1. #4701
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Excellent news - at the moment my haste is too low to warrant a double amp trinket setup to be honest, but if I can use them both to hit haste cap in a couple of upgrades time, then I'll have to give it a go.

    2x Heroic amp trinkets = (haste&mastery&critdmg&critheal) *~1.08^2 = additional ~16.5% (haste&mastery&critdmg&critheal).

    That's pretty insane.

    Will worry about it once I've got the gear to test it out

  2. #4702
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    Excellent news - at the moment my haste is too low to warrant a double amp trinket setup to be honest, but if I can use them both to hit haste cap in a couple of upgrades time, then I'll have to give it a go.

    2x Heroic amp trinkets = (haste&mastery&critdmg&critheal) *~1.08^2 = additional ~16.5% (haste&mastery&critdmg&critheal).

    That's pretty insane.

    Will worry about it once I've got the gear to test it out
    If you care about pure haste, fairly sure that H Spark still wins for a while.
    So if you want to stay at 50% you need to have more haste than with spark. However the extra mastery/crit can be welcoming.
    (Based on the fact that i can basically self sustain myself even on H blackfuse, i'll probably start going for crit over mastery)

  3. #4703
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Yeah, everything I've tanked so far (on HC BF now) has a net effect of wet noodle once I've got enough Vengeance for a nice big EF.

    Will also be moving to a crit build over Mastery, unless Klaxxi or Garrosh prove to be a totally different kettle of fish... I'm sure Spacebubble and Firefly can advise on that front!

    Also celina - pro job on the Thok 2 heal. We 4 healed it for our first kill due to comp restrictions lol, but never tried 2 healing it during progression!

  4. #4704
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    Yeah, everything I've tanked so far (on HC BF now) has a net effect of wet noodle once I've got enough Vengeance for a nice big EF.

    Will also be moving to a crit build over Mastery, unless Klaxxi or Garrosh prove to be a totally different kettle of fish... I'm sure Spacebubble and Firefly can advise on that front!

    Also celina - pro job on the Thok 2 heal. We 4 healed it for our first kill due to comp restrictions lol, but never tried 2 healing it during progression!
    Since are healers are subtly whore ranks, i can see us trying to solo heal once they get even more gear (that or dps).
    And atm we're trying out the 1 heal strat on blackfuse. If only we had less rng boss would've died by now.

  5. #4705
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Well we run a mistweaver and resto shaman setup so we never really get any heals (for instance tonight our DK died in p1on garrosh without a single direct heal in 22+ seconds. I went crit myself (wooo + 2,5k was all I could get) because I wasn't doing anywhere near the dmg our brewmaster was in transition one. I can't "really" die on any fight but paragons hc atm. Tonight I had my cloak proc from a single regular melee hit from locust (gg bubble and cloak is back up). Other fights such as Siegecrafter and garrosh my EF is enough and I don't feel more mastery is really going to be beneficial to me.

  6. #4706
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Since are healers are subtly whore ranks, i can see us trying to solo heal once they get even more gear (that or dps).
    And atm we're trying out the 1 heal strat on blackfuse. If only we had less rng boss would've died by now.
    Solo healing Thok would be OP as hell. Would love to see it done as current content without doing shit all stacks and massive kites! :P

    We are doing the Siegecrafter 1 heal strat as well, had about 5 hours on it so far, towards the end of the raid finally started hitting the 45% mark (but using our Disc priest in a shit Shadow spec due to a couple of DPS no shows). Should be looking to push to the execute range this reset at least, especially with 7 fully specced DPS in.

    What tank stacks are you guys going for?

    We are doing me at 6 which is pretty safe (managed 10 when the other tank died on one pull which was amusing) and our Warrior at 4 then starting again, but we are wiping by the time that happens at the moment.

    Thanks for the feedback Spacebubble, good to know.

  7. #4707
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    I don't really see the benefit to solo healing Siegecrafter, could anyone clarify?

    the berserk timer is so far away I didn't know it even existed. The only dps checks on that fight is the add (before the aoe kills the raid) and the belts (just send enough people to kill it reliably). Due to mythic we have 1-2 new people in every week and the one thing I try to stress is that it's better not to cast for an extended amount of time (my example is the fire+ magnet phase, in which I say I'd rather see you go 20 seconds without a cast and survive than die to do a little more dps). -- and yet we still have somebody die every week in such a way that I'm sure it could've been survived if they had focused a bit more on avoiding stuff rather than dpsing.

