1. #721
    Brewmaster Xothic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    Which enchant is better for tanking after the river's song ppm change?
    It's been colossus for quite some time I believe.

    10 man only however, not certain about 25 man.
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  2. #722
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    Which enchant is better for tanking after the river's song ppm change?
    Colossus is the best.

  3. #723
    Banned MerinPally's Avatar
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    As said by the other 2 (and in the guide itself if you went down to the enchants section) Colossus is definitely the best for 10man at the moment I don't know if that changes going into 25man.

  4. #724
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    What is the rough ICD of Colossus? Just curious as to see whether it gets better with Haste...

  5. #725
    Brewmaster Xothic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    What is the rough ICD of Colossus? Just curious as to see whether it gets better with Haste...
    From memory you can get 6PPM on Colossus after the buff.
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  6. #726
    Banned MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post
    From memory you can get 6PPM on Colossus after the buff.
    This is correct, just to confirm.

  7. #727
    Control/mastery vs Control/haste.

    Everyone and their parents (including fershly dinged paladintanks) are gemming haste like mad .I dont really like haste being a tankstat and such so I went control/mastery,but people keep telling I'M retarded.
    I'm in a 10man hc guild doing hardmodes tho not at cuttingedge levels oubviously and tankdps is very very rarely a concern.

    Should I still go haste or control mastery is just as viable? (even tho everyone -even the people writing the guides and suggesting that it is equally good- went for haste?)

  8. #728
    Is it viable? Yes
    Is it as viable? In 99% of cases in 10 man, no.

  9. #729
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordixlol View Post
    I dont really like haste being a tankstat and such so I went control/mastery,but people keep telling I'M retarded.
    They would be right with that. In 10mans haste is way more valuable due to the dps alone, let alone the control you can have over your survivability when compared to mastery.

  10. #730
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turvakapsu View Post
    They would be right with that. In 10mans haste is way more valuable due to the dps alone, let alone the control you can have over your survivability when compared to mastery.
    Well, they're not really right. It's come up enough that haste and mastery are relatively equal, with haste providing extra DPS. If his raid, by his own account, doesn't have trouble with DPS, then it doesn't really matter which stat build he chooses.

  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Well, they're not really right. It's come up enough that haste and mastery are relatively equal, with haste providing extra DPS. If his raid, by his own account, doesn't have trouble with DPS, then it doesn't really matter which stat build he chooses.
    Doesn't really matter doesn't mean optimal, and as far as I'm aware, the better you can do the... better.

    There are only some very specific fights you'd want to favour mastery over haste for 10mans (primarily Sha of Fear), and overall haste is just stronger in all aspects of it. There is a good reason why pretty much everyone uses haste instead of mastery for 10mans (obviously of which some are people who just copy other paladins though).

  12. #732
    To say that mastery is viable is fine, but to say that it is equal to haste in 10 man environment is just straight up not seeing the facts in front of you. There are some specific fights and setups that may favor mastery, however in the vast majority of the cases haste will always come on top.

    Also. "We have enough dps" is the most stupid argument ever. You can never have to much dps. More dps will make bosses easier. Does not matter if you are pulling 500k or 700k raid dps, if you can increase your dps by 30k, its still a big deal.

    To be completely honest, I do not feel like "tanking" is that much of an issue. As a tank, I feel like the biggest challenge is to put out the dps numbers since the tanking does not really matter much. There are more fights where I thought "Shit, I need to do more dps" than "Shit, I need to tank better".

    Only fight where I ever had to think about my tanking was Empress ( 6 adds ) and WoTE, and both of those was just a quick fix, just couldn't go completely mindless on them. Not like it were ever an issue.

    Though, I have thought and practiced alot to increase my dps on

    Stone Guards HC
    Feng HC
    Gara'Jal HC
    Elegon N and HC
    WoTE N and HC

    Gara'lon
    Windlord

    Tsulong

    These are all fights where I actually thought alot on how to maximise my dps since it was very much needed. So all in all, I really think that dps is the more "important" part of a tank duty this tier since the tanking, is not really that hard. Could probably gear for spirit and still tank solidly.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-01-03 at 07:58 PM.

