1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Corylyn View Post
    Why 30s? Wings last for 20s and that's when the CD on Judgment is lowered.... no?
    Last 30 secs with the talent. During which time CD for judgement is lowered = 100% uptime on SotR + 5 HoPo after 30 secs + 20% healing taken increase.

  2. #362
    Fluffy Kitten Fhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Carnished Toast
    Posts
    3,219
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Last 30 secs with the talent. During which time CD for judgement is lowered = 100% uptime on SotR + 5 HoPo after 30 secs + 20% healing taken increase.
    *headdesk*

    Dur. I never liked SW so I never took it. XD

    Paladin and D3 Moderator | MMO-C Guidelines | Signature and avatar art by Dancing Hare

  3. #363

  4. #364
    Do not change. Dodge and Parry are your two worst stats other than crit. Exp and Mastery are miles ahead.

    Hit>Exp>Haste=Mastery>Str>Dodge=Parry>Crit

  5. #365
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    11,050
    Hey guys, I doubt any of you peruse the Hellfire-eu realm forums or the Social Rejects website (www.socialrejects.guildlaunch.com) so you wouldn't have seen this (and even after, it's unlikely anyone cares too much )

    Either this coming weekend (27th-28th) or the one after (3rd-4th) I will be visiting home to say hello to the parents. During this time, I will be able to play wow again - meaning I can finally level to 90 and experience MOP because my first day of university was the day before MOP was launched.

    If anyone is on an EU server (or even better, Hellfire - or even US I don't care/mind but you'd be the one getting up early!) I will be chatting to literally anyone who wants to talk about anything, especially paladins preferably. Be it you wish to whisper, Vent, Mumble, Skype, whatever I don't mind, I will be around to chat even if I don't know you.

    During this time as well as spending some time with the parents, I will be leveling my tits off and preparing to jump into as much content as I possibly can. If the guild doesn't have any evil schemes planned for me then I'll be prepared to do stuff with other people as well.

    I know this makes me sound pretty bigheaded but I would go as far to say that I'm "good" at my class but at the same time, when the majority of the playerbase doesn't do the content, simply by doing it you are either carried or good and I'm quietly confident that I was not carried. The main reason I'm posting this though is that I played this game (without break) for 6.5 years and I miss the community - sure people can say it doesn't exist but it does and it never ceased, just half of it turned into a cess pool but that's a different discussion.

    This will give me an extra insight into the game other than the numbers and second hand sources I've had so far which can only be a benefit to the guide as long as I don't go batshit insane. If anyone (mainly EU please, and above that Hellfire but any EU is cool as long as you communicate in english) wants to chat when I am about (preferably voice programs too, mainly vent/mumble over skype - AND YOU HAVE A SERVER) then PM me and I'll let you know when I'm around as a vocal explanation of things always beats reading a typed summary.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  6. #366
    Just a quick question about the gemming/enchanting section of the guide here. If we're advocating the haste build now wouldn't it be better to use gems such as Lightning Wild Jade (160 haste + 160 hit) and Wicked Vermillion Onyx (160 exp + 160 haste). As for enchants wouldn't the Enchant gloves/boots Haste also win out over the mastery counterparts?

  7. #367
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    11,050
    We're advocating both the haste and mastery build, it's really dependent on personal preference and what your healers can cope with.

    They do equivalent smoothing but then haste provides a bit more healing due to Glyph of Battle Healer and SoI, and more dps, but mastery grants lower total damage taken and less reliance on a 100% perfect rotation.

    I missed those gems out by accident and I will add them. I've not seen the enchants as negotiating wowhead is painful with internet this bad but if anyone could could link them, much appreciated as I've not been able to see them (was totally unaware of their existence).
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  8. #368
    Here's the enchants for you. Enchant Gloves - Greater Haste and Enchant Boots - Greater Haste

    *Edit - might also want to add in Windsong to the weapon enchants list as another alternative.
    Last edited by DrDreads; 2012-10-22 at 04:02 AM.

