1. #1

    Spirit as a Disc Priest in MoP

    Since Rapture's mana regeneration is based on spirit now - does that render my whole PvP and PvE equip useless for the time before MoP hits?
    I always tried to get the items without spirit, so I'm on around 1500 spirit now and not even 1000 in PvP equip.
    Has anyone tested the difference between having a lot of spirit and having as low as possible yet?

  2. #2
    I tried some PvP and I feel like I'm out of mana almost all the time. Am I doing something wrong?
    I get that Rapture cannot be used as a way to regenerate mana anymore so it seems I'm screwed without spirit. :/

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos View Post
    I tried some PvP and I feel like I'm out of mana almost all the time. Am I doing something wrong?
    I get that Rapture cannot be used as a way to regenerate mana anymore so it seems I'm screwed without spirit. :/
    You are correct. Rapture is no longer a mechanic to regen mana, it returns 150% of spirit which doesn't even cover the cost of the bubble which was used to cast it. I enjoyed the way rapture was use to regen mana in Cata.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Clebane View Post
    You are correct. Rapture is no longer a mechanic to regen mana, it returns 150% of spirit which doesn't even cover the cost of the bubble which was used to cast it. I enjoyed the way rapture was use to regen mana in Cata.
    Wait, does this mean Disc is now LESS mana efficient than Holy?

    I really don't like this change. I enjoyed being able to use spirit-less gear on my Disc priest and still having good regen compared to other healers when i timed Rapture right.

  5. #5
    Epic! RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Had to hop over to my PTR priest for some numbers. Since it's PTR, this is all level 85 stuff. iLvl 378. Some live numbers tossed in for comparison.

    Spirit total (PTR) = 2270
    Spirit total (live) = 2558

    Rapture (PTR) return: (2270 * 1.5) = 3405
    Rapture (PTR) return: (2558 * 1.5) = 3837

    Rapture Only Regeneration on (live) (120,000 mana pool) = 14400
    Rapture Only Regeneration on (live) (as a function of Spirit) = 637.7%

    Rapture (PTR) Percent of Mana pool returned (3405 / 100000) = 3.405%
    Rapture (PTR) Percent of Mana pool returned (using Live spirit data [2558]) = 3.837%
    Rapture (Live) Percent of Mana pool retunred (14400 / 120000) = 12% (I face palmed after mathing this. It's in the damn tool tip. I need more coffee)

    So, wearing as much spirit gear as the pre-made priest comes from we can see that on live Rapture is a 12% (637.7% via Spirit) mana return, and PTR Rapture is considerably smaller both as a function of "total mana pool" and as a function of Spirit.

    However, since mana pools will be static in MoP, the return from Rapture might scale passed the "12% of total mana" mark we know now, which has the double bonus of increasing passive regeneration through spirit being all that much more tied to Rapture regeneration. Someone from the Beta would be better able to provide numbers, I'm sure. I have no idea how things will look higher than level 85.
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  6. #6
    I haven't spent any great deal of time with my priest on the beta so I cannot comment on how badly our regen is doing there (although it is clear that people are indicating it is bad).

    One primary cause of this may simply be that most disc priests are used to having considerably less sprit than holy priests because disc is able to (on live) regen so much mana as % of maximum mana while holy has to rely on spirit - this means most disc priests on beta have very little spirit on their gear and are feeling it!

    I like that spirit is more important for disc now, I think it makes more sense. Want throughput? Intellect. Want regen? Spirit. I like the simplification on this idea.

    Yes, rapture on beta is giving us very little mana back, but what is the whole picture? Does using mostly spirit gear and utilizing either Mindbender or Power Word: Solace compensate?

  7. #7
    Disclaimer: Not in the beta, all of this is from feedback and PTR experience.

    Disc is still better than holy when it comes to regen. Assuming a typical use of PWS, you will cover the 10% discrepancy in Meditation. And more important, Disc also has Inner Focus, which is pretty monumental when it comes to managains. Or saves, whatever you consider it to be.

    As noted above, many disc priests have very little spirit on their gear. In MoP, at least in the current state, you will need to stack it just as much as holy. And that solace spell? Yes, you need to use that like it's 1999.

    Disc has IMO a twofold problem right now. PWS is too expensive, meaning that most beta priests I read feedback from tend to avoid using it since it WILL drain your mana by the 1 minute mark if used like in Cata. And the priest kit in general is kinda weak. Holy is massively saved by Divine Hymn and Lightspring, which combined heals for a frickin' lot. Disc don't have these, and need to cover their grounds by adding more typical heals. Which means more GCDs spent healing, more mana used to do the same amount of healing, and less GCDs spent solacing. Its a vicious cycle.

