1. #1

    Can't Wrap Head Around Priority

    Hi everyone,

    I've been reading these forums for years, but have never been so bothered that I actually posted, until now. I just picked up a ret pally after playing casters and healers for my entire WoW career, and am just confused on how to go about thinking about the priority list.

    I know there are add-ons, such as clcret, that I can use in order to learn the rotation. However, I don't want to use a crutch and become reliant on it. I'd rather learn the class and think for myself. I was just hoping someone could clarify, or gibe me a better way at thinking about the rotation. Memorizing 16 different priorities for each talent combination doesn't seem to be working or productive for me.

    I guess this is how I'm thinking of it, and would appreciate any input or words from more seasoned rets that could help me along (I attached the basic priority below from Solsacra's thread, just as a reference and something to go off of...hopefully the formatting isn't too awful)

    1) ES/LH makes sense because it's a 1 minute CD and a lot of damage.
    2+3) DP and EDS next with less than 3 seconds remaining also makes sense to me, because you don't want to be wasting any prods, regardless of if they are netting holy power.
    4) TV5 next also makes sense because you don't want to be wasting Holy Power
    5) HoW - High damage and generates HP, I get that
    6) Won't have t17 for a while but makes sense
    7) This is where the confusion comes in for me. I'm not understanding why casting TV with avenging wrath up, or below 35% falls where it is. Below HoW, but above CS
    8) Also, why is Crusader strike more important than EDS with AW or <35%?

    And then everything below just makes much less sense to me than the first 6 did (aside from 13-15)

    I just don't know if there's a way of looking at this that I'm missing, or is it simply just memorizing this long priority list for every single talent combination? Sorry if this is long winded, just trying to learn.

    Thanks again for any help. It is much appreciated.

    Priority

    1 - ES / LH
    2 - DP(-3)
    3 - EDS(-3)
    4 - TV5 Templar's Verdict
    5 - HoW Hammer of Wrath
    6 - ExoBC
    7 - TV CD/Exec
    8 - CS Crusader Strike
    9 - EDS CD/Exec
    10 - J
    11 - DP Divine Purpose
    12 - EDS Empowered Divine Storm
    13 - TV4 Templar's Verdict
    14 - Exo Exorcism
    15 - TV3 Templar's Verdict

  2. #2
    It's quite simple. The reason CS, J etc are higher prioritized than FV/TV at 4 HP is because you need to stack HP for cooldowns. When you're in execute phase or have avenging wrath ticking, you can use Hammer, which means you will never be HP starved since you can always, in the worst case scenario, go Hammer -> CS -> J -> TV -> Hammer -> CS -> J -> TV -> Hammer and so on.

    As for the second question, I can only assume it's because EDS doesn't do good enough damage compared to CS. If you run FV, EDS with FV buff should be prioritized over CS during execute/AW.
    Last edited by tobberoth; 2015-01-09 at 03:42 PM.

  3. #3
    Yeah the way I see it, is :

    During AW, you want to cast as much HoW, TV / Procced EDS as you can. For this to happen, you will need only HoW / CS / TV / EDS.
    Also during AW and outside of it, you don't want to be at 5 HP when next GCD could be a HP generator, so you'd be better off TVing at say 4HP, then using the newly available generator. Your focus thus should be two sided : generate as much HP as possible without wasting it, cast as much spenders as possible without delaying your next generators. All the while prioritizing your lowest CD / Highest throughput spells : How > CS > J > Exo for generators, TV > free EDS > EDS > DS. Weave in ES/LH, and you got it.

    That may not be the mathematical optimal rotation, and there's still thinking to do from your part (when to use your free EDS procs, for example, particularly during AW phase), but that's how I like to think about my rotation, and it seems to work pretty fine (around 30k on butcher with 660 ilvl).