  9. #369
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    11,050
    Ok thanks will look later after lectures/when internet works - internet being shitty but if that's the one which procs haste/crit/mastery then that's the correct weapon enchant and the others are inferior and I probably just forgot to update it.
    Last edited by MerinPally; 2012-10-22 at 07:24 AM.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  10. #370
    Yeah, I'm using Windsong right now, two out of three effects are useful, so that isn't bad (and they each proc individually too, I've had haste and mastery up at the same time, which is kinda neat).
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Crucial M550 256GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Do not change. Dodge and Parry are your two worst stats other than crit. Exp and Mastery are miles ahead.

    Hit>Exp>Haste=Mastery>Str>Dodge=Parry>Crit
    How come haste is on par with mastery? Can't see any paladins that goes for haste

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by cripez View Post
    How come haste is on par with mastery? Can't see any paladins that goes for haste
    That is a matter of playstyle, and the reason you see most paladins going for mastery is because people do not like changes. Mastery was FotM in Cata so people still goes mastery. It was the same in the beginning of cata, everyone stacked stamina, until 2 months in, then people started stacking mastery. People were looking at the top guild, the top guilds stacked stamina, however they released an extensive interview to the logic behind this. Simply put it, they had healers good enough that they did not need damage mitigation, when the top guilds went for the world firsts, they rather had higher health pools to survive burst damage since their healers was skilled enough to keep up even without mitigation and they did not oom. Also stamina gave increased Vengeance which helped for enrage timers as a small bonus. One thing about looking towards what the top guilds are doing, it can be dangerous.

    1. They may have a spec / gear set optimized for a specific job on a specific fight.
    2. Especially tanks and healers, maybe spec oddly because their other tanks/healers are geared / skilled in some way which causes them to gear differently
    3. Alot of players are well known to reforge, change gear pieces and even change gems / enchants before logging out to "troll" the other top guilds and tricking them they are gearing in a different way than they actually are.

    I was one of those that stacked mastery from the beginning of cata for CTC cap. Everyone asked me "Don't you need stamina bla bla". I just told them no, I did not need a bigger health pool with smart cooldown uses for magic damage. For those that remember Maloriak Heroic, I tanked him quite early on in 25 HC with only 154k+-, everyone used to say you needed atleast 200k hp to survive his black phase breath, and pretty much nobody believed me that I tanked it only with 150k. And I feel like it is the exact same thing now. I am one of those that is stacking haste now because in my opinion it is far superior.

    Mastery and haste are very close though, a matter of playstyle as I said earlier. The main point is that you should stack either, do not go 50/50.

    Mastery and Haste are good on different fights. Some fights favors mastery ( like Emperor ), whilst most fights in my opinion favors haste. The main thing to remember is that Haste requires you to perform your rotation almost flawlessly, and actually knowing your class. You do not just need to know which buttons to push, you need to know WHY. You need to know when to hit SotR at 3 HoPo and when to pool up 5 HoPo.

    I think that if you are running 10 man especially, haste is alot superior than mastery. For a few simple reasons.

    1. Tanks are a bigger part of the total DPS in a 10 man group, the haste contributes a great deal to meet the enrage timer, and lets be honest, this is something you cannot ignore, if the enrage is the issue on a fight, and by reforging and regemming you can add a decent 5-15k dps as a tank without dying, that is a huge deal, especially in 10 man but also in 25 man.

    2. If you are running with another plate tank, it is better for gearing ( again more important in 10 man ). On my paladin I am running 10 man with another warrior tank. We got no plate melees, so basicallly he takes all the "tank" gear, and I take almost all the "DPS" gear, causing us to gear up our tanks in twice the rate we would otherwise. We only share shields.

    3. As in my case, when running with a warrior tank, but also transfers a bit to the other tank classes, haste niches us as a tank, it makes us unique. On some fights it makes us far superior to all other tanks. If there is a fight were haste is bad for some reason, let the other tank tank it.

    4. Also my tanking gear works very well for DPS, since haste is the best stat for Retri aswell, and I am going for hit+exp cap. So it makes switching to retri a matter of switching weapon. The only thing that is subpar is ofc the enchants and meta gem. Which you could change to get optimal results. Though, it makes us valuable as a off-dps, since we do not need to collect a second gear set, only weapon and helm primarly. Also extremely valuable this early in the expansion when most off specs is full blues.