  13. #733
    Hello, new-ish protection paladin here! I am not sure where exactly to ask this, but I figured this would be at least in the right direction.
    I just received a head token from LFR Sha of Fear. Now I've heard this and that about protection set bonuses and the itemization on the gear, so I thought I'd make sure before making a purchase: how well does using better itemized pieces compare to protection set bonuses? While dodge and parry are not the most optimal stats, they aren't terrible either, so I'm leaning towards set bonuses with my limited knowledge, even if they're not as impressive as they could be.
    This is for 10-man by the way if that makes a difference.

    Also, if going for the set bonuses: which off-set piece would be best? Using retribution tier legs instead of protection ones is looking pretty decent in my eyes, but I was just wondering if there's any obviously better options available.

    Thank you in advance for your time

  14. #734
    Personally I am not going for the protection set. Wether protection or retri set is better for prot paladins can be debated. The two are not directly comparable.

    My own choice is to go for retribution set as I feel it fits my playstyle better. Though I am letting everyone else in the group take tiers first. I won't use it until I got 4p.

    I am probably going for hands off-set. Though I will keep a full off-set set for those fights I do not want set bonus as off set pieces are better itemized than the set pieces.

  15. #735
    I'm letting all the dps and healers get their Tier gear first, then I'll collect it. You are far more likely to get stuck on a dps check or healing check than you are a tank check.
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  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    I'm letting all the dps and healers get their Tier gear first, then I'll collect it. You are far more likely to get stuck on a dps check or healing check than you are a tank check.
    Tank checks are almost non existant in this tier, and even in those cases, having tier set or not will not make any difference.
    So yeah, dps and healer should take prio on tier.

  17. #737
    @Dragonland If you're going as haste heavy as possible you are correct in swapping legs out but you'll want to swap them out for the dps legs off will of emp instead of ret tier.

    Personally I probably won't be using either prot or ret 4set pieces as the haste loss compared to the bonuses gained from those pieces just doesn't seem worth it to me.

  18. #738
    Alright, thanks for your answers, much appreciated!

  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Tank checks are almost non existant in this tier, and even in those cases, having tier set or not will not make any difference.
    So yeah, dps and healer should take prio on tier.
    "Tank checks" are all but non-existent in the entire game, you can probably count off the tank checks since classic on one hand. Any time the tank dies, either he effed up, a healer effed up, or you just use an external cooldown to cover the gear deficit. It is almost never a gear issue (even if people like to think that they are dying because their gear sucks.) The only way that the tank can be challenged is awareness and reaction tests - Stone Guards, Will, Zorlok, Garalon, Lei Shi; all bosses that demand the tank do something specific, but they don't require any gear as such. If you can avoid the Dance, you can do it naked.
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  20. #740
    Well, comparing start of cata and start of mop, I think that T11 had alot more tank checks than this tier have. Now, tank check is a matter of defintion. For me it is when you actually gotta actively think alot on your playstyle. Generally, I would define it as a fight where tanks have a good responsibility and a small fuck up is a wipe. Given, a fuck up on any fight for a tank is bad, though talking about the less lenient fights.

    If I can make it through a fight without using any defensive cds, or just maybe using a defensive cd when boss does ultimate ability of doom death volcano, then it is not a tank check, but a fight that requires constant focus and losing focus just for a second during most part of the fight = wipe, then it is a tank check in my eyes.

    In T11 for example, Chimaeron double attack tanking, Maloriak HC tanking, Magmaw Add tanking, even a fight like Omnotron HC just in terms of positioning. Nef HC add tanking, Halfus HC and Conclave HC, all of these are fights that I personally thought was more challenging than basically every fight in this tier from a tank PoV.

    I was however raiding 25 man in cata and 10 man now in MoP so that is a step down in difficulty.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-01-05 at 01:27 AM.
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