1. #3041
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Come SoO, I may (ok, WILL) abuse the new GC by tanking as many adds as possible, but I won't be introducing additional/external packs in the name of vengeance.
    I am totally on the same page, introducing additional adds or external trash packs in the name of vengeance should never be done during progress.

    However...

    Sometimes you can safely introduce additional adds or trash packs that does nothing other than melee hitting the tanking, giving you free GC procs, by extension dps and hopo generation which leads to higher SotR uptime making you tankier, not squisher, aswell as the added benefit of more vengeance.
    As long as you can introduce those extra adds in a safe environment, i.e. they wont bash your skull in and break your neck like a toothpick, I see no reason why not to.

    Blizzard is giving us a great (readas: broken) tool that makes us scale with the amount of attackers we have one us in terms of our dps and damage mitigation, if we can get more weak hitting mobs on us other than the boss, then why the heck not. Add on top of that additional vengeance.
    We might aswell abuse this as much as possible, with caution however.



    And btw, I love the paladin forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    the bigger issue is wtf are you tanking with that your co-tank can't one tank fights? A mage?
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  2. #3042
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Sometimes you can safely introduce additional adds or trash packs that does nothing other than melee hitting the tanking, giving you free GC procs, by extension dps and hopo generation which leads to higher SotR uptime making you tankier, not squisher, aswell as the added benefit of more vengeance.
    As long as you can introduce those extra adds in a safe environment, i.e. they wont bash your skull in and break your neck like a toothpick, I see no reason why not to.

    Blizzard is giving us a great (readas: broken) tool that makes us scale with the amount of attackers we have one us in terms of our dps and damage mitigation, if we can get more weak hitting mobs on us other than the boss, then why the heck not. Add on top of that additional vengeance.
    We might aswell abuse this as much as possible, with caution however.
    I'm not disagreeing, it's certainly doable in both theory AND practice. I'm just too lazy to really care to try and abuse it. As you said, it's a bit too reckless/chaotic/Murphy's Law for me to feel good using it for progression. And, after progression, it's just farm (at which point I mostly stop caring).

    We've got great tools to use (abuse) to eek out amazing numbers after the GC "nerf" (lulz), I'm just a bit too lazy to use them. But I will certainly use them for fights with native adds! Much like I do now with FS/FW glyphs and farming warbringers, leaving up the scarabs for lol-GC spam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  3. #3043
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    Half the time we just bring in another dps for our DK OT who has shit for dps gear (the joys of having 2-3 warriors, 2 DK's, myself and our 3rd tank all taking dps gear). But in reality we only solo tank Iron Qon and Durumu. The joys of 25H.
    My main is a dps DK in a 25m with warrior and dk tanks, 3 dps dks, 3 dps warriors, and 1 ret paladin. So much gear competition. We don't have a prot paladin in the gear competition at least, although we'd be better off with one. And we just started 25H animus last week, with 90% of the wipes so far being stupidity with font or adds linking (usually from multidotters pulling threat off healers). I hope it doesn't take us too long to kill but I can foresee many more wipes.

    @Drummerboy My prot paladin alt (raids weekends 10m) is in a similar situation to you. Not the strongest raiders, just a few heroics down, etc. We've still found it a significant dps gain for me to solo tank fights like Qon (esp heroic) and Durumu, even though my druid cotank's feral dps is atrocious. It might be a bit harder with a warrior cotank, since his tanking gear is not going to be particularly great for dpsing, but if you play well you can do an enormous amount of dps and healing solo tanking. Just something to consider.

  4. #3044
    I'm considering building a dodge/parry/crit build for all of the "manyadds" fights, just so i can spam critical as for the entire fight (inb4 666 9 666 9 rotation)

  5. #3045
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    but the bigger issue is wtf are you tanking with that your co-tank can't one tank fights? A mage?
    HKM anyone ?

  6. #3046
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    2,628
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    it's a bit too reckless/chaotic/Murphy's Law for me to feel good using it for progression.
    But Murphy's Law has the coolest Pala Tank ever and probably the one holding the record for the most MMO-Champ bans and infractions.



  7. #3047
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    But Murphy's Law has the coolest Pala Tank ever and probably the one holding the record for the most MMO-Champ bans and infractions.

    Idk, every time firefly takes a trip down to general / raid discussion he gets banned :/

  8. #3048
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    2,628
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Idk, every time firefly takes a trip down to general / raid discussion he gets banned :/
    I understand.

    Half the posts I open over there I just feel like quoting someone and asking "... Are you retarded?".


  9. #3049
    Everytime I get a PM (notification on MMO-Champ) my first thought is "Wtf did I get an infraction for now?"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    I'm considering building a dodge/parry/crit build for all of the "manyadds" fights, just so i can spam critical as for the entire fight (inb4 666 9 666 9 rotation)
    You would probably get more gain from haste than crit to be honest.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #3050
    Are there any demon trashpacks in SoO? Then make some warlocks enslave them and free them during the fight for more adds...
    Btw: I don't like this whole cheating stuff like sit-tanking, trash-to-boss-pulling etc. neither. Maybe the animus-tactics with 2 rings and CDs is the maximum i would use. Everything beyond this just feels wrong...