    IMO, a lot of this could be redeemed by simply lowering the cost of PWS. I do not think anyone is arguing against that disc is on the bottom of the pile right now, but mana regen really isn't the problem if you stack spirit like Holy. Mana use is.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  8. #8
    Blademaster Raenboe's Avatar
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    I've been playing on beta as disc and in some dungeon boss fights I go totally oom even with all my cooldowns.. I don't know what i'm doing wrong, I guess using expensive spells too much but i'm trying to avoid healing until it's really needed :S

  9. #9
    Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raenboe View Post
    I've been playing on beta as disc and in some dungeon boss fights I go totally oom even with all my cooldowns.. I don't know what i'm doing wrong, I guess using expensive spells too much but i'm trying to avoid healing until it's really needed :S
    Which talent from the row with the "Mana talents" did you choose?
    I'm still unsure if I should take Mindbender or Solace. Have you tried using Solace within your rotation if there's nothing to heal for a moment?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    I really don't like this change. I enjoyed being able to use spirit-less gear on my Disc priest and still having good regen compared to other healers when i timed Rapture right.
    That's just the thing Blizzard wanted to put an end to: Disc priests running with very little spirit compared to other healers, and still getting by just fine. And with Ingela's Rapture, timing Rapture right was brainless.

    Disc and Holy are pretty even now, when it comes to mana regen. As it should be, because on Live, Disc has a fuckton of mana regen compared to Holy.
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    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  11. #11

    However...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post
    That's just the thing Blizzard wanted to put an end to: Disc priests running with very little spirit compared to other healers, and still getting by just fine. And with Ingela's Rapture, timing Rapture right was brainless.

    Disc and Holy are pretty even now, when it comes to mana regen. As it should be, because on Live, Disc has a fuckton of mana regen compared to Holy.
    In retrospec I do remember Cata started out with big mana based problems for all healing classes, so much so that 2 healers were sometimes going to a 5-man heroic. Some healers quit the game then too or did a respec to a non-healing build..

    For MoP now that we disc priest are no longer Intel based, Blizzard has overcompensated (to punish us?). It's to a point I need much much more spirit for massive mana regen than other healing classes (10,000 spirit) and I am not even counting my 2 very good spirit proc based trinkets plus Tailor's spirit cloak proc ...yet I still can go OOM...

    I've been forced to Smite/Spirit Shell heal just to look decent on heal-meters. Pre MoP I had a non-smite heal build and did very well. ...I don't have enough keys on my keyboard to hot-key all of the crap we gotta do now and end up being a "clicker" (click mouse button on action bar) for some of it now.

    ...if only I could heal tanks and nothing else I'd never oom, but in 10 man raids 2 healing is sometimes normal.

    Holy? Holy Schmoly. I can raid heal as disc better unless pure heals (vs damage reduction) are needed as a mechanic of the boss encounter.

    Mindless? - give me mindless healing back please just like most other healing classes.
    Last edited by Zzardoz; 2013-01-01 at 10:25 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zzardoz View Post
    In retrospec I do remember Cata started out with big mana based problems for all healing classes, so much so that 2 healers were sometimes going to a 5-man heroic. Some healers quit the game then too or did a respec to a non-healing build..

    For MoP now that we disc priest are no longer Intel based, Blizzard has overcompensated (to punish us?). It's to a point I need much much more spirit for massive mana regen than other healing classes (10,000 spirit) and I am not even counting my 2 very good spirit proc based trinkets plus Tailor's spirit cloak proc ...yet I still can go OOM...

    I've been forced to Smite/Spirit Shell heal just to look decent on heal-meters. Pre MoP I had a non-smite heal build and did very well. ...I don't have enough keys on my keyboard to hot-key all of the crap we gotta do now and end up being a "clicker" (click mouse button on action bar) for some of it now.

    ...if only I could heal tanks and nothing else I'd never oom, but in 10 man raids 2 healing is sometimes normal.

    Holy? Holy Schmoly. I can raid heal as disc better unless pure heals (vs damage reduction) are needed as a mechanic of the boss encounter.

    Mindless? - give me mindless healing back please just like most other healing classes.
    necro thread

  13. #13
    His post is brilliant though. He's displaying about as much understanding as Ham, but instead of being an annoyance it's hilarious.

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