  8. #4708
    So you can kill it in 4-5 belts and never get magnet or mines.

  9. #4709
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    So you can kill it in 4-5 belts and never get magnet or mines.
    This.

    Pushing for a 5 belt kill, makes the fight super short.

    Even if we aren't optimising it, still fairly easily solo healable for a while afterwards. Running Missiles + Laser just turns it into a single target burn with a safety dance. Expecting to see a kill relatively soon with the strat!

    Can't link at the moment as at work, but if you head to youtube and check out Energizer Siegecrafter Heroic (10-man HC crazy Russians), they show it nicely. The fact they have a lock and rogue going god mode helps - in their latest logs solo healing they were killing the boss in 3 belts or something silly.

  10. #4710
    So, I'm trying to figure out if I can solo the Blood Rage on Malk (10N, just to figure out if it's doable), without having either the CDR trinket or Rook's aoe dr trinket...and if so, how I would go about doing so. I of course take HA for that fight, and our (possible) healers are a druid, shaman, and priest (either disc or holy is possible, at least most of the time). Back of the napkin math shows that if I keep SotR up and either glyphed DP, barkskin (symb), or ironbark up, that brings the damage to ~720k (lower than that, since my sotr is stronger than 50%, but I'm keeping my numbers easy since I don't know my exact SotR value). AD would bring that to ~570k, which should be survivable (EF/SoI healing, plus, well, healers), and Guardian would make surviving it trivial. But without the CDR trinket, that'd only work for a single BR, as the cds wouldn't be up for the second. Any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  11. #4711
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    So, I'm trying to figure out if I can solo the Blood Rage on Malk (10N, just to figure out if it's doable), without having either the CDR trinket or Rook's aoe dr trinket...and if so, how I would go about doing so. I of course take HA for that fight, and our (possible) healers are a druid, shaman, and priest (either disc or holy is possible, at least most of the time). Back of the napkin math shows that if I keep SotR up and either glyphed DP, barkskin (symb), or ironbark up, that brings the damage to ~720k (lower than that, since my sotr is stronger than 50%, but I'm keeping my numbers easy since I don't know my exact SotR value). AD would bring that to ~570k, which should be survivable (EF/SoI healing, plus, well, healers), and Guardian would make surviving it trivial. But without the CDR trinket, that'd only work for a single BR, as the cds wouldn't be up for the second. Any ideas?
    Yes, i did it on H w/o cdr or rook's with basically HA carry for the first one. On normal shouldn't get 2nd one. And if you do, i think HA will be up for 2nd one so can just chain externals.
    (I did first one with HA + Guardian (no div prot, because i dun goofed and forgot))

  12. #4712
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    So, I'm trying to figure out if I can solo the Blood Rage on Malk (10N, just to figure out if it's doable), without having either the CDR trinket or Rook's aoe dr trinket...and if so, how I would go about doing so. I of course take HA for that fight, and our (possible) healers are a druid, shaman, and priest (either disc or holy is possible, at least most of the time). Back of the napkin math shows that if I keep SotR up and either glyphed DP, barkskin (symb), or ironbark up, that brings the damage to ~720k (lower than that, since my sotr is stronger than 50%, but I'm keeping my numbers easy since I don't know my exact SotR value). AD would bring that to ~570k, which should be survivable (EF/SoI healing, plus, well, healers), and Guardian would make surviving it trivial. But without the CDR trinket, that'd only work for a single BR, as the cds wouldn't be up for the second. Any ideas?
    a) 2 heal
    b) Have both tanks in for the second one?

  13. #4713
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    I solo'd it on 10HC without the CDR or AOER trinket easily - self healed as well.

    Remember that you've also got Sanctuary and Weakened Blows affecting the net damage taken. It's possible to do it without any externals whatsoever. On our first kill I also soaked the 2nd Blood Rage as well, with some externals that time (again on Heroic!).

    Make sure you refresh EF once the damage gets going and as long as you can survive each hit you'll ping back up to full health. Grab a Vengeance tracking weakaura so you know when you'll be able to get a ridiculous EF up/

    Calculation:

    Link to spreadsheet (can download the template and plug your own externals in if needed):
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

    Hope that helps Shows the timing I use and overlaps etc. Just remove the multipliers for the externals if you want to see net damage for purely your own CDs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebubble View Post
    a) 2 heal
    b) Have both tanks in for the second one?
    On Normal, having both tanks in for the 2nd one, even with the other tank on high Fatal Strike stacks, or both tanks on a few Fatal Strike stacks depending on whether you swap at 15 or a lower amount, that'd be fine too.