  11. #3051
    Banned MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    10,385
    Quote Originally Posted by DorfSchrat View Post
    Are there any demon trashpacks in SoO? Then make some warlocks enslave them and free them during the fight for more adds...
    Btw: I don't like this whole cheating stuff like sit-tanking, trash-to-boss-pulling etc. neither. Maybe the animus-tactics with 2 rings and CDs is the maximum i would use. Everything beyond this just feels wrong...
    Feels wrong to myself as well but I can't say I wouldn't do it. Farm content can get extraordinarily boring, we were clearing DS hc 8/8 in 2 hours and that was with slacking and usually a 30minute break during which time we did strange shit like a Star Trek quiz over vent. It's at that point where you just try and spice it up a bit by getting that bit more dps without putting yourself in more danger because the time delay if you wipe, is relatively large.

    We were all basically BiS minus about 1 or 2 items back then (I was still using hc Baleroc shield) and by that point, you're overgearing even heroic content. The scope for playing and bringing excitement without adding extra danger, becomes the task in the same way that "killing the boss" did the first time round.

  12. #3052
    Anyone here try the proving grounds? I've not done it, but I'm annoyed that it scales us down to 463, back to the days of primitive haste.

  13. #3053
    Banned MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    10,385
    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    Anyone here try the proving grounds? I've not done it, but I'm annoyed that it scales us down to 463, back to the days of primitive haste.
    Same as challenge modes though - the better gear you have, you still have an advantage albeit slight. More gem slots for a start. Even now, a very very very well geared (say BiS) protadin can have 20 gem slots each with 320 haste in. That's 6400 haste just from gems, and believe me that's more than you have in full 463 gear if you get hit and exp capped. Also, as hit and exp remain unchanged, higher gear = fewer items with hit and exp on as the numbers are higher. This leads to more items with other stats on, so whilst scaled down, you will still have more of them than the first time round.

    Yeah your haste will tumble and it'll suck, but you'll still have more stats than if you actually had 463 gear, just due to item budgets and reforging and stuff. A noticeable amount but that's only because of how low they can actually be

  14. #3054
    Quote Originally Posted by DorfSchrat View Post
    Are there any demon trashpacks in SoO? Then make some warlocks enslave them and free them during the fight for more adds...
    Btw: I don't like this whole cheating stuff like sit-tanking, trash-to-boss-pulling etc. neither. Maybe the animus-tactics with 2 rings and CDs is the maximum i would use. Everything beyond this just feels wrong...
    This...this is genius. Though they'd likely just get cleaved to hell, but we have 2 locks in our 10m, could be a fun game. Also, sit-tanking is being broken in 5.4, and there have been hints at environmental damage not giving vengeance anymore also. Most fire doesn't now, but it's a very sporadic coding (shocking, I know!).

    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Feels wrong to myself as well but I can't say I wouldn't do it. Farm content can get extraordinarily boring, we were clearing DS hc 8/8 in 2 hours and that was with slacking and usually a 30minute break during which time we did strange shit like a Star Trek quiz over vent. It's at that point where you just try and spice it up a bit by getting that bit more dps without putting yourself in more danger because the time delay if you wipe, is relatively large.
    Bolded the important part, since this is probably the biggest reason that I stop caring about pushing ranks on farm. Last night, for instance, we had to 8/9man most of our heroic clear since we're having mid-summer attendance issues. We had some mistakes from that (lol disc priest got EVERY. SINGLE. ICE TORRENT. on Meg) as well as just general poor play, so me trying something new to push a rank would've just added complexity or room for error. This didn't stop me from doing stupid shit (had ~24 stacks on Horridon and forgot to have a CD up going to a new door. DC/TP unmit to the face = lol), but you get my point.

    Ugh, what a shit raid ><

    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    Anyone here try the proving grounds? I've not done it, but I'm annoyed that it scales us down to 463, back to the days of primitive haste.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Same as challenge modes though - the better gear you have, you still have an advantage albeit slight. More gem slots for a start. Even now, a very very very well geared (say BiS) protadin can have 20 gem slots each with 320 haste in. That's 6400 haste just from gems, and believe me that's more than you have in full 463 gear if you get hit and exp capped. Also, as hit and exp remain unchanged, higher gear = fewer items with hit and exp on as the numbers are higher. This leads to more items with other stats on, so whilst scaled down, you will still have more of them than the first time round.

    Yeah your haste will tumble and it'll suck, but you'll still have more stats than if you actually had 463 gear, just due to item budgets and reforging and stuff. A noticeable amount but that's only because of how low they can actually be
    Based on the videos put up, they don't look difficult. At all. It's more of an attrition fight than an actual skill check. I couldn't tell from the DK if we could passively (or actively) heal the NPC as a tank, but if so, I'd see this as being laughable. Gear may help some on the DPS encounter, and maybe a bit on the heals one (for mana regen purely), but I didn't see any incoming damage that was threatening. Plus, keep in mind that they are tuning this stuff for Johnny Average IN De-scaled gear, so it's not going to be rocket surgery. I'd expect it to be about on the level of cata heroics pre-nerf, at worst.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  15. #3055
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    had ~24 stacks on Horridon and forgot to have a CD up going to a new door. DC/TP unmit to the face = lol
    Reminds me of my first time trying no-reset. Ended up dying because my SS fell off right before I got a 3ple + shout + autohit in my face.

    Still Horridon is such a nice target dummy for prot pallies.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  16. #3056
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    It's at that point where you just try and spice it up a bit by getting that bit more dps without putting yourself in more danger because the time delay if you wipe, is relatively large.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Bolded the important part, since this is probably the biggest reason that I stop caring about pushing ranks on farm.
    And outside of my offtank issues this is another reason why I can't take too much of a risk with getting numbers. Raiding 2.5 hours*2 days (5 hours/week) is very limiting and any one mistake that causes a wipe on a farm boss could set us back another week with downing a progression boss. Every kill has to go down perfect if not as close to perfect as possible otherwise we're losing time. As a result we tend to use more conservative strategies. And again that limiting schedule also means we don't farm bosses unless gear is an issue, and it usually isn't. We won't even bother doing achieves that have a risky strategy because of this.

    I don't think we lack too much in skill. When we compare time spent combined with progression we are usually in line with most teams. You'd be surprised though having an hour more of raiding a week can affect your progression. And considering we walked into ToT only 4/16H (again also limited by our raiding schedule) that also meant we didn't have the gear advantages that many had.

    For SoO we're talking about adding a third night for a couple weeks just to try to get deeper faster. Considering though again we'll be walking in with minimal heroic gear I don't have the highest expectations. You can say what you what you want about whether gearing matters, I will say this. Last week after some minimal farming (due to attendance preventing progression) Tortos and Meg melted like trash mobs. I even pulled a couple shale spiders in with Meg just to try it out and my raidbot epeen was over the top but I did get a lot of "What the hell are you doing?"
    Last edited by Drummerboy; 2013-07-17 at 02:19 PM.

  17. #3057
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    because the time delay if you wipe, is relatively large.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Bolded the important part, since this is probably the biggest reason that I stop caring about pushing ranks on farm.
    I've noticed most of our wipes are due to dps/healers not paying attention and doing something derpy. Although, on Animus I have been know to just explode from trying to take too many Anima Orbs when chaining CD's. Decided to just go with the same 1 orb (350k veng) instead of trying to game 2 for 500k veng.



  18. #3058
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Reminds me of my first time trying no-reset. Ended up dying because my SS fell off right before I got a 3ple + shout + autohit in my face.

    Still Horridon is such a nice target dummy for prot pallies.
    Usually it's fine, but I've had to start drinking more/earlier since clearing is such a bore/chore now. Makes it interesting at times.

    I actually forgot which head to go to on Meg last night, and wiped us when the green breathed all over us...all the while yelling at our monk about why he was on blue. Apparently he was supposed to be there, and some other tank should have been on green. Oops. I just yelled out YOLOSWAGBITCHES, and went on my way.

    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    I've noticed most of our wipes are due to dps/healers not paying attention and doing something derpy. Although, on Animus I have been know to just explode from trying to take too many Anima Orbs when chaining CD's. Decided to just go with the same 1 orb (350k veng) instead of trying to game 2 for 500k veng.
    Yeah a lot of the mistakes aren't from my end when we wipe, but I suppose that's to be expected given that there are 9/24 other people who can also space out. And yeah, I've definitely tried "creative" ways to keep veng on Animus; taking 4 adds at the start (not much to gain there, since I'm already sitting ~capped with 3), or taking 3, killing 2 and then taking 2 more to keep that 3-stack rolling(works well unless CD's drop or a healer gets swapped). See also my Horri story. Played ping-pong with the other tank on Primo to keep our boss-stack debuff high (finished fight with like 19 stacks), though that can get dicey too.

    I dunno, anything to keep the magic. Or keep me awake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  19. #3059
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex
    Posts
    1,749
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Everytime I get a PM (notification on MMO-Champ) my first thought is "Wtf did I get an infraction for now?"
    Story of my life. I'm probably one of the most banned Paladins on this entire forum.

  20. #3060
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    2,628
    Quote Originally Posted by Felir View Post
    Story of my life. I'm probably one of the most banned Paladins on this entire forum.
    I say we hold a contest.

    What should we compare? Bans or just infractions? Any exceptions?


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •