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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Asheriah's Avatar
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    Protection paladins are really fun to play right now.

    Also, I'm a bit surprised to not see people being completely amazed by glyphed blinding light. This is an amazing tanking cooldown for trash mobs !

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    CS is now at a 4.5s baseline CD for all three specs. However, Sanctity of Battle is now a class ability and affects more abilities as a whole (I know this won't mean much for Prot outside of raidwide spellhaste auras and Heroism, but it's something).
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Glyph of the Battle Healer may be intended for Holy, but Prot still gets Insight. So I'll probably try messing around with that as well.
    That actually sounds like a really good idea. I feel bad for having forgot, but noticed while messing around on the ptr now that the servers are stable, it appears the 10% haste that was added to Seal of Insight fits into Sanctity of Battle's criteria. So it leads to faster holy power generation, heals from melee attacks, speeds up periodic effects, and a bonus 5% effectiveness to healing spells. And of course Battle Healer glyph for more great justice.

    Seems about significant enough for a main seal outside of stuff on farm status or with tight dps requirements.
    Last edited by Elathi; 2012-07-29 at 09:02 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Elathi View Post
    it appears the 10% haste that was added to Seal of Insight.
    Increases cast speed speed by 10%, not 10% haste.

  4. #24
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    don't know why I didn't think that Eternal Flame and Bastion would work together yeah okay I'll be taking EF, very nice

    also, imagine Hand of Purity used on a Brewmaster Monk :S BM gets stupidly high Stagger stacks, OT pallies sticks HoP on him... no damage taken
    Reading the A song of Ice and Fire series is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere and shoots the puppy, then punches you in the face

  5. #25
    Over 9000! MerinPally's Avatar
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    Bolding the Blinding Light glyph now, I hadn't considered the usefulness of it on trash packs so had left it alone Will write about it later though (assuming I remember).

  6. #26
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    also, imagine Hand of Purity used on a Brewmaster Monk :S BM gets stupidly high Stagger stacks, OT pallies sticks HoP on him... no damage taken
    Is Stagger's periodic portion even damage, or just lost health? I imagine Blizzard would've made it lost health to avoid being able to use damage reduction spells like that against it.

  7. #27
    Over 9000! MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elathi View Post

    Major Glyphs:
    Blinding Light - Wasn’t highlighted, so I imagine it was regarded as not useful. I actually kind of like it. Turns it into an aoe stun rather than disorient (disorients are broken by damage), for when mobs aren’t the right type for HW to do it. Could see perhaps taking it for challenge modes.
    Hammer of the Righteous - This doesn’t seem like anything more than a very slight dps or quality of life glyph to me. HotR generates a point of holy power just like CS, it just does less damage to a single target. Unless you really need to be doing less aoe damage, I don’t understand the strong aversion to using HotR instead of CS every so often.
    Inquisition - Saw this glyph highlighted, but as I understand, Inq is exclusive to ret.
    Ascetic Crusader - If I remember correctly this doesn’t exist anymore. It was turned into…
    Harsh Words - Allows WoG to be used as an offensive spell (and specifically states doesn’t work with EF). No, I imagine it wouldn’t benefit from bastion stacks when used offensively, since they specifically state they’re for when you’re healing yourself. Don’t really care for this glyph personally.
    *My choices would likely be Divine Protection when the physical damage reduction is needed, Holy Wrath when/if mob types allow, Blinding Light for whatever potential niche use, with Alabaster Shield, Focused Shield, and perhaps Final Wrath (or whatever is mathed out to be the next highest dps glyph) filling any empty spots for single target dps.
    Thank you for your opinions, added to the list However, you appear to be right about glyphs, as I just copied them yesterday off the battlenet site. I will update now accordingly, thank you ^^

  8. #28
    Unrelated note, Merinpally i tanked my first 8/8 ds It wass nerfed normal 10man XD but still!

  9. #29
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Is Stagger's periodic portion even damage, or just lost health? I imagine Blizzard would've made it lost health to avoid being able to use damage reduction spells like that against it.
    afaik, it's just a standard DoT, all affects that reduce period damage should work to reduce Stagger. Tbh though with Purifying brew (the spell that removes all stagger) on a low cost and low CD, there's probably not MUCH call to blow a longer CD on it.. Outside of some possible mechanics from fights.
    Reading the A song of Ice and Fire series is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere and shoots the puppy, then punches you in the face

  10. #30
    Over 9000! MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayra View Post
    Unrelated note, Merinpally i tanked my first 8/8 ds It wass nerfed normal 10man XD but still!
    Hey hey, nothing wrong with 10mans, I pretty much ran and definitely raid led a 10man guild from mid 30s realm position in T11 to 8th in Firelands and 6th in DS although I had to stop the game at 3/8hc and others took over On DS release night we were technically server first... for 3 minutes. In that time, Guildox updated so we lost it ^^

    Well done however - the most important question over "did you wipe, did anyone die, blah blah" is - did you enjoy it?