  4. #4
    there's still thinking to do from your part (when to use your free EDS procs, for example, particularly during AW phase)
    This is where I get confused in what is a good use of DP and your free EDS proc. Outside of AW/Execute, I'm understanding the priority above to mean I should be using EDS with a DP proc when they both have less than 3 seconds left. Otherwise I should use DP proc on TV/FV (if DP -3 remaining and EDS +3 remaining), build back up to 5 HP and consume the free EDS since by then you'll be ~ -3 seconds remaining. Am I understanding this right?
    Last edited by Excelion; 2015-01-09 at 05:35 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Excelion View Post
    This is where I get confused in what is a good use of DP and your free EDS proc. Outside of AW/Execute, I'm understanding the priority above to mean I should be using EDS with a DP proc when they both have less than 3 seconds left. Otherwise I should use DP proc on TV/FV (if DP -3 remaining and EDS +3 remaining), build back up to 5 HP and consume the free EDS since by then you'll be ~ -3 seconds remaining. Am I understanding this right?
    How sorry didn't see you played as DP, the rota I gave you is the one I use as AW, and i was talking about the free DS you sometimes gain from using your spenders. The way I use it is when I have like 2 HP, CS and J coming back off cd soon, this way i go free EDS -> CS -> J -> CS ou CS -> J -> EDS -> CS depending on my haste buffs (BL, shroom, etc), then I'm back at 5 HP to spend on a TV and get my DS buff up again, up and ready to follow with this rota or the base one depending on wether it procced or not. The rule of thumb I follow is to never use EDS without that free + DMG up DS proc too, but I don't know how I would factor DP in this honestly.

  6. #6
    The way I play (I started ret in WoD, first time ever) is in the following way:

    I use Sanctified Wrath with 15% (or well, 14,69) haste, so at pull I do: Arcane Torrent, AW, ES, Hammer, Exo, Hammer, CS, Hammer, J , Hammer, CS, Hammer and so on, always using either CS or Exo if it proccs, ignoring J if I can cast either of those two. After that for me it's simply a question of: Can I cast either CS or Exo? No? Then J and Final Verdict if I have 4 or 5 HP, but I'm not that picky and will use it at 3 as well if need be.

    I hit my simulated DPS, and I burst like a maniac. So I don't find retri rotation/prio very hard at least. But what will truly help you is if you get 15% haste with raidbuffs and use Sanctified Wrath.

    Armory: (can't post links, damnit) EU armory, Char "Slugatuttar"

    Don't overthink it, just do it!

    EDIT: Always use Divine Storm Proccs with your Final Verdict buff if you're doing single target. On multi target fights with 3 or more I can step away from that principle, simply because my brain tells me it's fun to see large numbers in close succession.
    Last edited by TheLea; 2015-01-11 at 01:22 AM.

  7. #7
    There is no reason to use exorcism over judge unless its glyped and there are multiple enemies up. Also you should ES as you run in not after AW is popped cause you are losing a gcd in it.

  8. #8
    7) This is where the confusion comes in for me. I'm not understanding why casting TV with avenging wrath up, or below 35% falls where it is. Below HoW, but above CS
    8) Also, why is Crusader strike more important than EDS with AW or <35%?

    No idea what you're asking. Seems like you understand 70% or more of the rotation. My best advice is to be very careful who's advice you listen to. Most threads like this asking for help are filled with trash advice.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetNoata View Post
    There is no reason to use exorcism over judge unless its glyped and there are multiple enemies up. Also you should ES as you run in not after AW is popped cause you are losing a gcd in it.
    The ES thing, you are quite correct! I am one of those oldfags that can't get used to the lack of snapshotting. I do still use it as I run in though.

    But the Exo vs J thing, Judgement deals ~2k less damage than exorcism and crusader strike, why would I cast judgement if I can cast one of those two instead, unless you mean it's because Exorcism does not procc a seal (but even then it still deals less total damage eventual thruth multistrikes not withstanding)? Exorcism proccs with decent regularity and I have AW up pretty damn often + mobs being under 35%. So more often than not I have no use for judgement unless I'm channeling my rangedpalapowers.

    Like I said, I am still relatively new to retri, and I would like to hear the logic behind your reasoning! I live and learn.

  10. #10
    New to ret check out http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...amp-Discussion and all 125 pages.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But the simple answer is because of the cooldown. Lets say you use exorcism and then judgment. and then dont get an AoW Proc. You are now waiting longer for 2 fillers.

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