1. #561
    Mmm true that. Although to be fair, I don't have access to 502s in my current progression and I run with a paladin healer so it would be pretty heavy RNG to end up with int items in the first place.

    Anyway, fair point.
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  2. #562
    Yeah, did not mean anything against you. Was more to explain my own choice in 502 vs sha boots.

  3. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    It's less that I discounted that as a possibility, more that I found it incredibly hard to believe someone was so accursed by the gods of RNG that they would be forced to make that comparison in the first place.

    Like, no rep, no craftables, no nothing ?! If your guild is getting 502s dont they have some 496 patterns?!

    Don't answer that, I trust you to find your own upgrades. Just like wow.

    Then again, this is coming from someone who has had 12+ LFR epics so far (on one character) and hasn't run any of the LFRs yet this week. I guess my polar opposite had to exist somewhere.

    ... There can be only one.
    Yeah... I feel him. I am really trying to find even the agility cloak or an intellect offhand to get even something. During the whole of Mists of Pandaria on my paladin, last night was the first piece of loot I got from a bonus roll. I am not joking. It was the Elegon trinket, too, which is really shit. Still running with the Elegon LFR mainhand...

  4. #564
    Quite happy with second roll chance(coins)...good idea. Back from Feng, main hand from Elegon, yesterday dropped ring from second boss in HoF. Good, good idea, RNG sucks though, agree.

  5. #565
    Wouldn't stacking haste > stacking stamina for 10 man guilds. The hits, while big aren't as big as 25m guilds and your self healing and damage matter much more.

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    Wouldn't stacking haste > stacking stamina for 10 man guilds. The hits, while big aren't as big as 25m guilds and your self healing and damage matter much more.
    In most cases yes, but not in all cases. There is no such things for tanks as saying x is better than y.

    Everything depends on your group, how good the dps is, how good the healers are. Which boss you are currently on.
    What is your other tank and your own playstyle ofc.

    Also alot depends on how good your gear is compared to the boss you are doing. If you are undergeared for an encounter it benefits stamina more.

    Saying haste>stamina in 10 man is a simplification, just as saying stamina>other stat is in 25 man. While it may be true in most cases, it all boils down to different things in different groups. To many factors to say 1 is superior.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2012-11-27 at 10:48 PM.

  7. #567
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    Pretty much. You get more haste than stamina for each gem so it comes down to whether you feel that the reason you need to be able to soak more damage is best solved by having more health and your healers can pick up the slack or are they working their tits off and you need to help more.

    Looking at the rough stat values posted by Firefly on the previous page anyway, Haste is still better even going by those (unless my eyes are closed as I read them, or I'm being hideously stupid - both are equally plausible).

    The whole point of the haste build is to be able to get as much as possible to keep your defenses up to a great extent and the reward for that is more damage and more self healing. On that basis, more is surely better over stamina as long as you can survive all the hits in the period when your buff is down, assuming they all are completely unmitigated by blocks, absorbs or negated by parry/dodge. Take that plus another hit or 2 but this time with the SHOTR buff up assuming same conditions and then you could never really need more health outside of some certain circumstances under rather specific boss encounters.

    Having not properly raided 25mans since WOTLK and my only cata 25 man experiences being Firelands heroic pugs I ran, I would find it hard to comment but I would assume something similar but this time not bother with the hits after and just stick to maybe 2 or possibly 3 hits without the buff up, because that would have you dead or almost dead unless things aren't as brutal as I may be imagining and making it up in my head. When you have 6-7 healers like was the norm then chances are one is healing you (or someone else plus beacon) or you'll have some kind of HOT/Shield protecting a bit so can probably afford a bit less.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 10:48 PM ----------

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  8. #568
    Those stat values were not actual stat values. The thing with tanking is that it is not as easy to calculated "okay, 1 crit rating gives me 3 dps and 1 mastery rating gives me 4 dps. There Mastery has a value of 1 and crit a value of 0.75"

    For tanking, you can make up different stat values depending on your own group setup. The stat values that I suggested was quite simple and not very well thought through. Their only purpose was to make Askmrrobot prioritise

    Hit>exp>haste>stam>mastery
    or
    Hit>exp>stam>haste>mastery depending on your personal preference and then making askmrrobot to reforge and regem you to meet these demands. Of course if you another gearing strategy you would have to remake those stat prios to the get the results wanted. The relations of my stats in that stat prio did have no correlation to the actual values of the stats, just how to make mr robot help you optimise certain gearing strategies.

