1. #2701
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    With Unbreakable Spirit (halves the cooldown of Divine Shield, Divine Protection, Lay on Hands)
    Divine Protection: 60 seconds, reduced to 30 seconds by the talent. Reduced to 18 seconds by the trinket.
    Divine Shield: 300 seconds, reduced to 150 seconds by the talent. Reduced to 90 seconds by the trinket.
    Avenging Wrath: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket
    Devotion Aura: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket
    Ardent Defender: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket
    Guardian of Ancient Kings: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket.
    Sweet. Fucking. Baby. Raptor. Jesus.

    60% uptime on DivProt and ~100% uptime on ShotR. AND we can bubble every 90 seconds?

    Do you hear that, boys? The sound of all the prot warrior/DK tears? It's like rain.



    Edit: Obviously it's early, but interesting that http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=102298#comments also has the same spells listed for Readiness. So, we could potentially get the 11k STR proc option instead? Obviously I can't see us being able to STACK them (though HOLY SHIT that'd be insane)...but even still, I'd take the STR proc over the HP buff on a 3min CD 99% of the time.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-06-28 at 04:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  2. #2702
    Don't forget AD every 2 minutes and the auto-save every 60 seconds. For the extremely unlikely event of a tank "dying".
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  3. #2703
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Don't forget AD every 2 minutes and the auto-save every 60 seconds. For the extremely unlikely event of a tank "dying".
    Sadly we can't cheese those for Vengeance apparently.

    But yeah, with <2min AD/GoAK, almost perma DivProt/ShotR, AND <2min wings, Devo and bubble for good measure....do you really think we NEED the tank cloak?

    Tank deaths (in 10H anyway) are already a rarity. Adding in all of these above "buffs" means that we've got a bolus of CDs constantly up, overlapping at times. Unless they scale up tank damage (taken) drastically in t16, which they may, I don't see the raid-benefit of the tank cape vs extra DPS/cleave cape.

    This isn't even figuring the terrible vs great itemization arguments either.

    Maybe I'm selling it short, and we don't know the actual damage ranges yet, but when I saw the cloak proc for tanks, all I could think of (again, from a 10H perspective) was "meh". With the nerf/change to the 4pc tier, I still don't feel any desire to run the tank meta, tank cape, or tank tier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  4. #2704
    You should be able to swap the cloaks from what they've mentioned anyway, potentially even having one of each, so if that is the case (although I'm doubtful if this will apply to the legendary variants) you'll be able to do it all on a fight by fight basis.

  5. #2705
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Sweet. Fucking. Baby. Raptor. Jesus.

    60% uptime on DivProt and ~100% uptime on ShotR. AND we can bubble every 90 seconds?

    Do you hear that, boys? The sound of all the prot warrior/DK tears? It's like rain.



    Edit: Obviously it's early, but interesting that http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=102298#comments also has the same spells listed for Readiness. So, we could potentially get the 11k STR proc option instead? Obviously I can't see us being able to STACK them (though HOLY SHIT that'd be insane)...but even still, I'd take the STR proc over the HP buff on a 3min CD 99% of the time.
    The line, "Effective for Stength-based damage roles only" makes me think we would not be able to use that over the tank version, unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  6. #2706
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    The line, "Effective for Stength-based damage roles only" makes me think we would not be able to use that over the tank version, unfortunately.
    But...we use STR for damage! Seriously, though, I saw that too and figured it'd be the case at least the HP on-use is less shitty than the "passive dodge, with on-use dodge" abomination they created.

    STOP. GIEFING. DODGE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  7. #2707
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    But...we use STR for damage! Seriously, though, I saw that too and figured it'd be the case at least the HP on-use is less shitty than the "passive dodge, with on-use dodge" abomination they created.

    STOP. GIEFING. DODGE.
    Yup, we do, but it's not our role. Even when we (or any other tank) tops dps

    But yes. Stop giving dodge!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  8. #2708
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Sadly we can't cheese those for Vengeance apparently.

    But yeah, with <2min AD/GoAK, almost perma DivProt/ShotR, AND <2min wings, Devo and bubble for good measure....do you really think we NEED the tank cloak?

    Tank deaths (in 10H anyway) are already a rarity. Adding in all of these above "buffs" means that we've got a bolus of CDs constantly up, overlapping at times. Unless they scale up tank damage (taken) drastically in t16, which they may, I don't see the raid-benefit of the tank cape vs extra DPS/cleave cape.

    This isn't even figuring the terrible vs great itemization arguments either.

    Maybe I'm selling it short, and we don't know the actual damage ranges yet, but when I saw the cloak proc for tanks, all I could think of (again, from a 10H perspective) was "meh". With the nerf/change to the 4pc tier, I still don't feel any desire to run the tank meta, tank cape, or tank tier.
    "Meh" is a generous reaction

    It's an insulting proc frankly. To good players, it's pretty irrelevant, as "tank death" is almost non-existent. Who, posting on this thread, has died unexpectedly in the past month on a fight you knew fairly well? I guess for the first few pulls, as you adjust to the timing and pace of damage, you may die, but after that you should have it on lockdown.

    For the rest of the playerbase, it just promotes skilless and lazy play. Woops, a bit late on that SotR weren't ya buddy? Got overwhelmed and didn't press Ardent Defender fast enough? Forgot that you have Guardian on your actionbar? No problem, because every minute we're going to bail you out. It's a throwback to the days of exclusive avoidance, where all you did was manipulate numbers and sit comfortably in the shield that was CTC cap.

  9. #2709
    Presuming those numbers make it live with that CD reduction trinkets, lets check the SotR uptimes with this bad boy. So you got two options, SW or DP. Presuming your HoPo regen rate to be 1.12*(1/3)1/4.5, or 0.5955, with DP you will see a 79.4% average.
    SW has a 109 second CD, resulting in about 77.9% average uptime. What is to be noted with this however is that it gives you 100% uptime for a large part of the fight and then 50% uptime for a different part of a fight while DP is more consistent, for good and evil. Also just the way cooldowns work, if you have a segment of the fight that is 150 seconds long you get to use SW twice making its real uptime higher then the average.
    What we also need to remember about DP is that 4p,,, with it we are looking at about 89.4% uptime.

    So what we are looking at is

    SW: 77.9% uptime ~ depending on how many times you get to use it on a fight
    DP: 79.4%
    DP + 4p: 89.4%
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #2710
    The cloak is either going to be mandatory to the point of not taking a tank if they don't have it, or pointless enough for everybody to just take the dps one in the hope of killing the boss a few seconds faster.

    There isn't really going to be a middle-ground there.
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    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  11. #2711
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Having an auto-use AD effect every 1 min isn't that attractive to me, as least. Only situation I can see it being really useful is if SoO has heavy tank-hitting mechanics that can easily one-shot you (i.e. HC Madness' Impale). Apart from that I dunno, if I get to the point where I'll die it's usually a wipe already. Only progression bosses from ToT that it might be useful is Horridon (hey lol 7 stack triple puncture incoming! oh shit i forgot sh... BAM) and maybe Primordius (but this one does so much damage via dots that even if the cloak saves you one time it's possible the next couple ticks will kill you anyway, but you might still get saved so that's that).

    On the other hand, like pointed out before, unless SoO does have said tank-crushing abilities all over, this seems more friendly towards "newb" tanks/healers which is great and all that but feels a bit underwhelming if you don't find your tank dying a normal thing.


  12. #2712
    Yeah, I am on the same page as you guys. That cloak proc is not really that attractive. Dps cloak proc seems much more appealing
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #2713
    DPS proc all the way. if it scales with the haste too, it'll be godlike.

  14. #2714
    Quote Originally Posted by zloitima View Post
    DPS proc all the way. if it scales with the haste too, it'll be godlike.
    Mhmm, looking at the fights like gen nazgrim, going to be fairly nice dps at the start.

    Actually does anyone know if we have any "damaging spells" besides HW / Holy prism ? Judgement ?

  15. #2715
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Mhmm, looking at the fights like gen nazgrim, going to be fairly nice dps at the start.

    Actually does anyone know if we have any "damaging spells" besides HW / Holy prism ? Judgement ?
    In what context? Damaging spells for some proc?

    The intellect dps cloak?
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #2716
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    In what context? Damaging spells for some proc?

    The intellect dps cloak?
    Mhmm, seems like 36k dmg from the proc (even if only 6k are instant) might be > 360% weapon dmg. (Especially if it scales with SP, which it probably does)

    EDIT : or not, forgot that it's 60% x 6 times. Might be worth calculating it later on.

  17. #2717
    I dont think we will know for sure until we get those cloaks, how they interact. There are other things to consider. Such as it is very possible that the melee cloak will proc SoI for us and that would be awesome.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #2718
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I dont think we will know for sure until we get those cloaks, how they interact. There are other things to consider. Such as it is very possible that the melee cloak will proc SoI for us and that would be awesome.
    Until they fix it because our healing scaling with aoe isn't intended, like when it worked with HotR. It'll proc GotO for monks though because they're allowed to scale on aoe (curse you SCK spewing green orbs everywhere)

  19. #2719
    Quote Originally Posted by Animma View Post
    Until they fix it because our healing scaling with aoe isn't intended, like when it worked with HotR. It'll proc GotO for monks though because they're allowed to scale on aoe (curse you SCK spewing green orbs everywhere)
    I think that is so bullshit on my monk. As you can decide where your GotO spawn, I usually make 3-4 pools of a lot of orbs, before starting to put them randomly a bit all over the place, basically allowing me to have 4 LoHs on my monk whenever I need it. Really think that is stupid.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #2720
    just out of curiousity. im currently on 15.5k haste buffed. i feel its a sweet number to sit at if watching sotr uptime. if i found a sweet spot,can i stay there and get more mastery/stam or will that be worse then getting more haste?

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