  11. #31
    Alright, here is where my thoughts lie on our spec.

    http://mop.wowhead.com/mists-of-pand...alculator#lxjM

    With the change to PoJ, for me, it seems far better. It's now 15% base, and stacks a bonus 5%. Doesn't get as high (30% instead of 40%), but it's base is higher with no Holy Power.

    Given the fact I'll mostly be playing in challenge modes (and LFR), Repentance is my choice, hands down. Tank with a long-term CC is something unique we bring.

    The third tier is kinda floating for me. Sacred Shield will likely win out for my challenge mode work, cause I know my healer is a druid. Plus, it doesn't boost healing of Flash of Light anymore, which means it's synergy isn't as high now with Holy. Selfless Healer is definitely my alternative though, cause it is pretty reliable to have that extra heal.

    Unbreakable Spirit is again, a no-brainer for Tanking (imo).

    I actually like how Divine Purpose plays. We are going to be throwing SotR and WoGs pretty consistently, that it should pop a fair bit. And getting to toss an extra SotR for a free stack of BoL, or getting to WoG right away after hitting that 5th stack or in a clutch situation, is very cool. And, as any Ret Paladin will confirm: It can proc off of a proc'd use of a skill, so you could theoretically chain a few in a row.

    And now the 90 tier. I haven't leveled to 90 on the Beta yet, but it is an even toss between Execution Sentence and Holy Prism. I opted for Prism right now, cause it is on the shorter CD. But would test both to see which is more favourable. Either way, it is being used for the healing really. Holy Prism would be nice for a little extra AoE threat though: Hit yourself and explode the Light on all the mobs. Kind of a nice bonus to Holy Wrath + HotR + Consecrate.

    On to Glyphs!

    For Minors (let's just finish this quick): Seal of Blood (I am a BE Paladin, I want it back!), Righteous Retreat (Bubblehearth!!!), Falling Avenger (Yay for slowfall!)

    For Majors, where things matter a bit:

    Alabaster Shield: It's basically mandatory. Any Prot not using it had best have a good reason.
    Hammer of the Righteous: Reduces maintenance upkeep. Kinda useful.
    Divine Protection: A good choice if you feel you need more physical damage reduction. But a bit of a fight-by-fight basis there. Switch it out with Hammer.
    Blinding Light: Again, due to my likely focus in Challenge Modes, more CC (especially AoE) is better.

    A couple off-comments for glyphs:
    Flash of Light: IF you go for Selfless Healer, this can combo well. Stack up 3 stacks, FoL yourself, then hit the WoG with a 5-stack of BoL, and let the good heals roll!
    Dazing Shield: Not a big fan of this. DPS tend to start DPSing right away, and Dazing Shield makes enemies take LONGER to get to you. It is part of why I was so happy they flipped the glyph and baseline in Cata.

    Again, this is for my much more 5-man focused playstyle. LFR I tend to roll as Ret for a bit before tanking, and not in any serious guild of raiding (all RL friends/family, and all with very varied schedules). Raiding older content, I can tank as Ret (at least into all of TBC), or convince my DK friend to tank (in WotLK and come MoP, Cata too), cause he does more damage as Blood than I do as Prot (for now... apparently, Blood got hit hard in MoP, but that isn't for here).
    Last edited by ZeroEdgeir; 2012-07-29 at 05:58 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerwookie View Post
    Increases cast speed speed by 10%, not 10% haste.
    Yes, I'm aware that's how it is worded. But the cool downs were changing between having SoI on and having SoI off (CS went from 4.5 to 4.09, Judgment from 6 to 5.46, and so on).
    Last edited by Elathi; 2012-07-29 at 06:35 PM.

  13. #33
    Over 9000! MerinPally's Avatar
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    Ok the most noticeable thing (and something I hadn't anticipated to see quite to this extent) was that people will be focusing on challenge modes exclusively, rather than raids. For when I properly clean this thread up (once we get a few more opinions, I'm thinking maybe 5 more then I can start condensing text heavily to actual "This > That > The other") then what I can and will do, is come up with a general set/guideline for RAIDING and another for Challenge modes.

    What this will do in half the space currently taken up, is funnel information, by saying "these are the availables, these are better for Raiding, here's a BRIEF reason why" followed by another part for Challenge modes, here's a BRIEF reason why. This will take up half the space and be information that people actually NEED, because half of what is in my posts is OPINION and the other half is information you will be able to read off your screen come 5.0

    Hope people approve of that, and Zeroedgeir thank you for your post I will edit that in to the opinions section If people could also specify whether their spec/glyphs are picked for Challenge Modes or Raiding that would be fantastic because I can make a marker next to each person and then when I do the condensing I can sort the information far more easily and get a better idea of what others think as opposed to just myself ^^

    Thanks a lot guys, this thread is generating the attention and discussion that I had hoped for. I can always hope for more though...

    Oh and an edit - if you guys who've already posted a spec can specify if it's for challenge mode/raiding as mentioned above that would be super, and if you want to make one for the other one (ie if your one is raiding, you want to make a challenge mode one) then please feel free and highlight which one it is and I'll add it to the list
    Last edited by MerinPally; 2012-07-29 at 08:23 PM.

  14. #34
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    You make an excellent point about stating what your build is for Merin

    With that in mind I'll update and say my slightly tweaked build, probably focused on Challenge modes and Heroics will be...
    Talents: Speed of Light, Repentance, Eternal Flame, Unbreakable Spirit, Divine Purpose, Holy Prism for Trash/Execution Sentance for Bosses

    Glyphs: Major - Alabaster Shield, HoTR, Blinding Light/Holy Wrath, depending on the number of Dragon/Elemental enemies we're fighting. Minor - Winged Vengeance, Fire From the Heavens, Bladed Judgement.

    As for my raiding build... tbh I'm such a slacker I'll probably use the same one , frak it, it's only 10man normals, probably LFR, kinda burned out for raiding
    Reading the A song of Ice and Fire series is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere and shoots the puppy, then punches you in the face

  15. #35
    Over 9000! MerinPally's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update Gallahadd, will put you down as Challenge Modes for now, as LFR isn't really raiding lets be honest, and I'm sure you'll probably alter your build for raiding 10man normals count by the way!

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-30 at 01:41 PM ----------

    Ok added on my Challenge Mode idea as well as my raiding one If others want to do the same then please do, need some more potential raiding specs!

  16. #36
    For your run-of-the-mill tank 'n' spank I'd go with something like this:
    Pursuit of Justice
    Fist of Justice
    Sacred Shield
    Unbreakable Spirit
    Sanctified Wrath
    Holy Prism
    Avenging Wrath, Word of Glory, Focused Shield.
    Winged Vengeance, Falling Avenger, Focused Wrath.

    So many of the talents and glyphs have potential depending on the encounter and group comp though, its hard to suggest one spec for general use. Maybe a better idea would be to have the encounters listed with suggested specs? It would take a lot of time and space though and group comps could still affect what players take.

    10man raider point of view, BTW.

  17. #37
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elathi View Post
    Yes, I'm aware that's how it is worded. But the cool downs were changing between having SoI on and having SoI off (CS went from 4.5 to 4.09, Judgment from 6 to 5.46, and so on).
    Interesting news on this front: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=154#3080

    About halfway down the post, GC has this to say:

    "The intent is that Sanctity of Battle is based on melee haste instead of spell haste but we are waiting on a code change for that."

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Interesting news on this front: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=154#3080

    About halfway down the post, GC has this to say:

    "The intent is that Sanctity of Battle is based on melee haste instead of spell haste but we are waiting on a code change for that."
    The main reason for this is due to pvp haha.

    When we get a debuff that reduces casting speed like necrotic or CoT it INCREASES our cooldown. example; dueling a DK i had a 9sec cd on CS...

    EDIT: To add something mildly constructive to the thread haha.

    I saw this in the 5.0+ solo thread,

    "- Divine purpose is beastly for Prot soloing and is the one I think I would take in all situations. Zealotry MIGHT be better if you have lots of expertise, but DP is guaranteed. "

    I never thought about that since whenever i think of Zeal I think of it as ret (aka my CS don't miss/get parried ectect)... This makes Divine purpose a bit more appealing to me, and you can line up some sexy WoGs if you're lucky. Though it's still RNG!
    Last edited by Vayra; 2012-07-30 at 02:24 PM.

  19. #39
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayra View Post
    I never thought about that since whenever i think of Zeal I think of it as ret (aka my CS don't miss/get parried ectect)... This makes Divine purpose a bit more appealing to me, and you can line up some sexy WoGs if you're lucky. Though it's still RNG!
    I believe they intend for tanks to gear up a greater amount of hit and expertise this time around, since they're switching to the 'active' tanking methodology. So I don't think it'll be too heavy a concern for a talent comparison.

    Then again, I'm hit-capped and at 36 expertise now, so I'll actually be disappointed in Mists when I lose that.

  20. #40
    Maybe at lower Ilevel of gear though?

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