    Still, if you tank swap as the first Blood Rage ends so the other tank will enter the 2nd Blood Rage on 0 fatal strike stacks, they should be able to solo it as well. It's fairly trivial with good CD timing!

    If you are solo soaking BR, also absolutely no reason not to 2 heal.

  14. #4714
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Yes, i did it on H w/o cdr or rook's with basically HA carry for the first one. On normal shouldn't get 2nd one. And if you do, i think HA will be up for 2nd one so can just chain externals.
    (I did first one with HA + Guardian (no div prot, because i dun goofed and forgot))
    Our raid usually kills him slightly before, during, or just after the 2nd BR
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebubble View Post
    a) 2 heal
    b) Have both tanks in for the second one?
    Oh, we do usually 2 heal, I was just giving the possible healers we have to play with (have either shaman or priest go dps for 2 heal fights).
    wouldn't having the 2nd tank (with stacks) end up making that tank take more damage than I would alone without stacks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    I solo'd it on 10HC without the CDR or AOER trinket easily - self healed as well.

    Remember that you've also got Sanctuary and Weakened Blows affecting the net damage taken. It's possible to do it without any externals whatsoever. On our first kill I also soaked the 2nd Blood Rage as well, with some externals that time (again on Heroic!).

    Make sure you refresh EF once the damage gets going and as long as you can survive each hit you'll ping back up to full health. Grab a Vengeance tracking weakaura so you know when you'll be able to get a ridiculous EF up/

    Calculation:

    Link to spreadsheet (can download the template and plug your own externals in if needed):
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

    Hope that helps Shows the timing I use and overlaps etc. Just remove the multipliers for the externals if you want to see net damage for purely your own CDs.
    Thanks for that spreadsheet, I'll play around with it! But, isn't it 1.8M, not 2.4M? Or does wowhead have it wrong?

    I think I figured it out even without the spreadsheet, but I definitely appreciate it

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  15. #4715
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    That spreadsheet is for HC so just tamper with the variables to set it for Normal

  16. #4716
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    That spreadsheet is for HC so just tamper with the variables to set it for Normal
    Ahh alright, thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  17. #4717
    This was probably discusses in this thread already but: How would you rank the 4p and how many procs do you usually haver per fight? I suppose it's a 10-20% increase of the SotR uptime, is that right?
    I'm curious if I should consider switching hc offset shoulders and warforged helm to nhc set items.

  18. #4718
    Quote Originally Posted by ot4ku-mh View Post
    This was probably discusses in this thread already but: How would you rank the 4p and how many procs do you usually haver per fight? I suppose it's a 10-20% increase of the SotR uptime, is that right?
    I'm curious if I should consider switching hc offset shoulders and warforged helm to nhc set items.
    For me i use it every 30 sec, generally in that time i can get 6-7 depending on AS procs. (I think, never really noticed tbh)
    So it would be 1/7th to 1/6th increase in uptime, however at this point i would consider going for more secondaries into crit.

  19. #4719
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    <snip>
    regarding that thok's vs horridon's math, I have only horridon normal, which is 1581 haste, and thok normal, which is 7.5427 haste.
    taking that math, that magic number x would be 20960 - which is below the cap.

    do I understand it correctly, that if I reach 20961 or more haste WITH horridon's (and without thok's), switching to thok's instead of horridon's is a gain, right? or is this only true if I would have 20961 with thok's and without horridon's, which, in that case, would still be over cap?

  20. #4720
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    regarding that thok's vs horridon's math, I have only horridon normal, which is 1581 haste, and thok normal, which is 7.5427 haste.
    taking that math, that magic number x would be 20960 - which is below the cap.

    do I understand it correctly, that if I reach 20961 or more haste WITH horridon's (and without thok's), switching to thok's instead of horridon's is a gain, right? or is this only true if I would have 20961 with thok's and without horridon's, which, in that case, would still be over cap?
    No. Since when switching you're loosing all of that extra haste. The magic number is how much haste you need when you equip the thok to hit the softcap.
    In your version once you switch from thok from horridon you're losing all of the haste of horridons.
    So you need 20960 haste on all of your gear when you equip thok.

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