1. #3841
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    You'd think they'd have someone assigned specifically to look out for ways to nerf ProtPal's by now...wonder how this one snuck under the radar?

    Probably the same intern who's working on making the tank legendary cloak proc. Zzzz.
    Isn't it like holiday season right now... ? :-)
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  2. #3842
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    I tanked 3-4 mobs most of the time + took alot of damage, really alot of damage at times - and my vengeance just never climbed past 50-70k. Mostly because nothing that counts as aoe / ground or whatever damage gives you vengeance anymore and those mobs don't give you enough vengeance due to the 1/n? diminishing return thingy. You really need to make sure to split the adds right down in the middle now in order to maximize vengeance / damage.

    Anybody else notice that?
    I said this the very day the change appeared in the notes/datamined notes/some blog/wherever. I'm just too lazy to search for my post now. no one seemed to care back then.

    "the only thing that will happen with this is tanks trying to pull as LESS as mobs as possible. if it is possible, you better do single pulls. + the change of standing in shit gets you no vengeance will screw aoe tanking even more." not betting anything on the exact wording though.

    it sucks that it turns out that I was somewhat right with that.
    Additionally to this, paladins used to be the kings of aoe tanking (hyjal anyone? but well, it was supported there even more because they were undead), but nowadays (even on live), paladins are quite low already. Brewmaster AoE is just beyond reasoning, DK is also very, very strong, even Druids are pulling a lot more. I have a ~470 guardian and a ~490 brewmaster, and with both it is EASIER to do MORE aoe dmg than with my ~530 paladin. I don't ask to pull ridiculous numbers, but a little equality at least in terms of dmg and snap aoe threat (even more important in my opinion) would be fair, wouldn't it?
    Last edited by xebtria; 2013-08-19 at 03:50 PM.

  3. #3843
    I tanked 3-4 mobs most of the time + took alot of damage, really alot of damage at times - and my vengeance just never climbed past 50-70k. Mostly because nothing that counts as aoe / ground or whatever damage gives you vengeance anymore and those mobs don't give you enough vengeance due to the 1/n? diminishing return thingy. You really need to make sure to split the adds right down in the middle now in order to maximize vengeance / damage.
    I expect a veritable army of hotfixes next tier to address these dramatic changes they've been making...

    On an unrelated note, I'm now a bit torn about going for t16 early to try and abuse the 4pc train. I mean, it's quite well itemized (compared to previous attempts), but I fear that the set bonus and/or HW interaction is going to get gutted, leaving me with a "meh" set of gear that could have gone to someone else instead...
    We have about 10 people on my token (3 paladins, 3 priests, 4 warlocks), most of them DPS. DPS benefit from tier more than a tank does, imo, so I'll be passing on tier for quite a while...I doubt I'll get a token, even with 25m loot, until like November.

  4. #3844
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    Additionally to this, paladins used to be the kings of aoe tanking (hyjal anyone?)
    I remember getting to 102.4% and then stacking spell power to do more threat/damage. Our scaling was very stupid the way it was done back then. Having 1k spell power was a huge boost to threat/damage for us.



  5. #3845
    High Overlord Sevona's Avatar
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    I hope we are getting buffed in the aoe-tps/dps department. I feel fine when it comes to singletarget, but HoTR and Cons feel just so weak....
    Beside that, I don't think they leave deep wounds as it is now. It's just too good imo.
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  6. #3846
    I would honestly want them to make consecration to scale with haste. Either that you can have multiple consecrations up at the same time so that they do not overlap, or that more haste increases the tick speed. This would solve our AE issues.

    Now that would of course mean a single target dps increase, so some slight nerf in some other spell could make it balanced so we dont grow out of control in single target, though I wonder if that is even needed. If consecration scaled with haste, we would still not be the best single target dps tanks.
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  7. #3847
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I would honestly want them to make consecration to scale with haste. Either that you can have multiple consecrations up at the same time so that they do not overlap, or that more haste increases the tick speed. This would solve our AE issues.

    Now that would of course mean a single target dps increase, so some slight nerf in some other spell could make it balanced so we dont grow out of control in single target, though I wonder if that is even needed. If consecration scaled with haste, we would still not be the best single target dps tanks.
    To be fair - I hardly use Cons in Single Target. I'm at 49% Haste and depending on GC proccs, there just aren't any GCD available. I can only use like every 3rd Cons anyway. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, dunno.

    But I guess it would pull ahead of holy wrath then in the priority... so it would be used more often?
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  8. #3848
    It would be used more often if it scaled, yes . GCDs available depend on fights and stuff, and if you are using hprism or not. Either way it would give you the option to delay CS in favor of Cons for more dps.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #3849
    I'm not sure if this has been answered yet, but how long is the T16 2P HoT?

  10. #3850
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    I'm not sure if this has been answered yet, but how long is the T16 2P HoT?
    10 seconds. Says so on the tier set bonus description
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  11. #3851
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    10 seconds. Says so on the tier set bonus description
    Does it? It just says, "While Divine Protection is active, 75% of the damage taken is converted into a heal over time that activates when Divine Protection fades." Am I looking at an older version?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/itemset=1188/...iumph#comments

  12. #3852
    I'd be very happy in cons's ticks scaled with haste, but base duration stayed the same.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Does it? It just says, "While Divine Protection is active, 75% of the damage taken is converted into a heal over time that activates when Divine Protection fades." Am I looking at an older version?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/itemset=1188/...iumph#comments
    and it is 10 sec, just tested on ptr

    albeit to be fair it you can only get it from :
    http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=144581

  13. #3853
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    To be fair - I hardly use Cons in Single Target. I'm at 49% Haste and depending on GC proccs, there just aren't any GCD available. I can only use like every 3rd Cons anyway. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, dunno.

    But I guess it would pull ahead of holy wrath then in the priority... so it would be used more often?
    Haste shortens your GCDs as well, so your level of haste shouldn't really impact your available GCDs. That having been said, you're right that the GCDs often just aren't there to keep Cons up continually. I get that ticks get overwritten with enough Haste but single target I rarely get to cast Cons often enough for this to be a problem.

  14. #3854
    More haste should actually increase Cons uptime since you'll have more uptime compared to cd/gcd on it.
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  15. #3855
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    More haste should actually increase Cons uptime since you'll have more uptime compared to cd/gcd on it.
    Yep, I've seen MORE clipping with high haste, since the "totem" still lasts for 9 sec, but we've got more filler openings to slot it in (that's what she said).

    Nillo - you've been a bit quiet on plans next tier. t15 4p, t16 4p, or high-haste off pieces? SS or EF? Why?
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  16. #3856
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    I actually looked at how often I used Cons last night. Either you really clip it quite early or you can't use it for a longer peroid of time. The moments where I could refresh it as soon as it dropped, without pushing my rotation back, where slim to none. Most of the time I either clipped it or had no Cons up for 3-4 seconds or longer depending on GC procs.

    So I guess one thing they could do without increasing our single target damage too much, is making it tick faster in a shorter duration the more haste you have (including its cooldown). So that the overall damage stays the same, but we could in theory up our damage (or have more aoe damage) by recasting cons faster without clipping it. Dunno if that makes sense what I mean.

    On Single target it would only increase our damage slightly for those phases where we have no other spell to use and would otherwise clip it. And on AoE it would increase our snap aggro abit (as in, you're doing the damage you would have done in 3 seconds instead of 6) and our constant AoE damage aswell by recasting it as soon as it drops.
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-08-21 at 01:12 PM.
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  17. #3857
    Not entirely related to the cons discussion, but:

    Patch 5.4 now to release on 10Sep (11Sep EU).

    Woohoo! We have time to find recruits! We've been carrying folks through 13/13 last few weeks trying to find a good match, and still not much luck
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  18. #3858
    Field Marshal Rhag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Not entirely related to the cons discussion, but:

    Patch 5.4 now to release on 10Sep (11Sep EU).

    Woohoo! We have time to find recruits! We've been carrying folks through 13/13 last few weeks trying to find a good match, and still not much luck
    WHAT? not that i dont trust you but i cant seem to find this myself any links?
    Makes me sad.. was hoping to get a new tier : /
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  19. #3859
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Please don't tell me we have to wait another 2 weeks for 5.4 ? :/

  20. #3860
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Not entirely related to the cons discussion, but:

    Patch 5.4 now to release on 10Sep (11Sep EU).

    Woohoo! We have time to find recruits! We've been carrying folks through 13/13 last few weeks trying to find a good match, and still not much luck
    Source for that date? I haven't seen/heard anything about that date.

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