    I believe that making correct stat weigths is near impossible as tanking is about finding out what works for your group, for your playstyle, for your gear, on the boss you are on, and finding a good balance. I do not think that we can calculate enough variables to make the assessment.

    Basically what I said was to set stamina to 1 and haste to 0.8 or 0.74 depending if you want to gem for haste or stamina.
    ( putting haste on 0.8 when stamina is on 1 would make askmrrobot prefer haste gems over stamina gems whilst putting it on 0.74 would make it prefer stamina gems over haste gems. )

  9. #569
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    Ah ok, knew there would be a misunderstanding on my part. Whilst we can somewhat relate actual defensive values such as crit and haste, stamina is harder if not impossible to do so. Having never used AskMrRobot ever as it used to be so hideous for tanks (to the point where on this very forum I challenged someone alleging to be the creator of it with my calculator and paper, and won, even after some but not all of the "fixes"). Never had any need after that.

    Thanks for the clarification.
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  10. #570
    Askmrrobot works, it is just that their stat weigths are horrible and needs to be adjusted after personal prefference. Yet I never use those sites myself, so I am not an expert on them

  11. #571
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    I've always felt 10 million times more comfortable using my own head, calculator and pen to work these things out, but then I don't go that detailed in which case I'd use Matlab but I tend to stick to a lot of ingame testing rather than theoretical - I'd go mathematical on the numbers I obtained myself rather than crunching formulae. It's probably a factor of having too much spare time than anything else but oh how things have changed :<
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  12. #572
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    does anyone have macros i could use in 10 man raids? i use to use them n want to try some macros in MoP

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by darkchief View Post
    does anyone have macros i could use in 10 man raids? i use to use them n want to try some macros in MoP
    What kind of thing do you want those macros to do?
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  14. #574
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    give me some options i dont know any macros like what macros are people using??

  15. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchief View Post
    give me some options i dont know any macros like what macros are people using??
    If you have no idea what you want to use macros for, there will most likely be no point in using macros for you.

  16. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchief View Post
    give me some options i dont know any macros like what macros are people using??
    You seem to be under the impression that macros make things better... they don't necessarily. They can make some things easier and more efficient IF THAT IS HOW YOU PRACTICE PLAYING. We can't just give someone a macro and say "use it, it'll make things easier" because it won't if you don't know how to use it or even why you want to use it.

    Macros won't play the game for you, it's just a way of binding 2+ useful functions together in a way that you find things easier to play with. For example, I've always had Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous in a modifier macro, ever since the cataclysm patch came at the end of WOTLK. This allowed me to press 2 to hit Crusader Strike, or alt-2 to use Hammer of the Righteous. I found this more beneficial for me and my style, whereas I know plenty of people who find it easier to use 2 seperate buttons.

    Another example is that for my immunity bubble, I have the cancelaura effect bound into the same button so that 1 press activates it and another cancels it. This works for me because for that particular spell I know that when I hit it, I will be able to calmly hit it ONCE as opposed to mashing it like I do instinctively with pretty every other button >.> However I know lots of others who would be mashing bubble to a ridiculous extent when they use it, so my macro would be shit for them as they'd auto cancel it - I know I won't cock it up but those guys would.

    Macros are a personal thing, we can list our macros if you really want but it'd be a pointless endeavour as you could try them all but whether they'd sink in is a different matter. The best advice I can give you is to think what you reckon you could streamline, or have 2 buttons that are similar (such as things I've mentioned, cancel aura macros and the like) and see if you would find it easier to combine them rather than having seperate buttons with very different binds. This way you can have similar binds or maybe the same one just with a modifier! Also saves toolbar space, letting you shrink them allowing more screenspace
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  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by darkchief View Post
    give me some options i dont know any macros like what macros are people using??
    Here are some I use...

    Aforementioned macro to use Divine Shield and cancel it when/if needed with one button:
    Code:
    /cancelaura Divine Shield
    /cast Divine Shield
    Make sure the cancelaura command is the first one. This macro is mostly used to have Divine Shield clear a debuff on you, but immediately remove the shield so you can keep tanking. But don't mash it if you want to keep the shield up.

    Mouseover macros for relevant things:
    Code:
    /cast [@mouseover]Word of Glory
    Just to save you a click, but you have to hover the cursor over a person or that person's monitor (target/focus frame, Grid, or other implementation of showing party members). Replace Word of Glory with Flash of Light, Lay on Hands, Hand of Protection/Sacrifice/Salvation/Purity/Freedom, and Cleanse for other macros if desired.

    Addition to the above that I use for Sacred Shield:
    Code:
    /cast [@mouseover,exists,noharm][@player]Sacred Shield
    Allows you to not have to hover over yourself each time you want to refresh Sacred Shield, and still allows you to cast it on others if desired.

    Another variation of the above, for the relevant talents in the sixth tier:
    Code:
    /cast [@mouseover,exists,noharm][@target]Execution Sentence
    Replace Execution Sentence with Holy Prism if desired. This'll cast it on any friendly target you have your cursor over, or on your target if you're not moused over someone.

    Probably not worth much, but macros on abilities that don't initiate autoattack themselves:
    Code:
    /startattack
    /cast Holy Wrath
    Replace Holy Wrath with Hammer of Wrath, Consecration, or Avenger's Shield for other macros if desired.

    Have one that clears a couple hands:
    Code:
    /cancelaura Hand of Salvation
    /cancelaura Hand of Protection
    Especially now that Hand of Salvation can be used to completely wipe threat for its duration again. Any other buffs you deem worthy could be added in the same manner.

    Enhancing a cooldown with a trinket:
    Code:
    /use 13
    /cast Holy Avenger
    The use 13 means it activates your first trinket's secondary ability if it has one, mine at the moment being Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage, gives HA a bit more of a mitigation percentage in addition to the full uptime on SotR. Replace 13 with 14 if you want to use your second trinket instead, or replace Holy Avenger with Avenging Wrath if specced into Sanctified Wrath if desired.
    Last edited by Elathi; 2012-12-01 at 05:17 PM.

  18. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elathi View Post

    Enhancing a cooldown with a trinket:
    Code:
    /use 13
    /cast Holy Avenger
    The use 13 means it activates your first trinket's secondary ability if it has one, mine at the moment being Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage, gives HA a bit more of a mitigation percentage in addition to the full uptime on SotR. Replace 13 with 14 if you want to use your second trinket instead, or replace Holy Avenger with Avenging Wrath if specced into Sanctified Wrath if desired.
    Stacking defensive cooldowns isn't optimal.

  19. #579
    As with many things regarding tanking, you can't really say that with absolute certainty (heroic Madness of Deathwing comes to mind as an exception to that rule). Additionally, I'm kind of a dummy and would normally forget to use my trinkets anyway unless it's something with a highly noticeable and specifically used effect like Mirror of Broken Images.

  20. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elathi View Post
    As with many things regarding tanking, you can't really say that with absolute certainty (heroic Madness of Deathwing comes to mind as an exception to that rule). Additionally, I'm kind of a dummy and would normally forget to use my trinkets anyway unless it's something with a highly noticeable and specifically used effect like Mirror of Broken Images.
    In that case it is better for you, but again, not at all optimal.

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