more mobile, can always engage other nodes at a player advantage. And by the way, for a good chunk of the game, the keep was contested while the guardian was there. The red team was able to knock him off long enough to contest the node, severely hindering the overall strategy. Sure, the guardian stayed alive long after, but they weren't getting points for it. Then they were later 3-capped and therein lies the problem with bunker guardian. The bunker guardian is awful at capturing a point.
    forget the fact that this was what, bwe2? and that bosses gave you 40 points, and now they only gives you 25 points each. And that's because they were being too valuable (which red team did a good job exploring yes).
    Irrelevant. Since they only killed both once (even split the first time), the difference is +30 more points in BWE2 compared to BWE3. Red won by over 200. If anything, BWE2 hurts your argument because the bonus HP from using Tome of Courage was reduced in BWE3, making it harder to stay alive as a guardian.
    forget the fact that the ele looked like a fool 80% of the time.
    I don't play an elementalist, so I couldn't say. But you can say that about other players on other teams too. It works both ways, since no one on every team is going to play as well as others. It only starts to matter when the team with the strategy that is being claimed too powerful can use sub-par players and win consistently.

    Now I do happen to agree that there are ways with some abilities and traits that help counter, but I do not believe they are enough because the guardians are a little to good, and that's a fact, specially in one mode only and that being Conquest.
    That's not a fact; that's an opinion. A fact would be a comparison of how many teams employ the bunker guardian strategy and their rankings compared to ones that don't. But then you're getting into statistics - the third type of lie. And we don't really have access to those numbers.

    From what I've seen, bunker guardians tend to be weak against conditions, spike damage, and knockdowns/knockbacks. Stability allows anyone to enter the bubbles and is a huge part of the meta-game as well. With the nerf to Tome of Courage I mentioned earlier, it's not hard to spike down a guardian, or force him to take cover long enough to contest the point. If you can contest the point before help shows up, the bunker guardian has failed. Most bunker guardians cannot kill 1v1, so all but one player is free to leave if the guardian is not dead. The only way the guardian will get the point back is for help to show up, and then you just overwhelm at the other node. Obviously it's not that simple, the general principle is sound.

  2. #102
    Im thinking of going Necromancer (Minion Master). You guys think it works in PvP?

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by AiAtola View Post
    Im thinking of going Necromancer (Minion Master). You guys think it works in PvP?
    I've heard poor opinions of it, and I've never actually seen any necromancers use it. However, on that same token I can't say whether or not it's good since I have no experience playing with it or playing against someone with it.

    Try it out and see for yourself is all I can say.
    WoD updated Disc Priest Guide http://i.imgur.com/eOlZz9N.png

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by AiAtola View Post
    Im thinking of going Necromancer (Minion Master). You guys think it works in PvP?
    The only good thing about MM in PvP is that your minions can block projectiles from hitting you and can soak up some melee damage. Other than that, crap AI makes them difficult to control.

    At the moment Necro is much better with a condition build, they have some of the best condition transfers in-game. Power are decent aswell but not as good as a condition build for you team.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by AiAtola View Post
    Im thinking of going Necromancer (Minion Master). You guys think it works in PvP?
    They are annoying yeah and that's about it. I've fought them a few times, they clutter the area and make the field a little bit confusing. That's my experience anyway.

  6. #106
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyre Fierceshot View Post
    The only good thing about MM in PvP is that your minions can block projectiles from hitting you and can soak up some melee damage. Other than that, crap AI makes them difficult to control.

    At the moment Necro is much better with a condition build, they have some of the best condition transfers in-game. Power are decent aswell but not as good as a condition build for you team.
    Yeah.... MM works REALLY well in pvp.... the only thing is most people go MM for damage, which it isn't, what minion masters do is litter the battlefield with their minions making it so you can't hit jack shit because the minions take the this instead, and if you spec right it also makes the minion master (also known as the head of the beast) very sturdy and hard to kill. Not to mention if you run around with an axe as a minion master you can just start throwing vulnerability on the poor bastard your minions are watching and cackle madly as your minions begin to destroy them granting you and themselves more health per hit and leaving your victim to die!

    PS: Rigor Mortis = immobolize for 2 seconds on EVERY SINGLE AUTO ATTACK from your bone fiend, that alone fucks a ton of people over, oh yeah, everytime a minion dies a poison field takes its place...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  7. #107
    Had to hunt back a bit for this thread but...

    What do you guys think of the new PvP map? I had no idea It was going to be in this stress test.

    I REALLY like the cannon and boat thing in the middle of the map. It's like the treb in khylo but you have to fight over it and only get 5 shots before you have go back to the boat and pick up ammo. So you can't just camp it.

    I'm not really sure about the underwater part of the map. It could just be because I've spent most of my beta time pvp and don't have much water combat experience but I didn't really like the limited about that I got to do. i Will say the sharks "changing teams" depending on who has the point is a pretty neat mechanic but ouch do they hurt when you don't have the point.

    Overall I'd say I like the map ever if it's just because of the boat/cannon.
    "Haters give me balance, every Kyle's got a Cartman." -George Watsky

  8. #108
    Underwater PvP needs some work. The weapon balance is probably off, and "Finish Them!" doesn't work underwater. As far as the map goes, I liked the setting, but I only got to play it once, so I didn't get to figure out the cannon mechanic.

  9. #109
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exedore View Post
    Underwater PvP needs some work. The weapon balance is probably off, and "Finish Them!" doesn't work underwater. As far as the map goes, I liked the setting, but I only got to play it once, so I didn't get to figure out the cannon mechanic.
    I have to agree that some weapons were BLATANTLY weaker then others.. i don't think there were any that were OP, but there were totally some that were just.... well... weak...

    I personally didn't mind finish them being "broken" hell, i actually enjoyed that MORE then having the actual finish them there... i kinda hope they eliminate that after tasting what it was like without it...

    As for the pvp itself when all users had equally powerful weapons, i gotta say that it was really really really good, the problem wasn't in the whole "it needs work" aspect but the, "People need practice" sort of thing, because face it.... there's only ONE map where underwater pvp is possible, and that was just out today, so no one really knows any good strat for it atm....

    As for the whole canon mechanic, i didn't actually get to play with that... probably because i spent almost the entire time in that game being a frog man, i savagely guarded the ruins making sure my team ALWAYS kept it, and then just used the water to get to the beach and dock so i never even encountered the canon for the most part.... The sharks though.... those were awesome!! I really liked how the underwater point had a defense that pretty much shut off the water section to enemies.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by AiAtola View Post
    Im thinking of going Necromancer (Minion Master). You guys think it works in PvP?
    I've tried minions on and off and I have only done mass PvP in WvWvW so far on my lvl 35 necro and I can't say that I'm very impressed with my minions so far other than what ppl already stated here. I also don’t feel that I'm contributing very much with that build to my fellow players. I’m going to try a condition build now with boon and condition conversions, some passive healing and see how that works out instead.

    In PvE though I like the minon build a lot, too bad we can’t have 2 active builds to swap between.
    Last edited by Infinitus; 2012-08-30 at 08:29 PM.
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