    I have been trying to see benefits with mastery over haste, but I have very hard time finding that the benefits of mastery outweights those of haste. I am not dying, and I am even taking less damage taken then our other tank. I provide alot more raid dps and raid healing compared to a tank mastery built. I feel like the reason most tanks is going mastery is because they think haste is controversial, it feels wrong for them. Some others maybe stay mastery because it is what they are used to, mastery was the best in Cata, so they stay mastery. ( similar to stamina tanks in the beginning of Cata ). Others becauajse their guilds tell them to. A vast mority probably just stays it because other people use mastery, guessing the above poster is one of those, similar to your argument "Can't see any paladins that goes for haste". Follow the flow instead of taking a moment to think about it oneself.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2012-10-23 at 11:51 AM.

  13. #373
    Epic! Xothic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    QLD, Australia
    Posts
    1,500
    Quote Originally Posted by cripez View Post
    How come haste is on par with mastery? Can't see any paladins that goes for haste
    You can go either full into haste or full into mastery, its best not to go half into both. According to Theck, Haste is slightly better than mastery, but you have to be really good at your rotation, while mastery stacking is better for the more mediocre players. Or something along those lines. Also I'd argue that the reason you see so few pallies go into haste is because everyone is still fucking around trying to perfect their 15% exp cap, and that hasnt left much stat room to really start making progress on either path.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Xothic - Prot Paladin

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by cripez View Post
    How come haste is on par with mastery? Can't see any paladins that goes for haste
    I went full Haste on my Prot Paladin and went from Spiky annoying damage to very smooth intake + near double increase in DPS and MASSIVE and I mean FUCKING HUGE increase in Healing for both myself and my groups.

    Haste is where it is at right now. Until such time as Mastery and other Avoidance stats can Catch up, I'll enjoy being a more Solid all round tank using Haste.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    Haste is where it is at right now. Until such time as Mastery and other Avoidance stats can Catch up, I'll enjoy being a more Solid all round tank using Haste.
    Actually the other stats will never catch up. Haste is at its weakest at lower gear levels. Haste scales alot better with gear and as we progresses haste will only become even better. Also haste scales lovely with Mastery, so when we can get enough itemization to get hit cap, exp cap + alot of haste and still have mastery over, that will be lovely

  16. #376
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex
    Posts
    1,759
    So Haste really really is the king at the moment... Time to re-reforge my gear...

  17. #377
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    11,050
    As I have stated again and again and Theck has even stated, Haste is not necessarily "the" king, it is part of a ruling duo if anything.

    Both haste and mastery SMOOTH THE DAMAGE YOU TAKE - if you wanted to reduce total damage taken most then you'd get Avoidance but you don't because you want smoothing.

    The upside of the haste build is more dps and more healing, however if you cannot get a perfect rotation out with regards to Holy Power builders then you are pretty fucked. The mastery build is not as reliant on a perfect rotation as haste so should you not be able to get a perfect rotation then it is superior - the added extra is that mastery makes you take slightly less damage than haste, as a build, but it's not a huge amount.

    The key thing is that the smoothing is the same, mastery is forgiving on the rotation but haste isn't but then if you can get it perfect haste will do more dps and healing but still take slightly more damage (albeit not a lot).

    If you look at pretty much all the hardmode raiding paladin tanks right now, especially the ones who did it first, they all went for mastery. Because that extra bit of dps and healing isn't required but the smaller damage taken and wiggle room on the rotation is required.

    Take it as you will but it is NOT the case that you can proclaim either haste or mastery to be the king, they are 2 different builds, they are equal on DAMAGE SMOOTHING WHICH IS THE ONLY IMPORTANT BIT and then they each have their own smaller perks.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    So Haste really really is the king at the moment... Time to re-reforge my gear...
    As I read it, the idea is to get expertise to 15% first (and hit to 7.5%). It will depend on your gear, but I can't reach that cap yet so haste vs mastery is still a rather secondary issue for me. It sure feels odd to be looking at haste/expertise items as bis for tanking, though.

  19. #379
    Keyboard Turner
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Montreal, Qc. Canada
    Posts
    1
    Great thread. I am shifting from Holy to Prot to get our raid team going. Still need some gear but this really helped to get on tanking on the right foot.

  20. #380
    So basically we gonna take the "dps" gear for prot? Like the boots from Sha of Anger quest item, (i cant link atm need more posts) but the angerforged stompers with Haste and mastery, instead for the tank boots: mindfire sollerets, with parry and dodge?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •